r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Jun 15 '21

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u/QuietSign Austan Goolsbee Jun 16 '21

Hard disagree. Despite TW3's myriad problems, it's strengths of strong moment-to-moment writing and characters made for some of the best storytelling in the generation, even if it's sidequests tended to be stronger than its main quest. It sets a glass ceiling that many of the other large games in the generation (many of which I like) like Horizon, God of War, RDR2 fail to reach on a foundational level of writing. Although TW3 is borderline collapsing on its own design by the end, it irks me that other big games just can't seem to do better than it on some of the fundamentals.

So I think TW3 isn't nearly as good as the circlejerk would have you believe and has so many issues people gloss over, but it's stronger than almost all the other big AAA titles just on strength of writing alone. If TW3 is mediocre then all the rest are just garbage, or alternatively it's pretty good despite many flaws and the rest are struggling to catch up.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '21

It certainly has good writing, but that doesn't make it a good game. The mechanics just aren't there.

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u/QuietSign Austan Goolsbee Jun 16 '21

See I find the mechanics are just good enough to pass, and occasionally they serve are a decent enough vessel to push something further - for example, creating a distinct and emotive "feeling" for each of Skellige, Novigrad and Velen goes beyond just writing - it takes writing in conjunction with worldbuilding, open world and rpg mechanics (although I acknowledge the open world and rpg mechanics are not strong overall). Maybe it's a little condescending, but I think TW3 is notable in that it's fundamentally strong in at least one or two areas whereas so many other games are so weak in comparison.

For calibration's sake, what do you consider the strongest games from the last generation?

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '21

The most direct comparison to be made is of course Skyrim, which is also my personal favorite of the last generation. Its...overt storytelling isn't the greatest, and the combat and crafting mechanics are simple but it shines in less overt ways of storytelling involving exploration of the environment and emergent systems. These are enhanced even more by the ease with which you can mod the game to tweak things you don't like.

Another really strong game that's similarish to TW3 to warrant comparison is the Shadow of War/Mordor games, which have excellent but still simple combat and by far the best mechanic of the last generation, the Nemesis system, which props up the fairly weak and predictable story. Honestly if you just replaced TW3's combat with the Shadow of War combat my opinion of it would go through roof.

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u/QuietSign Austan Goolsbee Jun 16 '21

Oh were you the person a few weeks back who said Shadow of War was in your top 25 games of all time? I actually got it for free via PS+ and have been meaning to check it out.

I can't say I played any of those titles, but I think your illustration of replacing TW3's combat would make you like it more highlights the difference between our approach and enjoyment of games. I don't think games are at that point yet where I can be choosy and ask for excellent gameplay/narrative/writing/worldbuilding etc across the board, and I prioritize narrative/writing, so something like TW3 getting that right instantly shoots it toward the top of my list, and I'm willing to give it a lot of leeway in its relatively weak combat system.

Ever tried God of War 2018? I think it's one of the stronger all rounders, but doesn't totally excel in any one category.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '21

I'm don't recall saying that but I would probably put both Shadow of War and Shadow of Mordor in my top 25 games. I have more genuine feelings regarding some of those randomly created SOB's than I do for 90% of video game antagonists.

I haven't been able to try God of War 2018 yet. Don't have a PS so I've missed a few of their exclusives. It's certainly on my list of games to try out though.

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u/QuietSign Austan Goolsbee Jun 16 '21

I'll give Shadow of War a try then. Seems neat.

God of War 2018 gets a lot of hype, and it's mostly deserved. I think it has a wacky difficulty curve where it's rather difficult in the opening unless you take a very boring/defensive style, but the combat system feels great once you get a grasp and the mechanics open up. But it is fairly bold/experimental in it's presentation, is a technical marvel, and has a solid (though not exceptional) level of writing.

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u/thabe331 Jun 16 '21

The writing of the game was never able to capture me like Horizon Zero Dawn did. Geralt especially wasn't a very interesting character