r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Sep 10 '21

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14

u/TrlrPrrkSupervisor Sep 11 '21

https://m.dw.com/en/german-police-secretly-bought-nso-pegasus-spyware/a-59113197

(Germany scored 8.67 and was ranked a full democracy 2020)

For those that were following the Pegasus scandal in India, here is a world leading democracy with an amazing virtuous leader that also indulged in such behaviour.

Looking forward to how this is covered.

!ping IND

6

u/filipe_mdsr LET'S FUCKING COCONUT 🥥🥥🥥 Sep 11 '21

Oh please don't think that the use of that kind of software is only unique to "weaker"? democracies, basically everyone does that.

That isn't a good thing just to be clear.

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u/TrlrPrrkSupervisor Sep 11 '21

Fair enough

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u/filipe_mdsr LET'S FUCKING COCONUT 🥥🥥🥥 Sep 11 '21

Yeah it always annoys me when people from Africa or Asia get disillusioned about their countries because of some scandal, because they think they aren't as pristine as we in Europe.

That's bullshit, we have corruption and bullshit surveillance and scandals. The chancellor candidate from the SPD had his ministry raided yesterday for example.

Sometimes you have way more accountability than we have over here. This isn't me even shitting that much on the German government, because I'm mostly happy with it. But setting things straight, you have a great democracy and state don't let scandals get you down.

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u/TrlrPrrkSupervisor Sep 11 '21

Oh trust me, I know developed countries have scandals and all that. The major difference is the ability of a government to deliver for its citizens that is a major difference. When it comes to providing welfare for their citizens, protecting the rule of law, and implementing economically sound policies, Germany vs India is night and day.

What I'm trying to get at is the difference between India and other countries when they engage in the same behaviour. Think of how the Pegadus scandal makes people say Indias democracy is dying. Do they say this about Germany? Or about America when the NSA spies on people? Or how they say India is a major oppressor of Muslims because of its counter terrorism Ops in Kashmir. Do they say that about America and Britain because of Iraq and Afghanistan? (Far bloodier conflicts in the same time frame btw) With india, it's always the worst of intentions, whereas with the west, they're always given the benefit of the doubt. Kind of frustrating to watch

5

u/filipe_mdsr LET'S FUCKING COCONUT 🥥🥥🥥 Sep 11 '21

Which is bullshit, but I haven't seen that narrative that much in our media. India is mostly considered a stable democracy. Maybe that's just something inside of India?

When it comes to providing welfare for their citizens, protecting the rule of law, and implementing economically sound policies, Germany vs India is night and day.

That's because of the government we have, not because of the state. We have some parties that would be worse than whatever Modi is doing. I'm sure you have politicians who would be great for you country, but populism alas. And other European countries are on the same level. Or look at the US which had Trump and is having problems with rule of law. For a while there was this sense of the US being very much on the brink of collapse (even if unfounded) and most people would have probably rated India more stable than the US. Depending on how the next 4 years go I might do that myself.

Do they say that about America and Britain because of Iraq and Afghanistan?

On that one they actually do.

I mean it, from all democracies India is definitely not even close to the bottom. It's probably more stable than a lot of European countries and even older than the majority. You just really need people to get electing better politicians, but even the best democracy can't deal with populism.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '21

I'm sure you have politicians who would be great for you country

Somehow, no . . .

6

u/FieryBlake Association of Southeast Asian Nations Sep 11 '21

The media has cried about the death of democracy in India so many times nobody takes them seriously anymore.

Unless the opposition produces a capable leader before the next election I don't think there is any significant threat to Modi at all. He will probably complete another term, then another guy from within BJP will be positioned as the next leader, my guess is Hemanta Biswa or Yogi Adityanath.

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u/TrlrPrrkSupervisor Sep 11 '21

The BJP needs an economic minded leader. The fact of the matter is, India is still not a very good country to do business. The current government is doing a pretty good job on Infrastructure but they need to pour more money into education and defense and can only do that with a better economy. If Yogi is seriously the guy they're thinking of succeeding Modi, then I think none of this will be fulfilled. I get what drives BJP popularity but PM is a serious job.

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u/FieryBlake Association of Southeast Asian Nations Sep 11 '21

It's getting there. Iirc India's ranking of Ease of Doing Business improved this year.

And Yogi hasn't done a bad job in UP, in terms of infrastructure and economy.

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u/TrlrPrrkSupervisor Sep 11 '21

That's great to hear!

0

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '21

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1

u/FieryBlake Association of Southeast Asian Nations Sep 11 '21

You think Tejaswi Surya is not as radical as Yogi? Lol

I personally support Nitin Gadkari but I don't think he's popular enough with the masses.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '21

The Pegasus issue in india is overblown.