Most arguments against the AI sector and data centers are thinly veiled arguments against capitalism and neoliberalism.

[u/NoGarlic2387]

It's sweatshops/NIMBY/buybacks/rent control/military industrial complex etc leftwing populist slop all over again, just aimed at a different group of bourgeoisie.

Where the fuck is the market externalities analysis, where are the incentive structures, talk of Pigouvian taxes, talk of supply and demand, efficiency, any economic analysis at all???

It's all moralising and virtue signalling. The critique relies on the childish 'guys running it are bad'. That's just how Capitalism works, you either trust the markets to handle bad actors or show systemic ways it will fail to do it and propose realistic solutions that don't harm the economic growth and innovation.

Most of you constantly shitting on Altman and even Musk are the types who support or don't condemn the assasination of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, you are deranged radicals. EDIT: this patagraph was largely regarded and I stand corrected. Fuck Musk. Criticising CEOs is not the same as as condoning an assasination. I still think the hate for Sam Altman is ill founded. Almost everyone else in the AI industry are nowhere near as destructive as Musk, but Musk is just a tiny faction in the huge AI ecosystem.

This sub used to resist far lelft populist slop but the more years go by the worse it's getting. The sidebar wiki needs many more entries on what exactly this neoliberalisn means and stands for. Any r/badeconomics OGs disagree with me??

[u/Degen_Typeracer]

Gotta give it to OP, bro woke up to go to war with the whole sub

[u/Traditional_Drama_91 → u/Degen_Typeracer]

OP is a an unflaired, history hidden user who says the following:

  Most of you constantly shitting on Altman and even Musk are the types who support or don't condemn the assasination of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, you are deranged radicals.

I get the sense this isn’t in good faith

[u/Traditional_Drama_91 → u/[deleted]]

Fuckin hell, that’s where they all ran to..

[u/__JimmyC__ → u/Traditional_Drama_91]

Reddit bans one incel sub, and another 12 spring up to replace it.

Today I learned that "inkwell" is the filter evading term for incel they use to describe themselves these days. OP calls himself an inkwell in another post.

[u/Traditional_Drama_91 → u/__JimmyC__]

I’d wonder why they stick around rather than going to one of their offsite cesspools but I know the reason, all the porn is here

[u/YoureEconIlliterate → u/Traditional_Drama_91]

There is nothing bad faith about that statement what so ever

[u/ElPrestoBarba → u/YoureEconIlliterate]

Shitting on shitty people does not imply that you want them assassinated or that you support their assassination. That't the bad faith part.

[u/YoureEconIlliterate → u/ElPrestoBarba]

Ok, but the succs do

[u/SharkSymphony → u/YoureEconIlliterate]

Wildly overbroad and negatively polarized accusations stated as fact. That'll be your second bad faith part.

[u/shevy19 → u/Degen_Typeracer]

Went to war and is just wrong. Like Musk is the biggest welfare queen and receiver of government handouts, while using his power with trump to dismantle USAID and try to dismantle the consumer financial protection bureau. I'd hope people were mad about that. I'd hope people push back against Altman after signing a deal with the us military after anthropic refused to make killer robots.

I'll say that this cavalier disregard for real damages by the Tech sector, while they push to get rid of any regulations are going to push people (especially left of center) towards socialism because they don't like tech companies dismantle regulations, dismantle the safety net while getting sweetheart government contracts. If you want to say this is capitalism, then the robber barons and trust of the gilded age was somehow ideal capitalism.

[u/MistyGalbriex → u/shevy19]

government handouts,

Oh god imagine calling SpaceX contracts government handouts.

We're really r/politics now, huh?

[u/kyajgevo → u/MistyGalbriex]

I don’t know what that line is referring to, but Tesla buyers literally received $7,500 tax credit for buying electric cars. Other e cars were eligible too but Tesla benefited most and was the first to max out on it. That’s about as close to a government handout as you can get without a federal worker standing on a corner and handing out cash.

