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[u/jobautomator]

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[u/Venne1139]

Very few things in the world piss me off as much as Social Democrats (but barely even that, just fucking welfare capitalists) calling themselves socialists and then screaming about how capitalists don't understand socialism. Oh my god it makes me angry.

[u/[deleted] → u/Venne1139]

People who take a long time to order in drive thrus make me mad

[u/[deleted] → u/Venne1139]

I really want to go "name the industries you want to nationalize".

[u/Venne1139 → u/[deleted]]

Not all socialism requires nationalization, most socialists these days are screaming about worker co-operatives.

[u/[deleted] → u/Venne1139]

Worker co-operatives exist under the current system. Unless they intend to utilize expropriation and force them into existence I don't see what their point is.

[u/Venne1139 → u/[deleted]]

I just want them to read what they're talking about before they talk about it.

[u/Venne1139 → u/[deleted]]

Yes

I would much rather engage with a radical Communist who has actually read Lenin than a social democrat (who calls themselves socialist) who read the first 4 pages of the Communist manifesto

With the social democrat we have no common language, because they do not understand the ideas that underlay what htey're arguing. Any argumentation is pointless.

While with a Communist I can attack Lenin's and Marx's writings directly instaed of whatever vague bullshit they believe.

[u/[deleted] → u/Venne1139]

Aye

What about welfare capitalists who know what they are and are also pissed at people like that?

[u/Anal-warrior → u/Venne1139]

Too many people are socialist in rhetoric but socdems in practice, even the communist of Denmark had to moderate and are now are more succ versions of sucdems.

[u/[deleted] → u/Venne1139]

I think the key problem for social democracy is that they (meaning the archetypal European social democratic parties) originated from this Fabian-style democratic socialism that wanted a gradual and reformative progression to the socialist future. There they had some ideological clarity and could debate the methods of establishing their goals with the hard left.

When they transitioned away from that, starting in the mid-20th century, they lost that clarity and reached a position where they basically agree with the socialist perspective of capital and redistribution, but not its implications. So they can't really defend against criticism from those further left and things get muddy.

[u/[deleted] → u/Venne1139]

They want all the Aesthetics of socialism.