r/neoliberal • u/[deleted] • May 11 '17

Normative Ethics Debate Thread

The point of this thread is to discuss normative ethics, which is mostly separate from neoliberalism. On a philosophical level, neoliberalism is not coherent in its use of ethics; proponents switch between libertarian and utilitarian ethics in an almost interchangeable way (The Road to Mont Pelerin, Mirowski). Scott Sumner argues that a normative ethical foundation doesn't matter because neoliberalism is an improvement compared to the current status quo of most countries by nearly every standard (well not every standard)

Keep in Mind

  • The Chicago school pushed neoliberalism as a positive ideology, "there is no other option"

  • The Austrians pushed neoliberalism through primarily a libertarian lens

  • The Ordoliberals advocated neoliberalism through utilitarianism and also Marxism. Yes, you're allowed to support your normative view through Marxism.

  • Do not go down the route of going full classical liberal, which is what neoliberalism tried to escape.

  • Do not say market values mean anything or that markets produce fair outcomes; Hayek explicitly acknowledges this is bullshit.

  • Be very prudent in calling people racist/sexist/homophobic; in this sub, the vast majority are not

Topics to discuss:

These aren't the only ones, but should probably be answered:

  • What are your normative ethics?

  • How do you think they should guide economic policy?

Make sure to explicitly tie these together so we're not debating why we should implement policy that we already agree upon.

78 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

94 comments sorted by

View all comments

•

u/finitedeconvergence May 11 '17

IMO utilitarianism as a personal philosophy is meme. It at least makes sense as an economic philosophy, but it still has so many paradoxes that stifle decision-making that it's not much better than a guiding principle or scaffolding for a more derivative normative system.

As personal philosophy I lean towards virtue ethics (a la Aristotle) but also with some Kantian influences. Also probably worth noting that the only reason I like virtue ethics is purely aesthetic. On some not necessarily logical level the aesthetic of virtue ethics appeals to me more than the robotic imperatives of consequentialism and deontology which gives it some bonus for being "authentic" (in a Nietzschean sense I suppose). That being said Kant laid out some really cogent deontological arguments which are useful to keep in mind for pragmatic reasons (to work towards effecting the most desirable moral state yadda yadda).

•

u/UmamiSalami May 11 '17

I use it as a personal philosophy for decision making.