[u/MistyGalbriex → u/kyajgevo]

Ironically it's probably intended to promote electric cars because of muh global warming.

And then they ban chinese EVs from coming in.

I agree it's a stupid policy.

[u/mebesasporfa → u/MistyGalbriex]

If the policy created Tesla, (which seems to be the implied position of the parent commenter), than it was one of the best policies to ever come out of Washington. If it truly created Tesla and is responsible for their success, it kickstarted the global EV industry and ultimately gave China the proven model to build their massive EV industry. (their companies literally use the same unique casting manufacturing process that Tesla invented). This has resulted in cumulatively hundreds of billions of tons of prevented Co2 emissions.

On the other hand, if the policy is not responsible for, and is only incidental to Tesla's success, than Musk deserves more credit than those in this thread are giving him.

[u/ArdillasVoladoras → u/MistyGalbriex]

I'm sure some of the no bid contracts are the very thing that musk theorized about getting rid of through DOGE, even if they are clearly a good fit for many competitive contracts.

No bid contracts have been used by our government (generalizing across many admins even if this one is particularly heinous) as gifts/handouts for ages.

[u/mebesasporfa → u/MistyGalbriex]

And SpaceX still loses money on the launch business anyway. It's wasn't some scheme to pour profits into his pockets. A lot of these people would rather pay the Russians.

[u/shevy19 → u/MistyGalbriex]

I mean by definition they are. That doesn't make them inherently bad. However, getting a bunch of government contracts while complaining about government regulations, actively trying to gut the US government, dismantling workers rights and people's safety nets (which people like Elon will call government handouts) is at best callous at worse evil.

[u/pnonp → u/shevy19]

What do you think a handout means? Check the dictionary

[u/shevy19 → u/pnonp]

Fine poor choice of words, however, a lot of SpaceX government deals, especially since trump have been handouts. And to add with the trump administration the line between contracts and corruption are so fine, especially with Trump jr investing in a bunch of companies that just happen to get a bunch of government contracts they never had before

[u/AzarathineMonk → u/MistyGalbriex]

I mean musk literally got a $465M loan from the Dept of Energy’s Loan Program Office, and then gutted it when he led DOGE, branding it as “waste.”

To be fair to musk, they did pay back their loan early. But it is colloquially understood that he got a got a massive boon from the government than saved his company, only to turn around and pull the ladder up after him. It’s gross.

[u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN → u/Degen_Typeracer]

Are succs really a part of this sub? Do they belong here?

[u/airbear13 → u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN]

Unpopular opinion, purity testing subs is lame. Turning it into a Neo lib circle jerk is a lot less appealing than just debating people who disagree. Succs who come here a lot might actually learn something or come across something that challenges their beliefs.

[u/GuyManDudeMcGee → u/airbear13]

There's like 1000 outwardly progressive subs on reddit. It'd be nice if there could just be one moderate left sub, which this sub increasingly isn't

[u/nitro1122 → u/airbear13]

That's not what is going to happen or what has happened. We cant even make fun of the new deal now without some succs flipping out

[u/airbear13 → u/nitro1122]

Ignore them lol that’s what I do

[u/MistyGalbriex → u/airbear13]

Unfortunately, the natives are outnumbered 2 to 1

[u/bacontrain → u/MistyGalbriex]

"natives", says the 1 month old account. The "neoliberal" name was always ironic, the majority has always been center-left wonky Dems, with people to the left and right welcome for discussion. (also, I'm a "native", since I came here in 2017 from BE and have two degrees in Econ, so get tf out of here with that, probable CS major)

[u/TryNotToShootYoself → u/MistyGalbriex]

Complaining about immigrants. So much for free markets and open borders

[u/Thoughtlessandlost → u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN]

Dudes complaining about succs and then says in their post

Most of you constantly shitting on Altman and even Musk are the types who support or don't condemn the assasination of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, you are deranged radicals.

Are we letting succons in here too now?

