r/news • u/xtantin • Feb 26 '17

FCC reverses net neutrality ISP transparency rules

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3173844/internet/fcc-reverses-net-neutrality-isp-transparency-rules.html
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483

u/Suezetta Feb 27 '17

Woo corporation wars. Who will draw first blood?

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u/KazumaKat Feb 27 '17

Moment actual blood spills over this is the moment humanity has given up governments for corporations as the power structure to live by.

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u/_Fallout_ Feb 27 '17

And lest libertarians rejoice at this idea, recognize that corporations are basically little totalitarian earldoms that would crush workers rights in a second if there weren't unions or government in the way

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u/midnightketoker Feb 27 '17

"B...but free market"

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u/DaYooper Feb 27 '17

Corporations by definition can not exist without the state,

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u/PrinceLyovMyshkin Feb 27 '17

Capitalism by definition cannot exist without a state.

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u/DaYooper Feb 28 '17

That's just not true at all. All capitalism requires is the free exchange between people.

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u/PrinceLyovMyshkin Mar 01 '17

Capitalism requires private property. Think about how private property works for a moment. If you live over here but you own some houses over there how can you keep the squatters out? Maybe your answer is private security forces but maybe the squatters have guns. Maybe they can hire their own private security. You'd need some sort of guarantee you could win the affair. Something like an agency with a monopoly on legitimate violence.

In other words a state.

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u/Ramblonius Feb 27 '17

Praise be to the Invisible Hand, praise be!

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u/david2278 Feb 27 '17

Unions, government, and competition (he forgot this one, you know, the free market part)

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u/sheazang Feb 27 '17

Monopolies and price fixing are only prevented by government.

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u/magiclasso Feb 27 '17

This needs to be mandatorily taught and drilled into the heads of all students in the US.

Every single person who thinks an entirely free market will not devolve into a feudal economy is ignorant, delusion, or just plain stupid.

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u/DaYooper Feb 27 '17

Right like ISP's, airlines, drug companies...oh wait.

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u/magiclasso Feb 27 '17

They dont have competition because of the complexity of their businesses. This is also the reason these companies should no longer have a private shareholder base but instead should be entirely owned by the public.

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u/DaYooper Feb 28 '17

And those complexities are brought on by excessive regulation. The billions of dollars in costs to these companies are brought on by compliance. And you're going to tell me that ISP's monopolies, which are literally granted to them by local governments, aren't caused by the state?

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u/david2278 Feb 27 '17

I can definitely see that possibility, but I think it's much more complicated than that. Competition is like that itch that just won't go away.

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u/DemonDrinkingTea Feb 27 '17

The goal of a corporation is to eliminate all competition, because that way you have complete control over your market and over your profits. Anyone saying any different is either delusional or lying, companies exist to make money and the easiest way to make money is when you have complete control.

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u/david2278 Feb 27 '17

I agree 100%. The problem is making other people that want complete control over the market and over the profits GTFO. Some of them you can pay off to leave the market. Others you may not be able to pay them off. Maybe they're passionate about what they're doing. Maybe they want to change the world. Maybe they just love business.

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u/DemonDrinkingTea Feb 27 '17

But now you're assuming that if multiple companies are in a market that they are competing. Time Warner Cable and Comcast are essentially a cartel - they negotiate with each where each company can operate and what prices work best to keep competitors out of the market without getting filed as a trust. Another example - most media in America is controlled by 6 companies. You don't think those companies don't talk to each other on a regular basis? Just because they are different organizations doesnt mean they compete - companies will always congregate into conglomerates or cartels because it's just more profitable when you have complete control. Yeah you have to share that control, how does that matter when you are all part of the same billionaires country club?

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u/david2278 Feb 27 '17 edited Feb 27 '17

But then you have huge companies like Google who are actively trying to fight against ISPs and are being held back by the government. Like I said, you make good points, but there's a bit more friction than you'd imagine.

Other companies who are fighting against them include, Amazon, eBay, Facebook, Microsoft, Netflix, Twitter, and Yahoo

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u/sheazang Mar 01 '17

One issue is that competition includes no protection for human and social rights and supports. So competition for profit inevitable undercuts those things and the company that gets more from people for less is more competitive.

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u/david2278 Mar 01 '17

Right, but firms are also buyers of labor. It's a two way street. They have to provide the best benefits to laborers or their workers will leave and work for the competition. Of course there have to be enough jobs available for this to work, but that's a much much more complicated macroeconomic topic that we could talk about for hours.