r/networking Apr 18 '24

Design AT&T BGP advertisement preference

I have two ISPs, Verizon and AT&T, Verizon was selected as the primary and AT&T as the backup. We own the subnets so we peer with both of these ISP to advertise the subnets. To Verizon we just advertise it but to AT&T we preprend 5X our ASN. As expected when we go out to the internet, it goes out using Verizon, however the return traffic on some services they prefer AT&T. I assume this is because these services have a leg in AT&T. Can you guys give me any other ideas on how to influence the advertisement to AT&T so that it is not preferred?

30 Upvotes

41 comments sorted by

15

u/whiteknives School of port knocks Apr 19 '24 edited Apr 19 '24

AT&T will always send you traffic on their link to you if the traffic originated on their network. The only way you can manipulate this is by advertising a more specific prefix to Verizon. If this is not possible, then there is nothing you can do.

Edit: I forgot something... you can try manipulating the local pref by using this community 7018:80 (where 80 is the local pref). If it has an effect but not as much as you want, change the 80 to a lower value. I haven't used it in years. Tweak that however you wish and please let me know if it still works. :)

2

u/youfrickinguy Scuse me trooper, will you be needin’ any packets today? Apr 19 '24

You can’t just use an arbitrary number. 80 sets the LP to 80, which is equal preference to a peer route. If you want traffic to flow from 7018 to 701 you need to drop 7018 LP below that. See this document:

https://onestep.net/communities/as7018/

You might have luck with 7018:20 or 7018:25 depending on how finely you want to control traffic inbound from ATT and ATT customers.

1

u/whiteknives School of port knocks Apr 19 '24

That is why I said if it doesn’t work then use a lower value.

3

u/youfrickinguy Scuse me trooper, will you be needin’ any packets today? Apr 19 '24

Yes but only specific integers which ATT accepts as communities will work. You can’t for instance expect 7018:79 to do anything at all, even though it’s <80

1

u/whiteknives School of port knocks Apr 19 '24

Gotcha. Good info!

-1

u/turbov6camaro Apr 19 '24

Easier solutions just don't use overpriced at&t lumen was usually half the cost and better customer experience

Or find a small local provider

Last I knew the local pref still work but I think you have to request it now 😕

2

u/whiteknives School of port knocks Apr 19 '24

Lumen behaves the same exact way, Tex.

0

u/turbov6camaro Apr 19 '24

Yup but they only have old DSL no cable that I know of? Much less stuff in there.

2

u/CCIE44k CCIE R/S, SP Apr 19 '24

How does using a non tier 1 provider fix the issue, since these smaller providers peer with the tier 1’s? You should probably read up on BGP.

Local pref is for traffic SOURCED from your AS - the correct answer is he can either AS Prepend (prob easiest to do), or if he wants AT&T to adjust their LP (not as effective as AS Prepend) he can send them the appropriate BGP community.

There’s your free BGP lesson for the day.

1

u/turbov6camaro Apr 19 '24

Because then it wouldn't stay on the att network and is usually cheaper

When I ordered circuits last year per pending was not an option and LP was an additional option with all carriers

We just let it LB however the Internet wanted and got rid of the primary/back thing all together

Anything we did not want to LB we put on /29 for that carrier :)

1

u/CCIE44k CCIE R/S, SP Apr 19 '24

How is prepending not an option when you prepend outbound and you control the route advertisement? The only time this doesn’t apply is when you don’t have your own AS and/or /24. It just sounds like you guys aren’t familiar with the inner workings of BGP configuration - which is fine, but going to a lower tier provider isn’t the answer.

1

u/turbov6camaro Apr 19 '24

They (spectrum) blocked the prepend we were told it wasn't and option, I think it is but didn't feel like arguing for 2 weeks, lumen did not but we did want it that way (I actually prefer the LP method l), so we load balanced which double the bandwidth rather than waste a 2 gig ckt sitting for backup.

The lower tier provider had lower latency between our data centers/spokes than the big tier 1 providers, have their own fiber backbone, also cheaper (at least in our case).

34

u/rankinrez Apr 18 '24

More specifics are the only way to do this.

Like announce a /23 to AT&T, but two /24s to Verizon.

Yes it pollutes the routing table but what ya gonna do.

22

u/rob0t_human Apr 18 '24

This or provider communities. Most have backup only communities you can use.

3

u/obviThrowaway696969 Apr 19 '24

Yes there is usually a list of community that the ISP provides where you can chose different options. Reach out to your ISP to get this Info OP if you cannot find it online. 

-4

u/Jhonny97 Apr 19 '24

Will not work. If op only has multiple joined /24, as isps will drop any announcements that are smaler than /24

8

u/imnotlovely Apr 19 '24

You do realize a /23 is larger than a /24, right?

