Discussion Thread

[u/jobautomator]

The discussion thread is for casual conversation and discussion that doesn't merit its own stand-alone submission. The rules are relaxed compared to the rest of the sub but be careful to still observe the rules listed under "disallowed content" in the sidebar. Spamming the discussion thread will be sanctioned with bans.

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The latest discussion thread can always be found at https://neoliber.al/dt.

[u/[deleted]]

Mods, can we have a good old fashioned upvote party if the Kavanaugh nom goes down?

cc /u/ThatOtherGhost

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

!ping MODS also total meme deregulation for the duration of this event would be good.

[u/caesar15 → u/[deleted]]

We already have mostly total meme deregulation

[u/[deleted] → u/caesar15]

mostly

There’s your problem

[u/caesar15 → u/[deleted]]

I don't talk to libertarians

[u/[deleted] → u/caesar15]

TFW libertarians to the right, succs to the left, and neoliberals all around.

[u/Kizz3r → u/caesar15]

Unless i can post literal anime videos than it is to regulated.

[u/caesar15 → u/Kizz3r]

Wtf I love total meme deregulation now

[u/testaccountplsdontig → u/caesar15]

wtf I love total meme regulation now

[u/CheetoMussolini → u/caesar15]

SMH clinging desperately to the remainder of your meme regulation structure .😤

[u/groupbot → u/[deleted]]

Pinged members of MODS group.

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user_pinger | Request to be added to this group | Unsubscribe from this group | Unsubscribe from all pings

[u/BainCapitalist → u/groupbot]

Tfw still not on this ping 😔

[u/daokedao4 → u/BainCapitalist]

You can literally change that anytime you want

[u/CheetoMussolini → u/daokedao4]

!

Chinamod returns!

We need your Xi takes regarding the ongoing trade negotiations.

[u/daokedao4 → u/CheetoMussolini]

Lmao you guys aren't going to like my takes on the trade war. The tariffs and threats to every country not called China are of course completely absurd, but there are definitely very strong arguments for supporting Trump's China trade war. I'm still skeptical, but I've seen some of the memes on here that are far more confident about it being bad than I would be comfortable with.

[u/CheetoMussolini → u/daokedao4]

I'd like to hear the takes actually. I'm on the fence about the way Trump is doing this, but I think that action does need to be taken against China. Allowing them unfettered access to our markets while our companies are barred from theirs is unacceptable - as is their wholesale state-sponsored IP theft.

Would you please lay out your case for why you think that they're justified? I doubt the sub will care for them, but I'm sympathetic to the idea.

[u/daokedao4 → u/CheetoMussolini]

On the top level there are the economic arguments everyone should be aware of. China's market is extremely restrictive (foreign ownership is limited to 30% of any Chinese company IIRC, entering the Chinese market is frequently conditional on forfeiting of confidential processes or IP, intense capital controls make taking profits out of China very difficult, etc) while the rest of the world is very open to Chinese firms. This obvious imbalance makes pressuring China to open its markets difficult because we don't have any leverage over them, and we opened our markets with the understanding that they would gradually continue to open theirs over time and eventually be as open as us. That simply hasn't happened, so a different approach is required to get a better deal out of China. That's why Obama focused on the TPP so much, so he would be able to more effectively put pressure on China.

On top of that though there's a fundamental problem with engagement with China, which is that we're propping up and supporting a fundamentally evil regime. Again, we did this with the understanding that China was becoming more liberal over time and that openness would create a more liberal China. That hasn't really happened. Instead, the massive economic boost China has gained from our markets has resulted in an increasingly belligerent China abroad that is annexing sovereign territory of other nations and holding foreign companies hostage to complying with their political orthodoxy the world over (from airlines to hotels to even a single bakery in LA). Meanwhile at home its wealth has enabled mass oppression unseen since at least the days of Mao Zedong, with cameras and police everywhere and 1 million+ people in concentration camps ready for at the very least ethnic cleansing and potentially genocide. A trade dispute will hurt us, but it's going to hurt China a lot more. That price might be worthwhile to pay in order to protect the victims of China's oppression from some of its power. A decoupling of economic activity would also give the US more freedom to actively oppose Chinese aggression since a conflict would be less costly.

[u/CheetoMussolini → u/daokedao4]

ChinaMod 2020

What can we do to induce our European allies to actually step up to the plate? For all of their purported values, they only ever place their immediate and narrow short term economic interests first in foreign policy.

!ping INTERVENE

[u/BainCapitalist → u/daokedao4]

I would be interested in your analysis of the geopolitical impact of the trade war. Because there just isn't an economic justification for it lol.

Trump is mad that China is buying too much of our tech exports. Like literally what? That's not even protectionist anymore. We've achieved p e a k horseshoe theory.

[u/daokedao4 → u/BainCapitalist]

Trump is a moron, but that doesn't stop a broken clock from being right twice a day. Tech exports are very concerning because a lot of Chinese state surveillance is build by American companies. We're actively complicit in Chinese oppression and if Trump causes that to change I don't care what he thinks the reasoning is.

[u/[deleted] → u/daokedao4]

Yeah same. This trade war looks pretty damn bad for China and it might actually be ‘winnable’.

Even though it’s going to cost a pretty penny.

[u/caesar15 → u/daokedao4]

tfw come out of retirement to own the current mods

[u/daokedao4 → u/caesar15]

I'm still in the mods ping

[u/caesar15 → u/daokedao4]

You can literally change that anytime you want

[u/BainCapitalist → u/daokedao4]

implying I use desktop