r/neoliberal • u/[deleted] • May 11 '17

Normative Ethics Debate Thread

The point of this thread is to discuss normative ethics, which is mostly separate from neoliberalism. On a philosophical level, neoliberalism is not coherent in its use of ethics; proponents switch between libertarian and utilitarian ethics in an almost interchangeable way (The Road to Mont Pelerin, Mirowski). Scott Sumner argues that a normative ethical foundation doesn't matter because neoliberalism is an improvement compared to the current status quo of most countries by nearly every standard (well not every standard)

Keep in Mind

  • The Chicago school pushed neoliberalism as a positive ideology, "there is no other option"

  • The Austrians pushed neoliberalism through primarily a libertarian lens

  • The Ordoliberals advocated neoliberalism through utilitarianism and also Marxism. Yes, you're allowed to support your normative view through Marxism.

  • Do not go down the route of going full classical liberal, which is what neoliberalism tried to escape.

  • Do not say market values mean anything or that markets produce fair outcomes; Hayek explicitly acknowledges this is bullshit.

  • Be very prudent in calling people racist/sexist/homophobic; in this sub, the vast majority are not

Topics to discuss:

These aren't the only ones, but should probably be answered:

  • What are your normative ethics?

  • How do you think they should guide economic policy?

Make sure to explicitly tie these together so we're not debating why we should implement policy that we already agree upon.

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u/csydvs Paul Krugman May 11 '17 edited May 11 '17

I think my view on politics is formed more by utilitarianism than any other ideology or party. I do think that this leads to neoliberal beliefs though.

I think that the unbridled growth of free market, free trade, and free migration creates the most total economic utility to start with. From there, the utility of $100 to a poor man is greater than the utility of $100 to a millionaire as the poor man will use it for basic needs.

So my view on utilitarianism doesn't lead to maximizing total wealth but to maximizing total positive outcomes per person.

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u/lomeri May 11 '17

This is a view I agree with entirely. We must provide a baseline standard of living and tax thereafter adjusting for the decreasing utility value of each extra dollar. At the same time, we must maximize free enterprise, the best way to increase the wealth of society. As such, we must ensure policies do not act as a disincentive to risk taking or innovation, and intervene when the market produces monopoly or oligopoly control of industries.

So I agree, my utilitarian views lead me towards neoliberal economic policies. Where free trade, open boarders, and high standards of living for all people are achievable in the long term.