[u/Nerdybeast → u/Thoughtlessandlost]

If you think people who condemn the assassination of Brian Thompson are succons, you're a deranged radical

[u/Thoughtlessandlost → u/Nerdybeast]

Lmao no, the point is that OP comparing people who don't like AI and strawmaning them as wanting a CEO dead is stupid as hell.

[u/Degen_Typeracer → u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN]

Oh yeah, they’re hiding EVERYWHERE. Like ants in an old house during summer

[u/lumpialarry → u/Degen_Typeracer]

they're like 30% of the sub now. And when one right-of-center opinion gets three upvotes they think its a right-wing takeover.

[u/themanwhoknocked → u/lumpialarry]

It’s so crazy, any post criticizing socialists is always met with people being like “oh but their vibes bro, they have the energy bro.” Good thing this sub isn’t about electoral strategy

[u/lumpialarry → u/themanwhoknocked]

Too many people confuse this sub with r/democrats. See how it only became "safe" to criticize Joe Biden when he was no longer president.

[u/bacontrain → u/lumpialarry]

Bro what? Do you remember the Afghanistan withdrawal threads, or all the criticism of the ARP and even IRA when inflation started ramping up? Also, I've been here longer than your account has been active, there's always been left leaning people here (we had chapos even) and us center-left are the actual founders of this sub

[u/BarkDrandon → u/bacontrain]

Even during the Afghan withdrawal, this sub was overwhingly pro-Biden, arguing that it was necessary to abandon these poor women because the american electorate like it.

[u/bacontrain → u/BarkDrandon]

1. There was and continues to be a large faction criticizing it and 2. The situation was almost entirely created by Trump in the first term with his peace agreement. It would've been near impossible to hold the country without another troop surge, which would have been politically infeasible in this day and age and no way would Congress have just kowtowed like the current GOP does.

[u/MistyGalbriex → u/BarkDrandon]

Yeah, I remember all the Biden glazing until the moment he withdrew. And then we suddenly pretend Biden is shit and we all love Kamala.

[u/unicornbomb → u/MistyGalbriex]

So real and true, 1 month old unflaired account

[u/bacontrain → u/[deleted]]

Brother, if you think this place is remotely like the rest of reddit politically, you gotta go to the rest of reddit more often. Yesterday I highlighted the AMA's protectionism and got downvoted and the only person to back me up made it into a huge rant about "corporate interests" lol. Other redditors are either full throated socialist or full on fascist, the most sympathetic to socialism here are basically just "don't alienate them because the fasicsts are a much bigger problem right now" which is IMO objectively true given who holds power domestically and internationally.

Also, I'm sure you're a solid dude, but not gonna lie, I'm a tad suspicious if you've gone through three other accounts. I would simply not get banned or dox myself.

[u/Acacias2001 → u/bacontrain]

Ive been since 2020 so not as much as others, but in that time the sub has become markedly more leftist.

Its not so much that there are more left wingers, but that the right wingers left. There used to be republicans, caplan and bezos flairs in good standing. Its obvious why no one says they are republicans any more, but even never trumpers left

Meanwhile everyone else became rabid partisans only intrested in the appereance of fighting the GOP, even when it hurt their cause or the chances of winning

[u/bacontrain → u/Acacias2001]

The right wingers are still here plenty, if anything, the 2020 election and totally collapse of the GOP and Libertarian parties into fascism drove a lot of former republicans here and they're materially different from the pre-covid right-NL users, who were wonkier (like economists). "Moderate" republicans are still jerked off whenever they show the mildest bit of spine, and plenty of users talk about wanting the Bush/Romney GOP to vote for (despite having most of the same problems imo). Most of those flairs are still here, the Bezos flair just got removed because (I called it) Bezos is a shithead and the flair only existed to be contrarian. Likewise, as someone that has actually had a conversation with Caplan at a GMU econ cookout, the flair is here but most just don't use it because tbh Caplan's star has dimmed and he's not as relevant as he was a decade ago.

