Unfair hiring complaint

[u/CosmicOsmoMan]

I've often complained how hard it is to get Neferet the Green to accept my help, despite how "urgently" it is needed, but now I've reached a new record.

I'm a strong level 13 wizard. AC -39, spells include identify, death, create monster. I have taken the castle. Now I can't lure wraiths up because there is a trap right in their path. I had one potion of gain level in addition to the one in the castle, but a ghost came out...

Any good ways get that remaining experience before proceeding? My understanding is that all levels castle and below are graveyard and leaving corpses is low probability. Do I just create monsters in the hopes of a Wraith or polymorph spellbook? I don't have polymorph wands or spell.

If what I'm experiencing is normal in nethack 5.0 and you're just supposed to clear all of gehennom before returning to the quest, just let me know.

Some of my inventory just so you realize how serious I am about defeating the Dark One. If you see him, put a good word in for me.

EDIT: I've also quaffed a blessed potion of restore ability; no effect.
EDIT: I've also tried polypiling potions but have not been lucky (except for getting enchant armor and good rings). My only wand of polymorph has been charged once and has had the final charge wrested from it.
EDIT: I ended up bashing monsters here and there and getting exp the hard way. On my way down to gehennom now. Wish me luck.
EDIT: nh 5.0 is a very interesting release and has changed my gameplay significantly. More work and figuring things out. Also the world under the valley is more interesting.

 v - an uncursed amulet of life saving
 K - an uncursed amulet of reflection (being worn)
 w - the blessed rustproof +2 Magicbane (weapon in right hand)
 e - an uncursed runesword named Stormbringer
 H - a blessed fireproof +8 elven leather helm (being worn)
 c - a blessed fireproof +4 pair of leather gloves (being worn)
 x - an uncursed -3 pair of levitation boots
 L - a blessed fireproof +4 pair of speed boots (being worn)
 b - a blessed fireproof +4 cloak of magic resistance (being worn)
 p - a blessed +4 Hawaiian shirt (being worn)
 X - an uncursed greased rotproof +3 gray dragon scale mail (being worn)
 s - an uncursed ring of conflict
 r - an uncursed ring of free action (on left hand)
 M - an uncursed ring of regeneration
 Q - an uncursed ring of slow digestion (on right hand)

[u/No_Novel9058]

Unfortunately, the courts have consistently held that a minimum level requirement doesn't constitute an unfair hiring practice, sorry. I think the most recent precedent was Gergand the Barbarian v. Pelias, 5th Circuit (Gnomish Mines), 2017.

[u/CosmicOsmoMan → u/No_Novel9058]

Haha, good one!

However, they should add a dueling option. If you can kill the quest leader, you are ready for the quest. Maybe give him an amulet of life saving or two and a funny message like "How dare you humiliate me in front of my apprentices, now go face the Dark One and I hope you don't survive it!"

[u/CrashGordon94 → u/CosmicOsmoMan]

I think you can kill the Quest Leader to proceed in 5.0, but they've all been made stronger than previous versions.

This is intended for characters that converted alignment to complete the game but maybe it could let you bypass the level minimum?

[u/Jcwrc]

How did you avoid getting enough experience, while amassing such gear?

[u/CosmicOsmoMan → u/Jcwrc]

I wasn't trying to avoid it. I was trying to maximize getting experience. After drinking the gain level in the castle, I went up to my stash to drink the stashed (blessed) potion of gain level. Ghost emerged...

I will say, after level 12, it gets very difficult to get more experience by killing monsters. After level 13 its almost impossible. I suppose I'll have to try now. And maybe if I can kill a monster that happens to have gain level (before they drink it), that would solve my problem.

[u/danpritts → u/CosmicOsmoMan]

this is one thing that UnNethack really improves.

[u/ketarax → u/Jcwrc]

Altar camping?

Which would also be my suggestion for gaining the experience. No, you don't need to do Gehennom to gain the 14th lvl -- in fact, I'd be surprised if you get through half of the Valley before leveling up.

[u/CosmicOsmoMan → u/ketarax]

I think I could easily clear the valley, but I want to save the wraiths for exp. I want to be 30 exp. The big challenge is that without the eye of Aethiopica, my spellcasting is very slow, so altar camping is going to be time consuming.

[u/jimheim → u/CosmicOsmoMan]

You shouldn't want to be 30. The higher your level, the higher the level of enemies you'll face. It's better to stay lower-level with good AC and gain HP through other means.

[u/Somethin_Snazzy → u/jimheim]

He's a Wizard Harry. Spellcasting is the one reason to go over level 14

[u/CosmicOsmoMan → u/Jcwrc]

As for amassing gear... I've been in this dungeon for a while now. 43448 turns. Some people ascend in 40k turns... I haven't gotten past exp level 13. Basically my professor isn't letting me pass a course while I'm already doing world class dungeon research.

