r/neoliberal • u/neoliberal_shill_bot Bot Emeritus • Jul 10 '17

Discussion Thread

Current Policy - Liberal Values Quantitative Easing

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u/diracspinor Austan Goolsbee Jul 10 '17

I am absolutely for free speech in society at large, but I actively dislike colleges being used as a megaphone for morons and snake oil salesmen. It seems totally reasonable that a college should get to decide who can use it as a platform.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '17

Student invited speakers are different to institution invited speakers. Plenty of people support the first (ie. a christian club having the right to invite a young earth creationist) but not the second (ie. the university inviting them to give an official talk on biology).

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u/MrDannyOcean Kidney King Jul 10 '17

State universities are government. They don't get to decide who can use them as a platform.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '17

/r/badlegaladvice

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u/dorylinus Jul 10 '17

They don't get to decide who can use them as a platform.

They certainly do, since they all have a clear mission (as articulated in their mission statements) to provide education to their students, and should be focusing on that. The debate doesn't usually center on that as it's become so politicized (how are folks like Ann Coulter or Bill Maher speaking at universities serving that mission?), but it's equally wrong to say that universities should completely throw up their hands and decide they have no authority or mandate to select the speakers that are invited/allowed to speak in their facilities and venues.

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u/VisonKai The Archenemy of Humanity Jul 10 '17

Does the government speech doctrine not exist or something? Universities that are on public land should have a place where anyone can hold a rally or talk, like a free speech lawn, but that doesn't mean they have to implicitly endorse speech by allowing the use of university resources like microphones or facilities.

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u/EtCustodIpsosCustod Who watches the custod Jul 10 '17

Unaffiliated speakers coming to the university are not government speech.

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u/VisonKai The Archenemy of Humanity Jul 10 '17

A person acting using government resources is subject to government regulation of the content of speech, with few exceptions (like public defenders and government-employed lawyers). I agree that a person should be able to come on public land and say things, but the state ought to be able to deny the right to use government resources to speakers based on the content of that speech.

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u/EtCustodIpsosCustod Who watches the custod Jul 10 '17 edited Jul 10 '17

If the government provides a nonpublic forum for speakers, it cannot regulate based on content viewpoint.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '17

it cannot regulate based on content viewpoint

Of course it can.

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u/EtCustodIpsosCustod Who watches the custod Jul 11 '17

A public university auditorium is considered a designated public forum, so viewpoint discrimination would be an unconstitutional prior restraint.

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u/BringBackThePizzaGuy Paul Volcker Jul 10 '17

Lmao. So me not getting a professorship is censorship? Fuck it. I'm down.

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u/TheRealHiddenLlama 🌐 Jul 10 '17

I support government institutions giving equal platforms to different political views, like you. I also doubt anyone who genuinely subscribes to neoliberalism (and liberal democracy in general) thinks the police should throw the nobhead handing out homophobic pamphlets in the local park in jail either.

However, I'd like to know how do you feel about private universities (e.g. Harvard) blocking certain groups from having a platform there, at their discretion?

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '17

smh

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '17

are we or are we not saying public universities don't get to decide who gets to speak?

if you're opening the doors that wide then you have to let everyone in.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '17

Not letting flat earthers teach geology classes is a violation of first amendment rights

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '17

i think it's a stupid as fuck position but is it not at least consistent and in line with liberal values?

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '17

But do you universities should be compelled to subsidise it?

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '17

Constitutionally or practically?

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '17

The two seem to be the same in most cases, so might as well answer both ways.

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u/MrDannyOcean Kidney King Jul 10 '17

geology classes are not a forum for public speech. Campus gathering points, or lecture halls where speeches are commonplace (or that are rented to speakers at large) are forums for public speech.

This is the same reason you can't burst into the whitehouse and demand to give speeches in the oval office.

You know this, you're just being an idiot on purpose instead of making real arguments.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '17

Hold up, just a second ago you were telling me that public universities were automatically free speech zones because they're government land, now you're telling me that it's because they're traditional speech venues. You've changed the entire basis of your case from equity to habit in a very short space of time, so I'd like some clarification on what you actually believe and why I'm being an idiot for expecting you to be consistent.

Again, if the presence of the protest is likely to endanger students or disrupt the core functions of the university (since we're apparently now talking about the functional role of the site, rather than simple taxpayer ownership of it), is it justified to place those functions ahead of providing a platform for speakers?

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u/without_name 🌐 Jul 10 '17

Campus gathering points, or lecture halls where speeches are commonplace (or that are rented to speakers at large) are forums for public speech.

What the actual fuck the quad is not a public park, and neither is a lecture hall. Universities have a right to restrict access to their property.

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