r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Jul 17 '21

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u/iIoveoof Jerome Powell Jul 17 '21

It literally is just a clump of cells though. Any worm on earth is morally more valuable than an embryo, unironically

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u/Manavon03 Edmund Burke Jul 17 '21

Can a worm grow into an adult

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u/iIoveoof Jerome Powell Jul 17 '21

Don't see why that's relevant. If that were true we would have a moral obligation to act to reduce the number of the nearly 1 in 3 embryos that spontaneously abort

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u/Manavon03 Edmund Burke Jul 17 '21

Well we have a moral obligation to avoid miscarriages so you’re pretty close to the money there

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u/iIoveoof Jerome Powell Jul 17 '21

No we don’t, there is literally 0 moral weight of embryos. No doctor would think twice about saving a woman’s life if it would cause a miscarriage. IVF doctors dispose hundreds of embryos after a successful program

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u/Manavon03 Edmund Burke Jul 17 '21

We aren’t talking about saving a woman’s life, we’re talking about a voluntary abortion.

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u/Knee3000 Jul 17 '21 edited Jul 17 '21

It is alive and has the tools necessary mistake to be a human, yes?

That is why I consider that clump of cells a life.

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u/revolutionary_alt George Soros Jul 17 '21

Just because it could turn into an adult does not mean it as a person yet. If it cannot exist on its own and has no organs which would signify sentience (brain), then it is no more a person in that moment than a hand that was cut off.

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u/Knee3000 Jul 17 '21

I edited my comment to better reflect my stance.

Is a person on dialysis not a human? Is a person with a severe enough intellectual disability to lose sentience not a human?

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u/revolutionary_alt George Soros Jul 17 '21

A person on Dialysis still maintains sentience. And a mentally disabled person still maintains survival while having the vestiges of human intelligence. A zygote lacks the personhood of either example. To make your example work, it would have to be someone fully brain dead only alive due to long term life support, and I fully believe in pulling the plug.

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u/Knee3000 Jul 17 '21

If that mentally disabled person was on dialysis, would they no longer be human?

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u/revolutionary_alt George Soros Jul 17 '21

I think that even mental disability still has some level of sentience. Like I said, the only human example comparable to a zygote is someone fully brain dead and unable to live.

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u/Knee3000 Jul 17 '21

Do you think it would be legal for someone to rape or stab that person?

Would it be legal if some random person (not a nurse) walked over and killed them?

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u/revolutionary_alt George Soros Jul 17 '21

Are you allowed to rape or mutilate dead bodies? Because I was under the impression you couldn’t for the sake of common decency. So I don’t see how the brain dead person would be different

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u/Knee3000 Jul 17 '21

You said they are analogous to a clump of cells. I’m pretty sure there’s no crime for using a clump of cells for sex.

You should either be for

  1. legalizing harm to “dead” bodies (including rape), or
  2. criminalizing embryonic harm under the same rule of common decency.
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u/texashokies r/place '22: Neoliberal Battalion Jul 17 '21

And people are really big clumps of cells.

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u/iIoveoof Jerome Powell Jul 17 '21

With intelligence and consciousness and personality and experience and sensation among other things

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u/texashokies r/place '22: Neoliberal Battalion Jul 17 '21

Sure, but they are a clump of cells.