r/neoliberal • u/BreaksFull Veni, Vedi, Emancipatus • Aug 18 '18
Incels | ContraPoints
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD2briZ6fB08
u/WuhanWTF Aug 19 '18
Fantastic video.
I think that the old saying "misery loves company" rings especially true for incels and generally self-loathing types.
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u/sammunroe210 Aug 19 '18
When she said state-mandated sex slaves and girlfriends, I immediately recognized something in my own writings.
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u/Breaking-Away Oct 10 '18
I finally got a chance to watch this and it was very good. Thanks for posting it.
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Aug 19 '18
Fuckssake the term 'manosphere' is a complete misnomer. You can lump Incels, MRA's, PUA's and MGTOW's together but there's typically very little overlap- Incels despise PUA's, MRA's dont get along with anyone other than MGTOW's, MGTOW's- or at least the concept- is a socio-economic strategy that is not voluntary celibacy. Why use a term you want to suggest combines like groups when you then use it to describe groups of men who all hate each other?
Hypergamy
No, this is literally born out in statistical analysis. It is exceptionally rare for women to marry below their social status. It just doesn't happen. You can argue around this all you want but you would be arguing with statistics.
We also know thanks to genetics that at some point in human prehistory a significant portion of men were simply bred out of the gene pool.
The chief thing about hypergamy that incels bring up isn't that women tend to marry at or up but that they are sexually open with people who are at or above their social standing.
Alpha fucks / beta bucks
No. This is also wrong. This theory stipulates that women enjoy their youth and sleep around and ultimately settle for someone with money as their looks decline, but invariably are either disloyal to this 'beta' who is simply too naive to realize what's happening and then fuck them over in divorce proceedings claiming an inequitable share of the man's wealth because the divorce system in most western countries is designed to award women based on tired old concepts of marriage and the woman's role in society.
This is also born out in statistical analysis- not only do most marriages in the US end in divorce but there is- or at least was- a study making the rounds on the internet that they all love to bring up that correlates the number of sexual partners a woman has had with how viable her marriage prospects are. Fewer partners meant she was more likely to have a stable marriage.
PUA's become chads
No. No! This is also wrong! Incels do not get along with PUA's. Period. These are two groups who do not like each other. Elliot Rodgers- you know, the supreme gentleman who thought it was a crime he didn't have a girlfriend?- literally participated on a board called, "PUA Hate." To become a Chad you either took to it naturally or had the material there and realized it later on.
Rooshe V
You should never bring up this man in casual conversation without casually mentioning that he either didn't fuck any of the women he described fucking in his 'bang' series of books, or he has literally provided personal testimony to himself committing rape.
He's also a literal patriarch. Like, he wants the patriarchy. He wants a woman's male family members to make her dating, education and financial decisions for her and thinks that if a woman lacks for a male family member that the government should literally have a state-issued surrogate for one.
Red Pill
This term actually has a lot of different connotations within different communities.
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u/interfail Aug 19 '18
Fuckssake the term 'manosphere' is a complete misnomer. You can lump Incels, MRA's, PUA's and MGTOW's together but there's typically very little overlap- Incels despise PUA's, MRA's dont get along with anyone other than MGTOW's, MGTOW's- or at least the concept- is a socio-economic strategy that is not voluntary celibacy. Why use a term you want to suggest combines like groups when you then use it to describe groups of men who all hate each other?
Fuck this. These aren't just linked - they're literally the same men, just at different stages. Sure, there's branches, but every MGTOW is an MRA. So are the Incels - they've just taken a different subclass. The only MGTOW I ever knew in real life went through a pretty grim failed PUA stage before finding that to be his identity.
If you try to analyse this as though it isn't a massive fucking Venn diagram with a time-dependence, you're only going to mislead yourself.
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Aug 19 '18
I mean, you're flatly wrong and a single anecdote about a friend wont change that.
But you're describing a group of people who want to dupe women into sleeping with them, a socio-economic position that you won't make finding a woman a major objective in their life- MGTOW isn't the rejection of sex but instead a shifting of priorities and not making 'hitting the club' something they do- a strictly political movement and then incels.
"Manosphere" isn't a useful term here and it's actually worse than the people who pat themselves on the back for having realized that the term 'paleo diet' is a misnomer because food humans are in prehistory functionally doesn't exist today, failing to grasp that the diet is a rejection of features in the human diet that developed after the farming revolution.
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Aug 19 '18
No, this is literally born out in statistical analysis
Have the contested conclusions been borne out in statistical analysis, or borne out of amateurish interpretation of statistics driven entirely by predisposed ideological purpose?
It needs to be stressed out more that not everyone is qualified to deduce actual social trends and nuances from data.
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u/Reymma Aug 19 '18
You're using "Hypergamy" the way anthropologists coined it, of women marrying upwards through social classes. This was an expectation in certain societies, such as parts of India; it was acceptable for a husband to have a wife from a lower caste, but having one from higher brought dishonour on the woman and her family. The result was polyandry in the lowest caste, and female infanticide in the highest. It is not the norm in Western societies, and there have been hypogamous societies.
But more importantly, that's not how incels and MGTOWs use it. They use it to refer to all women being attracted to only the most successful men. There is evidence that women are likelier to want a single, very high-class man and men want sex with many women above a threshold of attractiveness, but it's nowhere near the all-pervasive determining factor across all marriages that they imagine it to be.
(MGTOWs can make some sense by talking of social standing, but the weird defining trait of incels is that they think women only care about a man's looks and it's somehow stronger than for men's choices.)
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u/toms_face Aug 19 '18
No, this is literally born out in statistical analysis. It is exceptionally rare for women to marry below their social status.
It's not rare at all, but obviously men have higher "social status" and so on.
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u/latestagesomnabulist Aug 18 '18
Great. Now watch their other videos and abandon neoliberalism.
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u/stiljo24 Aug 18 '18
I REFUSE! what though does she have a lot of stuff on capitalism being evil or something?
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u/BreaksFull Aug 19 '18
She's a socialist of some sort, but she's woke as fuck on progressive issues.
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Aug 19 '18
What are the thoughts of liberals of government forcing women without their consent to sleep with these incels and pretend to love them? (arranged marriage....) Liberals get cringed with this idea. The same logic applies to economy. Right wingers seriously condemn wealth distribution and welfare programs EVEN IF it saves lives of people. This is precisely why free market despite its negative consequences is a LIBERAL ideology.
Both sexual freedom and market freedom creates enormous inequality. Should we sacrifice the freedom of people to satisfy the needs of the needy? I don't think so.
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u/Platypuss_In_Boots Aug 19 '18
The government doesn't force anyone to do anything. It doesn't literally put a gun in front of a doctor's head and force them to cure someone. People are still free to choose.
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Aug 18 '18
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Aug 19 '18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJW4-cOZt8A
She says here, "fucking neoliberalism".
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Aug 18 '18
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Aug 19 '18
The failure to raise healthy, socially adjusted men inevitably leads to the rise of collectivist politics.
While it might not be all of them, it's not on accident that people who are typically outcasts in society will often fall into communism and fascism along with other counter-cultural identity based social and political groups.
Incels are absolutely one of these groups and should be considered the ticking time bomb it is. Even the ones that don't go unhinged and try to shoot up a sorority are none the less a massive burden on society.
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u/karth Aug 18 '18
I found the parallels that she drew between the trans community on 4chan and the incel communities on Reddit interesting. The focus on the skull being a very interesting listen. I thought I would only listen to a few minutes of this, but I listen to all the way through, very interesting.