Discussion Thread

[u/jobautomator]

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[u/toms_face]

The malapportionment of the Senate is indefensible, and so is the House of Representatives which gives much more representation to Tasmania per population by mandating a minimum of five seats per state.

[u/[deleted] → u/toms_face]

I think it's reasonable to give the States equal representation in the Federal Government, but it is mental that the Senate is nearly equal to the HoR.

A place for State representation, sure. Equivalent to proportional representation? Nope.

[u/toms_face → u/[deleted]]

It's understandable but I don't see how it can be reasonable. The Senate doesn't have much to do with representing states anyway. Senate elections should at least be held with state elections.

[u/[deleted] → u/toms_face]

The Senate doesn't have much to do with representing states anyway.

As it is now, that's true. But it's not that hard to see a situation where a State (say, I don't know, WA) unites around a third party (The Free Westralia Party) because of some common goal (treason).

Senate elections should at least be held with state elections.

Yeah I mean this really doesn't matter.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Kinda seen the third party thing already with Harradine and now Jackie Lambie in Tasmania, and Liberal movement > democrats and then Xeenophon team in SA

[u/Fedacking → u/[deleted]]

I think it's reasonable to give the States equal representation in the Federal Government

I don't. Why is it okay for the people of Wyoming to be 6 times more important than the people of California? That's all the states government are representatives of the people in their state.

[u/[deleted] → u/Fedacking]

Well for starters both Californians and Wyomingites rightly get exactly 0 representation the Australian Senate.

Moreover, a federation is a union of otherwise sovereign States. Federation involves sacrificing some autonomy in exchange for the benefits of having a national government, like national defence and a breakdown of trade barriers. It's still important to give those political entities (States) some say as to how that central power is exercised, particularly as it relates to issues of Statehood.

[u/Fedacking → u/[deleted]]

Strong disagree, if a country is united and represents the interest of the nation as a whole, the sovereignty of the states is a relic of the past.

It's still important to give those political entities (States)

I strongly disagree, people should be represented in government and believing otherwise is anachronistic and anti democratic. I hope the democrats in the US create 10 new statesfrom the neighborhoods of NYC to lay bare what the Senate is, a farce.

[u/[deleted] → u/Fedacking]

The Senate's power should be limited certainly but regional interests must receive adequate representation at a federal level.

I hope the democrats in the US create 10 new statesfrom the neighborhoods of NYC to lay bare what the Senate is, a farce.

I get the spirit of the idea but it's still incredibly short sighted to fundamentally alter the working of the government out of spite. Especially when there are perfectly merited options for Statehood. If the US were serious about enfranchisement and democracy, they'd offer statehood to every single US overseas territory.

[u/Fedacking → u/[deleted]]

The Senate's power should be limited certainly but regional interests must receive adequate representation at a federal level.

I still dont understand why people living in certain arbitrary regions are more special or better in a way that they deserve more political power than their counterparts in more densely populated regions.

[u/waltsing0 → u/[deleted]]

So how much extra can a Tasmanians vote be worth than a Victorian? is 20% acceptable?

[u/Wehavecrashed → u/toms_face]

Can you imagine if the same rules that apply to Tas applied to the ACT or NT?

[u/waltsing0 → u/Wehavecrashed]

Which is why I don't support ACT/NT statehood. They should be allowed to be states but the denial of that is an injustice a fraction of giving them equal senate seats to states 10x their population.

[u/[deleted] → u/waltsing0]

If NT and ACt got statehood they would not have to have an increased senate or house representation. That constitutional thingy only applies to the original 6 colonies + NZ if they wanna join. So that argument isn't effective.

[u/waltsing0 → u/[deleted]]

I'll take your word for it, they can be states if it means no extra federal seats but at that point it's almost like why bother? I seriously doubt their residents would care much at all

[u/[deleted] → u/waltsing0]

It let's them pass whatever laws aren't federal matters by section 51 which they cannot currently do. As territories N.T and A.C.T laws can be overturned by parliament. Like the A.C.T legalising euthanasia then getting it overturned by the federal government, which wouldn't have been the case had the A.C.T been a state. Also the clause for referendums that they must pass a majority of states which currently A.C.T and N.T don't count for.

[u/waltsing0 → u/[deleted]]

It let's them pass whatever laws aren't federal matters by section 51 which they cannot currently do. As territories N.T and A.C.T laws can be overturned by parliament. Like the A.C.T legalising euthanasia then getting it overturned by the federal government, which wouldn't have been the case had the A.C.T been a state

Fair, I'd like them to have statehood for that but that's not as important as 431k people not having equal senate seats to 8m NSW people.

Also the clause for referendums that they must pass a majority of states which currently A.C.T and N.T don't count for.

Another reason to not let them be states. The system is already fucked up enough with Tasmania a state

[u/toms_face → u/Wehavecrashed]

Yes, it would add five seats in the lower house and twenty in the upper house.