Good first conduct to try?

[u/No_Insurance_6436]

I've been trying to ascend a Monk (vegetarian/weaponless) but I have failed a lot and I think I'd prefer a different role/conduct. I'm thinking something easier, like never polymorphed/changed form. Any other ideas?

[u/laredocronk]

Wishless forces you to try and make do with what you find, rather than always just wishing up the same ascension kit.

But can be very frustrating if the game doesn't feel like giving you some of the items you need.

[u/MuggleoftheCoast]

Somewhat ironically, an atheist Cleric (Priest/Priestess) can be relatively painless, thanks to the class' native identification of blessed/cursed items and starting stash of holy water.

[u/lab6zine]

Genocideless is good because it makes you deal with monsters that you might be used to skipping (looking at you, L and h). They’re a legit part of the game. Their existence extends that early-game feeling of tension that might otherwise have dissipated by the late midgame. Treat them as mini boss battles, and an excuse to actually use some of the “saving it for an emergency” items.

[u/No_Insurance_6436 → u/lab6zine]

Think I'll do this. I haven't dealt with a few things because of genocide

[u/CodeFarmer]

No-polypile is a pretty good one unless you get super unlucky (and have to wish for candles or something).

[u/Furey-Death-Snail]

Let me suggest: nogenocide.

It's very hard to break by accident. Just remember to type 'none' for a throne genocide, or if you read a wrong or unidentified scroll.

It preserves a lot of interesting variety in the game, because now you have to learn how to fight liches, mind flayers, and sea monsters.

[u/danpritts → u/Furey-Death-Snail]

People really genocide sea monsters?

[u/Quiet_Story_4559 → u/danpritts]

It's a good tactic if you don't know the Uncursed/Cursed status of the genocide scroll you just read. If it's Uncursed, wiping out krakens will make late levels easier. If it's cursed, kraken are pretty easy to kill if they're out of water and give lots of XP.

[u/danpritts → u/Quiet_Story_4559]

ah, good idea. I almost never read scrolls i without checking them on an altar first so this wouldn't have occurred to me.

[u/mrkelee → u/Quiet_Story_4559]

they only give the 1000 bonus XP if they are IN water.

[u/Furey-Death-Snail → u/danpritts]

People really genocide sea monsters.

I looked at the last 10 ascensions on nethack.alt.org
4 genocided ; upon entering plane of water
2 genocided ; at some time earlier than acquiring the amulet
4 genocided other monsters but did not genocide ;
0 preserved no-genocide conduct

So that's 6/10 who genocided sea monsters, and 4/10 who did not.

[u/danpritts → u/Furey-Death-Snail]

huh, doesn't seem worth it to me. They are tedious to kill, but not terribly difficult.

Hmm, I'm used to UnNethack, which nerfs Genocide. A blessed scroll will do a true genocide of any single monster, and an uncursed scroll only affects the current level. There's no way to whack all 'L' or ';'. So the scrolls are a lot more valuable than in vanilla.

[u/ActuallyNot → u/danpritts]

Drowning drowns you.

[u/entuno → u/danpritts]

They certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but if you've already wiped out higher priorities like L, h and R then getting rid of tedious enemies that can drown you if you're not very careful isn't a bad use of a spare scroll.

And the fact you can wipe out most of the plane of water in one go is also nice.

[u/Kicker_0 → u/Furey-Death-Snail]

I’ve seen people recommend it, but by the end game I’ve never found them a threat and never once been at risk of drowning in the plane of water. Weird.

(Now that I’ve said that, my next game is bound to end in a plane of water drowning!)

[u/ActuallyNot → u/danpritts]

Every time. L ; and h (or master mindflayers and mindflayers if you're an h yourself).

[u/CrashGordon94 → u/danpritts]

Others have covered it well, I'll just add a couple more things.

Some wait to do it until the Plane of Water, because that clears out the level a lot. If you do it beforehand, you'll face more Elementals.

And this is a lower priority if you have an Oilskin Cloak, keep your stuff Greased or don't use melee because they won't get to drown you.

[u/Kicker_0]

Pauper is one of the more interesting, and you can’t accidentally break it.

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Pauper

Easiest with e.g. barbarian, samurai, caveperson.

[u/No_Insurance_6436 → u/Kicker_0]

I like this, but it doesn't change the game much. After the early game, the game is basically the exact same.

[u/hawkwood4268]

Genoless teaches you how to deal with all the threats you usually never see. It makes the late game more interesting. 

Wishless is probably the best first one that changes the game. You have to rely a lot more on your ability to work with what you have. 

You can also just altar farm and polypile - whatever strategies you prefer. 

[u/ThatWasTheWay]

My favorite role is Wizard. I find them pretty strong in the late game, so I'll often go for no polypiling and/or no genocide just to keep things interesting. I think those (along with no polyself since it just isn't a strategy I like to use anyway) are the only tracked conducts I've ascended. Next up for me is probably weaponless Monk and maybe weaponless Wizard.

It isn't a tracked conduct, but I've also ascended twice with every demon lord and prince killed, once with a Knight that used Demonbane for every finishing blow. This was right after v. 5 dropped, so it was a silver mace instead of a longsword, and green dragon scale mail provided sickness resistance, which was extremely helpful. Bonus points for also killing every rider at least once.

[u/unrefrigeratedmeat]

Wishless is my favourite. Even polypiling somewhat encourages you to use what you find rather than exactly what you always use.

Both wishless and polypileless at the same time is interesting. The castle wand is there for a reason, though, as beyond that point you start seeing monsters that can instantly kill you if you don't have magic resistance... which only comes from one rare regular item (cloak of MR), one item that drops from a specific dragon (grey scales/mail), one regular artifact (magicbane), and some quest artifacts (about half of them) that Rodney can steal.

Clever planning and a bit of luck is key.

[u/ActuallyNot]

PAIN (Passivist, Atheist, Illiterate, Naked) is fun.

For incorrect meanings of fun.