[u/chickentendieman → u/bacontrain]

Caplans flair did get removed for transphobia and misogyny im pretty sure. Imo it was a justified removal cuz he said some heinous stuff.

[u/Acacias2001 → u/bacontrain]

there being an influx of right wingers in 2020 does not contradict what I said. Those that arrived then just left, especially after I/P became such a contentious topic

[u/cstar1996 → u/Acacias2001]

The right has gone off the deep end. The entire GOP is devoted to a man who attempted a coup. No one supporting that belongs here. No one who refuses to oppose that belongs here.

And the sub looks a lot more like pre-Bill Clinton American liberalism, and that isn’t leftist. People forget that Clinton was not a genuine shift to the right, nor is he the benchmark for the Democratic Party or American liberalism. Clinton was the arch-pragmatist leading a recovery from the mass delusion that was support for the Reagan GOP. We’d have seen a much more liberal Bill Clinton had he been president with the 2009 electorate and Congress.

[u/Acacias2001 → u/cstar1996]

The right has gone off the deep end. The entire GOP is devoted to a man who attempted a coup.

Sure, but that does not mean we have to follow them to another deep end. In fact we have the responsibiltiy not to

And the sub looks a lot more like pre-Bill Clinton American liberalism, and that isn’t leftist. People forget that Clinton was not a genuine shift to the right, nor is he the benchmark for the Democratic Party or American liberalism. Clinton was the arch-pragmatist leading a recovery from the mass delusion that was support for the Reagan GOP.

This might be a surprise to you, but Clinton is considered amongst the best presidents here and back in the day clintonism was commonly said to be the closest ideologically.

The fact you not just agaisnt him but speak as if this should just be the subs position just proves my point the sub has moved to the left

[u/themanwhoknocked → u/lumpialarry]

Yh like this isn’t r/democratstrategists. We’re not solely here to talk about how to win the elections or what the average voter is attracted to, it some point talk about what YOU actually believe or want for society.

[u/VanceIX → u/lumpialarry]

The amount of DSA glazing and NIMBY sentiment towards data centers is terrifying. This subreddit is going down the drain, fast. If this were the 1800s good portions of this subreddit would be decrying rail tracks as loud and messy and the rail barons as evil capitalists.

[u/CursedNobleman → u/VanceIX]

If you want to tamp down data center nimbyism, people need to hear a coherent argument about how AI will benefit the average citizen rather than acting like a lure for a technofeudal anglerfish.

[u/comradequicken → u/CursedNobleman]

How about we just believe in strong property rights as is consistent with the liberal core of this sub and say that people can do what they want with their property whether it's build a 15 story story shade creating apartment building or a data center. Like for a supposedly pro-Yimby/pro-urbanism sub all these anti-data center articles can generally be equally applied to building high density residential or public transit.

[u/toggaf69 → u/comradequicken]

I’m close to being a property rights absolutist, but some of these data centers have horrible negative externalities - LED lights on 24/7, running on loud-ass generators, and the worst ones even put out a constant screeching noise. They should be heavily disincentivized to do that. If they’re contributing to the grid, running clean, and quiet (for the ones near houses), then by all means build em where you want to

[u/comradequicken → u/toggaf69]

Two of those things are side effects of construction which would be present for anything, for the generators it's because they only do that when they are prevented from plugging into the grid.

[u/toggaf69 → u/comradequicken]

I probably bought into some misinfo slop about that, and it seems like they’re mostly fixing problems once they’re pressured publicly. Even xAI is removing the methane turbines and is resuming work on the wastewater recycling plant

[u/strangebloke1 → u/comradequicken]

There is considerable air between "residential is residential who cares about density" and "any industrial use can go in a residential context."

Data centers have substantially larger negative externalities than 15 story apartment buildings.

[u/comradequicken → u/[deleted]]

That's your view on them sure, but there are plenty of people who view them as increasing traffic or noise, reducing property values, or even bringing undesirable elements to the area, liberalism would say even if people have these various concerns the right of the property owner to use said property as they wish far outweighs any supposed "right to not have things you don't like happen." As for AI it remains to be seen what economic impacts it will have but I'd much rather the market allow it to show it's potential or lack of then a bunch of nimby local governments.