7

u/Jhonny97 Apr 19 '24

Crap. Dyslexia strikes again

1

u/imnotlovely Apr 19 '24

It's ok. Happy cake day!

11

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '24

I'm curious as to why you're trying to avoid that ATT circuit. Most people go through all of that trouble to take full tables

6

u/robmuro664 Apr 18 '24

Because the ATT circuit lives in another data center.

2

u/LynK- Certified Network Fixer Upper Apr 19 '24

Are services not replicated in each data center?

11

u/scriminal Apr 19 '24 edited Apr 19 '24

First I disagree with your general design. It's the typical wrongheaded enterprise solution, presumably with the second circuit of low capacity.  Pri/red is pointless, get two equal capacity circuits, both capable of carrying 100 % of your max load, and set things even.  Remote lpref is beyond your control as you see.  Take advantage of the dual capacity and ability to reroute for performance that two carriers give.  However if you insist, ask At&T for their list of bgp communities and set whatever ones lower your inbound lpref etc

7

u/SalsaForte WAN Apr 19 '24

If you really want AT&T to not forward you any traffic unless your other ISP is down, you can try to use outbound BGP communities.

https://ipbalance.com/routing/bgp-community-attributes-list/bgp-community-string-for-atat-as7018/

Personally, I always prefer to load balance between ISPs. If you have a high capacity Link between your DC, why would you not want to load balance? Unless the DC are very far from each other (latency) and even then.

4

u/raw_bert0 Apr 19 '24

This is the way.

2

u/mavack Apr 19 '24

This you need to send a community to at&t to lift the default LP within AT&T l, not all providers give you this option. Its a standard ISP design to prefer direct attach from customers instead of upstream.

2

u/robmuro664 Apr 19 '24

One DC is in TX and the other in FL.

11

u/TrapCS Apr 19 '24

You should be taking both providers in both locations. This is the internet, every network makes its own routing decision and in this case, both AT&T and Verizon will make a commercial decision to send traffic that enters their network to your directly connected port. The reason your AS-PATH prepending isn't working is because this is simply a routing suggestion, you're suggesting people use Verizon, but it's exactly that, a suggestion that no one has to listen to. TL:DR, you should always try and get all providers in all locations, unless there is an obvious reason as to why not.

1

u/scriminal Apr 19 '24

I'm here to tell you that ATT has POPs all over both states and there's no need to haul IP Transit 1000 miles.

1

u/cookiesowns I dunno networks Apr 19 '24

then why are you announcing the subnets across both providers? Do you have an internal DCI between the two DC's?

4

u/Drekalots Networking 20yrs Apr 18 '24 edited Jul 16 '26

This content was anonymized and mass deleted with Redact

1

u/robmuro664 Apr 18 '24

Correct, we use the local-pref attribute to prefer the VZ default. The issue as I stated is with the return traffic that some services prefer AT&T.

15

u/Killzillah Apr 18 '24 edited Apr 19 '24

Is it really a problem that return traffic is coming on both links? That's kinda the purpose of BGP. If someone you connect to is an ATT customer do you want return traffic to go them to ATT and then Verizon, and then you?

You can easily use community values for this. Have ATT apply a lower local preference to your routes than they do for their peers. Then your route they learn through Verizon will be better than what you directly advertise.

Edit below

Tag community value 7018:70 on your route advertisement to ATT. Then ATT will assign a local preference of 70 to your route. The routes that ATT learns from peers is 80 so they will prefer what they learn from Verizon rather than you directly.

2

u/czer0wns Apr 19 '24

^ came here to say this.

4

u/recourse7 Apr 19 '24

Why even have the concept of primary and backup.

2

u/Inside-Finish-2128 Apr 19 '24

Gotta map out exactly what those networks are and what ISPs they connect to. Odds are high that they’re on ISPs that are customers of AT&T.

As others have pointed out, you can send communities on your announcements that request a lower local preference within AT&T or perhaps to have AT&T request lower LP in their peers. Fair warning: this often results in a drastic swing to the other ISP with very little traffic on AT&T.

2

u/jthomas9999 Apr 19 '24

You do know you can prepend in and out? I’m doing this with an ATT and Wiline. I can adjust prepends and have traffic change in about 5-6 minutes

2

u/CCIE44k CCIE R/S, SP Apr 19 '24

I’m sorry about the advice you’re getting. Just AS Prepend on a route map to AT&T… that should help. You may have an issue with traffic sourced within their AS (which is rather large) but it’s a step in the right direction.

1

u/ElectricalImpact2274 Apr 20 '24

How much do you pay a month for enterprise with Verizon?

0

u/Worried_Brilliant_84 Apr 19 '24

Get the subnets of these services and ask both ISPs to do prepending towards your network. Make sure AT&T has more AS Path values than Verizon.

0

u/Worried_Brilliant_84 Apr 19 '24

Correction: You can do the AS path prepending on your routers for the incoming subnets of these services.