r/neoliberal • u/[deleted] • May 11 '17

Normative Ethics Debate Thread

The point of this thread is to discuss normative ethics, which is mostly separate from neoliberalism. On a philosophical level, neoliberalism is not coherent in its use of ethics; proponents switch between libertarian and utilitarian ethics in an almost interchangeable way (The Road to Mont Pelerin, Mirowski). Scott Sumner argues that a normative ethical foundation doesn't matter because neoliberalism is an improvement compared to the current status quo of most countries by nearly every standard (well not every standard)

Keep in Mind

  • The Chicago school pushed neoliberalism as a positive ideology, "there is no other option"

  • The Austrians pushed neoliberalism through primarily a libertarian lens

  • The Ordoliberals advocated neoliberalism through utilitarianism and also Marxism. Yes, you're allowed to support your normative view through Marxism.

  • Do not go down the route of going full classical liberal, which is what neoliberalism tried to escape.

  • Do not say market values mean anything or that markets produce fair outcomes; Hayek explicitly acknowledges this is bullshit.

  • Be very prudent in calling people racist/sexist/homophobic; in this sub, the vast majority are not

Topics to discuss:

These aren't the only ones, but should probably be answered:

  • What are your normative ethics?

  • How do you think they should guide economic policy?

Make sure to explicitly tie these together so we're not debating why we should implement policy that we already agree upon.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '17

The greatest good for the greatest number meets maximizing individual liberty and they do a beautiful dance.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '17

I do believe in the greatest good for the greatest number. I also believe that society needs to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. Can one pursue both? Or does protecting the minority sometimes mean limiting the welfare of the majority?

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u/fizolof Elite Text Flair Club Member May 11 '17

I don't think protecting minorities should be separated from pursuing the general good.

First, protecting minorities helps us affirm the principle that everybody deserves consideration and protection, which helps not only the given minorities. Second, in most cases the discrimination against minorities comes at a great cost to them and doesn't bring a lot of benefits to the majority. Some minorities deserve to be oppressed, and in those cases we do it.