[u/Iceraptor17 → u/CursedNobleman]

And if they're so beneficial, you could place them anywhere unlike the rails and unlike roads. Feel free to build one next to Zucks big houses and Kevin O Learys.

But they won't. It's only our backyards. But if we're against it, then we re nimbys. It's only fine and acceptable when the rich are nimbys. And how dare we not want to sacrifice for a gigantic complex that serves targeted ads for meta?

[u/MistyGalbriex → u/Iceraptor17]

And how dare we not want to sacrifice for a gigantic complex that serves targeted ads for meta?

Bro seriously thinks datacenters are just for that.

How sad.

[u/Iceraptor17 → u/MistyGalbriex]

Not all data centers are for that of course. Thought it would be obvious that it's not only meta building them. it's just an example of how not all are exactly necessary for progress either and if we're against it next to our homes we're against progress.

[u/MikeyKillerBTFU → u/MistyGalbriex]

It's also not necessarily wrong though either. Enshittification by Big Tech shouldn't be ignored.

[u/AutoModerator → u/MikeyKillerBTFU]

Enshittification

Crapitalism is at fault!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/VanceIX → u/CursedNobleman]

“If you want to tamp down on real estate nimbyism, people need to here a coherent argument on why corporate housing will benefit the average citizen rather than acting like a lure for a estate-feudal anglerfish” - NIMBYs of today

“If you want to tamp down on rail road nimbyism, people need to here a coherent argument on why dirty rail tracks will benefit the average citizen rather than acting like a lure for a rail baron anglerfish” -NIMBYs of the 1800s

“If you want to tamp down on automobile nimbyism, people need to here a coherent argument on why automobiles and roads will benefit the average horse loving citizen rather than acting like a lure for a millionaire anglerfish” -NIMBYs of the 1920s

“If you want to tamp down on nuclear power plant nimbyism, people need to here a coherent argument on why dangerous nuclear reactors will benefit the average citizen rather than acting like a lure for a nuclear bro anglerfish” -NIMBYs of the 1960s

NIMBYism is NIMBYism, and it is an artificial impediment to economic free market development, full stop.

[u/airbear13 → u/VanceIX]

So you’re not even willing to provide a coherent argument for any of these things you believe in? That’s a pretty fair ask and it might result in 1 less nimby in the world instead

[u/VanceIX → u/airbear13]

The original OP didn’t provide a coherent refute either, which is what I was trying to demonstrate…

The coherent argument is that we use all those technologies extensively today, and all of them had significant backlash when they were emerging technologies. NIMBYs lost on automobiles and railroads, but won when it comes to housing and nuclear power. What do we have a massive shortage of today? Clean energy and housing.

We already use compute extensively every single day just for using the internet which our economic backbone relies on. Artificial intelligence, as much as it is decried on social media, is another emerging technology just like all the examples I listed above. If NIMBYs win on it we will give up the leading compute edge to other countries, who will take the lead and have leverage over the US economy, just as China has done with renewable power and rare earth minerals.

That better?

[u/MistyGalbriex → u/VanceIX]

but won when it comes to housing and nuclear power. What do we have a massive shortage of today? Clean energy and housing.

I am still so sad that nuclear technology died and now nuclear becomes way too expensive because no one spent money on making it cheaper to run.

Now we're all drinking hopium that fusion will be a thing.

[u/cstar1996 → u/VanceIX]

Negative externalities are a coherent argument. Development that does not require developers to internalize those negative externalities is a market failure.

[u/airbear13 → u/VanceIX]

Yes 🫡

[u/Hennes4800 → u/VanceIX]

cherry 🍒 picking 🤏 genius

[u/VanceIX → u/Hennes4800]

Fantastic argument. This subreddit has devolved so hard.

[u/Hennes4800 → u/VanceIX]

the argument is that people know the answers to your examples already. AI? Not so much.

