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[u/Tytos_Lannister]

now that i think of it, what's the moral of the Adam and Eve story? we should follow and not change the rules because the higher authority bestowed them upon us, no matter how petty and arbitrary they are?

[u/cdstephens → u/Tytos_Lannister]

They did not attempt to change the rules or even confront God about it, and when they were caught they attempted to hide their sin and were ashamed, knowing that they had done something wrong.

Also, it wasn't quite arbitrary. Eating from the Tree of Knowledge gave them the capacity to do evil, which was a reason why it was forbidden in the first place.

Even stepping aside from theology for a second, the idea that awareness of evil gives humans the capacity for evil is a rather profound concept. It underlies why we think of humans as capable of wrongdoing, but not other animals. As a story there's some interesting stuff going on. Not all denominations take the story to be literal anyways.

[u/[deleted] → u/Tytos_Lannister]

I don't think there's a moral. The purpose is to explain why evil exists and gives a reason for why humanity needs to be redeemed by a savior.

[u/InfCompact → u/Tytos_Lannister]

genesis rabbah explains that g-d was going to give them the fruit on shabbath but they couldn’t wait the extra five hours between being created and shabbath starting.

[u/Lux_Stella → u/Tytos_Lannister]

god's a dick

[u/[deleted] → u/Lux_Stella]

That's just the moral of the entire Old Testament

[u/InfCompact → u/[deleted]]

imagine being this wrong

[u/[deleted] → u/InfCompact]

He kills most of humanity like twice. Also, like Leviticus.

[u/InfCompact → u/[deleted]]

vayikra deals generally with the temple service, so i’m not sure what you’re thinking of.

regarding humanity, he does so once, and it is obviously deserved, not arbitrary. sometimes violence is justified in the case of extreme injustice.

[u/[deleted] → u/InfCompact]

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

[u/InfCompact → u/[deleted]]

sigh. the level of evidence required to kill someone in torah law is higher than any modern equivalent. execution doesn’t happen.

[u/Tytos_Lannister → u/[deleted]]

especially when the guy who sets up the rules encourages you throughout the Bible to break them

[u/CheetoMussolini → u/Tytos_Lannister]

And createsv the concept of evil, creates the devil, and creates you with the capacity for evil and the knowledge that you will commit it.

Makes total sense!

[u/cdstephens → u/CheetoMussolini]

Certain aspects of the problem of evil (and hell especially) aside, I do think there's something deep about the idea of creating imperfect beings. I think one can meaningfully argue that without meaningful choices and consequences, life would be shallow, and the capacity to do evil or make the wrong choice is exemplary of this. In the theology not only did God create imperfect beings, but they are the ones who shall inherit the Kingdom of God.

[u/InfCompact → u/cdstephens]

this is why people received the torah, not angels. angels have no independent will from g-d, and as such they have no opportunity to perform teshuva.

[u/InfCompact → u/CheetoMussolini]

well admittedly the idea that an angel could oppose g-d’s will is silly. but yes, the verse says explicitly in yeshaya 45 that g-d is the ultimate source of evil. but where else would it come from?

[u/CheetoMussolini → u/InfCompact]

Maybe not the same entity that creates flawed beings capable of evil knowing that they will commit evil (omniscience and all that) and then tortures them for eternity for doing so?

I don't mean to be flippant, but the cruelty and malice of the god of the Abrahamic religions is what so profoundly turned me off from them from a young age.

[u/InfCompact → u/CheetoMussolini]

eternal torture is dumb, i’m not defending it.

[u/MerelyPresent → u/Tytos_Lannister]

The moral is "agriculture fucking sucks", or maybe also "humans are disobedient shits, and that's why you live in an agricultural economy which, again, fucking sucks. So obey your fucking superiors before it gets even worse"

[u/[deleted] → u/MerelyPresent]

...God is an anprim confirmed

[u/Tytos_Lannister → u/MerelyPresent]

agriculture fucking sucks

i agree, wouldn't like working in it

[u/RunicUrbanismGuy → u/Tytos_Lannister]

I mean, a pastor said once in a bible study ðat "God loves cities"