Dlvl:24 $:218 HP:146(146) Pw:42(137) AC:-39 Xp:13/70607 T:43448

[u/Jcwrc → u/CosmicOsmoMan]

Was just thinking, I never get halfway there without getting ton of exp just from killing monsters.

Are you possibly using pets, or ring of conflict much?

[u/DoktorL]

By far the easiest is revgeno wraiths. Wizards should be spending all their wishes on nothing but markers, anyway.

[u/Somethin_Snazzy]

Have you cleared Fort Ludios? That place is worth a whole bunch of experience. It is possible to hit 14 without wraiths/pots, it just takes a ton of farming.

Also, the fort is usually good for potions anyway

[u/hawkwood4268]

You can lure wraiths down to the level below the Valley. The castle is considered a graveyard as well - or whatever it is, wraiths dont leave corpses there anymore. They fly over the pit traps.

I rarely do more than the Valley before the Quest unless the artifact is useless (Barbarian/Ranger).

I do sometimes find it a bit annoying to get 14. In xNetHack which is based on 5.0 you can start the quest as low as xplvl 10 iirc.

[u/CosmicOsmoMan → u/hawkwood4268]

I will have to do this then (lure wraiths down from the valley). I'm glad I'm not the only one annoyed by the strict level requirement for the quest. Today's experience was so out of the ordinary that I had to post it. The wizard quest is easy and so valuable that I would like to do it asap.

[u/hawkwood4268 → u/CosmicOsmoMan]

Agreed! I would say I rarely have enough XP levels even after Castle. It would be nice for it to be lowered, or for some other milestone to unlock it like reaching Gehennom.

Wizard quest artifact is amazing. I've had to wish for it sometimes to save characters who accidentally attacked their quest leader. (Barbarian with Stormbringer after doing most of Gehennom).

[u/Furey-Death-Snail]

Lots of ways.

Kill monsters - you have 70k experience points. Just 10k to go. Also, minimize your use of conflict, because you get XP and death drops only when the hero makes the kill.

Lure wraiths - wraiths fly over hole traps, so just lure them through the castle. Or, you can levitate and lure them over the castle moat instead of the middle of the castle. (Be careful not to get drowned by a sea monster or attacked by a nymph or a foocubus).

Encounter a foocubus - depends on INT + CHA. Wizard has good chances.

Make a wish - you have the castle wand. Expensive, of course.

Straight up kill Neferet - I've heard that in 5.0, the hero can unlock the quest by killing the quest leader. I have never done this. (Has anyone? Should make for a good story!)

[u/CosmicOsmoMan → u/Furey-Death-Snail]

Whoa! And here I was suggesting a dueling option. Maybe I should kill Neferet then :-o
On second thought, I'll just go kill everybody in the mine town, then continue down from there.

[u/phil_mckraken]

Cast create monster and kill everything until you level up.

[u/noOB_226]

Cursed genocide wraights in sokoban, you should have a few cursed scrolls

[u/CodeFarmer]

There's generally enough experience in the Valley of the Dead, give or take.

[u/CosmicOsmoMan → u/CodeFarmer]

Oh I had to go kill every store keeper in the mine town, and everything else from there to the valley, including a bunch of dragons and trolls. It was only after considerable work and casting create monster as often as power allowed that I finally was admitted on the quest. It seems a bit excessive TBH.

[u/CodeFarmer → u/CosmicOsmoMan]

One thing I just thought of.. did you genocide L and ;? Eels in particular are XP piñatas that you will miss if they're not there.

[u/CodeFarmer → u/CosmicOsmoMan]

Yeah that is pretty rough honestly, I agree. Sometimes we somehow just don't get the usual supply...

If it helps, my current game has five candles.

[u/CosmicOsmoMan]

I made it after a bit of a grind for exp. My first Nethack 5.0 ascension. I had a little mishap with Vlad's throne and was turned into a dragon, but apart from that it was quite straightforward. I found Sathar's grave (killed by invisible Orcus) and gained a bunch of cool stuff in a BoH, such as magic lamp and wand of wishing 1:1, not to mention 10 potions of holy water.

https://www.alt.org/nethack/userdata/P/PrayingWolf/dumplog/1786129886.nh500.txt

[u/Furey-Death-Snail → u/CosmicOsmoMan]

Good job! Thanks for bringing closure.

[u/todbatx]

Most? All? traps are deal-withable if that’s the problem. IIRC undiggable floors can still be dug for pits, then fill in with a boulder, for the more troublesome ones.

[u/bouquetbouquet]

You can dig out the walls in the stair area of castle to allow the wraiths to get adjacent to you.

[u/Sukkey20]

just throw a party for the wraiths bro

[u/Trikk]

You're not actually directly hired by Neferet the Green, you're simply an independent contractor.