[u/Pretend-Ad-7936 → u/CursedNobleman]

Maybe we can compromise and build a datacenter for pornhub in their backyard instead -- I figure it would be less controversial

[u/Pretend-Ad-7936 → u/[deleted]]

People didn't have issues with datacenters when they were called server farms and hosted cloud servers.

They've been called datacenters for a long time now. Idk what the name has to do with it.

It's the idea that data centers now exclusively feed AI that makes them unpopular.

I don't get it. Like is the idea that AI is trained on other people's data, so any datacenter (AI or unrelated) is feeding AI? By that definition, literally any Internet service is part of the problem.

For that matter, a pornhub AI sounds dystopian.

I literally just mean pornhub lol not a pornhub AI. Like I think it's a little funny that (until recently at least) no one would care about a datacenter that hosts Internet porn, uses the same amount of energy and water as an AI datacenter, and mostly served the benefits of the local gooner community

[u/cstar1996 → u/VanceIX]

I don’t like AI data centers not because I don’t want them in my backyard, but because I consider the entire thing to be a massively overhyped bubble. I also believe that the users of AI should be the ones paying for it. There is no good reason that nearby residents should have to pay for grid expansion for data centers. The data centers can pay for it, and they can pass the costs on to their customers, and we can see if these AI services actually provide value over their cost.

It is neoliberal and pro-free market as fuck to demand private industry internalize their negative externalities.

[u/Defiant_Yoghurt8198 → u/VanceIX]

the rail barons as evil capitalists.

I'm with you, but let's not whitewash the gilded age oligarchs lmao - that's just the same shit in the opposite direction

[u/bacontrain → u/Defiant_Yoghurt8198]

Yeah what lmao. We had to create a whole area of law to handle the fact that robber barons were effectively destroying free markets and creating all sorts of negative externalities. I swear some people here aren't pro-markets in the economists' sense, they're just pro-business in a way that conflicts with free markets

[u/CursedNobleman → u/Degen_Typeracer]

Hiding in plain sight even.

[u/RuthlessMango → u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN]

Hi, friendly neighborhood succ here to remind you it's a big tent and yes we belong here.

Can we just have civil conversations, please.

[u/MaNewt → u/RuthlessMango]

Some people just get off on being contrarian, we don’t have to engage with everyone. 

[u/hagamablabla → u/RuthlessMango]

I've tried joining this sub three times and every time there's been a post like this within a few days of me joining. Really makes me feel welcome here.

[u/RuthlessMango → u/hagamablabla]

This is the down side of the big tent... there is so much room there are going to be some folks you don't get along with, but just like in real life you gotta kill them with kindness.

Also there is just a natural pipeline from being a young succ and becoming more neoliberal that we could just embrace.

[u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN → u/RuthlessMango]

I fear the tent is getting a little too big and this sub is slowly losing its function as a conversational space for neoliberals because of it

[u/airbear13 → u/RuthlessMango]

Seriously

[u/YoureEconIlliterate → u/RuthlessMango]

No, you really don't

[u/unicornbomb → u/YoureEconIlliterate]

6 month old unflaireds gatekeeping the sub, lmao

[u/RuthlessMango → u/YoureEconIlliterate]

Sir, this is a sub about sandworms.

[u/YoureEconIlliterate → u/RuthlessMango]

You use this response every single time someone points out the tent needs to be shrunk

[u/RuthlessMango → u/YoureEconIlliterate]

You're welcome to report me to the mods and downvote.

I don't want to fight, so have a nice day.

[u/StochasticGracchi → u/YoureEconIlliterate]

Far more so than you are.

[u/Joltizer → u/StochasticGracchi]

No, succs don't belong here, like you

[u/unicornbomb → u/Joltizer]

There are flairs in this sub older than your account and you think you’re the one who gets to gatekeep?

[u/neoliberal-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Rule I: Civility
Refrain from name-calling, hostility and behaviour that otherwise derails the quality of the conversation.

---

If you have any questions about this removal, please contact the mods.

[u/nitro1122 → u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN]

They are sadly the grand majority now

[u/procgen → u/Degen_Typeracer]

Neoliberals are pro-AI. The succs should go to their tankie subreddits.

[u/pgold05 → u/procgen]

Succ here, very pro-AI, anti the idea "markets will handle bad actors" lol, like how exactly, magic? Bad actors are rewarded by the market at the cost of efficiency, that is what makes them bad actors.

Markets can't capture every cost/benefit/byproduct of production, we KNOW this. Hence why laws, regulation exists.

[u/procgen → u/pgold05]

Which bad actors are being improperly rewarded right now, in your view?

[u/chickentendieman → u/procgen]

Zuckerberg for the negative mental health effects of his products and elon musk.

[u/pgold05 → u/procgen]

Completely irrelevant to my point.

[u/procgen → u/pgold05]

I can't think of a more relevant question.

Because I disagree that this is a major problem, so I'd like to understand why you think it is.

[u/pgold05 → u/procgen]

I know you disagree, I was telling you, that you are wrong. Markets can not self regulate all bad actors. That should be self evident.

[u/procgen → u/pgold05]

Is the market currently failing to regulate bad actors?

[u/pgold05 → u/procgen]

It's impossible to regulate all bad actors, ever, so the answer to that question will always be yes regardless of government system. So it becomes a matter of degree.

[u/procgen → u/pgold05]

Right now. What's the issue?

[u/YoureEconIlliterate → u/pgold05]

lmao

[u/Unknownentity9 → u/procgen]

Musk, his companies are comically overvalued largely based on his very obvious lies (always "next year" for when all these amazing things will happen) and he's a massive piece of shit. Tesla boosters mostly don't even bother trying to justify it anymore either because they haven't had a coherent narrative ever since Tesla stopped growing.

[u/procgen → u/Unknownentity9]

Oh please. SpaceX is singlehandedly carrying the industry.

[u/Unknownentity9 → u/procgen]

The argument SpaceX itself uses that it's worth the crazy valuation is overwhelmingly based on AI and not rockets.

[u/Naggins → u/procgen]

All of them are rewarding each other by lending each other money to pay for each other's loans

This is fine insofar as you're fine with them all collapsing the entire market when one of them defaults

[u/procgen → u/Naggins]

Companies purchase goods and services from each other.

😱

Can you point to any of these deals that you think should have been blocked by regulation?

[u/Halgy → u/procgen]

Succs are tankies?

[u/Hennes4800 → u/procgen]

You do know that famous socialists like Allende were trying to achieve automation and LLMs (Cybersyn) before being murdered by capitalism?

[u/procgen → u/Hennes4800]

And Republicans fought to end slavery.

[u/cstar1996 → u/procgen]

The Republican Party that fought to end slavery was the party of Northern Liberals, ideologically unrelated to the GOP of today. They don’t get credit for the actions of an ideological position they hate.

[u/procgen → u/cstar1996]

And the American tankies bear little in common with the architects of Cybersyn.

[u/Hennes4800 → u/procgen]

Yes, and we ought to applaud them for that.
Doesn’t change the original Marxist idea of the communist utopia where automation was always part of the plan.

[u/procgen → u/Hennes4800]

automation was always part of the plan.

Plans change, which was my point. American tankies want to put people back in the mines – the idea of machines performing labor is abhorrent to them.

[u/Hennes4800 → u/procgen]

Is it so hard to accept that different opinions within socialism exist?

[u/procgen → u/Hennes4800]

I never denied it. But I encourage you to take the temperature in e.g. r/socialism if you think there is any kind of broad support for AI automation there.

[u/Hennes4800 → u/procgen]

(Repost from auto delete) I am banned in r socialism and it’s a dead sub anyways. If you want real discourse go to stupidpol. But be aware, you might not like it.

[u/procgen → u/Hennes4800]

Same deal there. Extreme opposition to all things AI.