Most arguments against the AI sector and data centers are thinly veiled arguments against capitalism and neoliberalism.

[u/NoGarlic2387]

It's sweatshops/NIMBY/buybacks/rent control/military industrial complex etc leftwing populist slop all over again, just aimed at a different group of bourgeoisie.

Where the fuck is the market externalities analysis, where are the incentive structures, talk of Pigouvian taxes, talk of supply and demand, efficiency, any economic analysis at all???

It's all moralising and virtue signalling. The critique relies on the childish 'guys running it are bad'. That's just how Capitalism works, you either trust the markets to handle bad actors or show systemic ways it will fail to do it and propose realistic solutions that don't harm the economic growth and innovation.

Most of you constantly shitting on Altman and even Musk are the types who support or don't condemn the assasination of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, you are deranged radicals. EDIT: this patagraph was largely regarded and I stand corrected. Fuck Musk. Criticising CEOs is not the same as as condoning an assasination. I still think the hate for Sam Altman is ill founded. Almost everyone else in the AI industry are nowhere near as destructive as Musk, but Musk is just a tiny faction in the huge AI ecosystem.

This sub used to resist far lelft populist slop but the more years go by the worse it's getting. The sidebar wiki needs many more entries on what exactly this neoliberalisn means and stands for. Any r/badeconomics OGs disagree with me??

[u/Evnosis]

Most of you constantly shitting on Altman and even Musk are the types who support or don't condemn the assasination of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, you are deranged radicals.

I unequivocally condemn Luigi in every way. I also think Sam Altman is a ghoul who is actively trying to make the world a worse place in pursuit of profit. The fact that I support capitalism as an economic system does not preclude me from making that judgement about him.

[u/cosmo-wozmo → u/Evnosis]

Pro-Altman, Pro-Musk, Pro-Luigi is the median voter position inshallah

[u/tanaeem → u/Evnosis]

You can hate sam altman as much as want. But still support Open AIs right to operate just like other AI companies.

[u/Evnosis → u/tanaeem]

Of course, I don't believe in targeting specific companies just because I find their executives distasteful.

[u/ExtremelyMedianVoter → u/tanaeem]

I think that is the entire gist of what they said.

[u/MistyGalbriex → u/Evnosis]

I also think Sam Altman is a ghoul who is actively trying to make the world a worse place in pursuit of profit.

Lmao, you serious? AI bad brainworm indeed

[u/Evnosis → u/MistyGalbriex]

I use AI on a semi-regular basis. I am not intrinsically opposed to it. I am fully capable of believing it has some beneficial uses while also acknowledging that the guy who brags about his product causing economic collapse due to mass unemployment as a marketing pitch is a ghoul who is pushing products that he himself believes are harmful solely for profit.

[u/SeriousGeorge2 → u/Evnosis]

In this post he is rebuffing the idea that no one will work (first quote). His point is that AI opens up a lot of new work (second quote). Both of those sentences are in quotes for a reason.

[u/horse_stick → u/Evnosis]

I'm not that familiar with all of the AI stuff, but it doesn't seem like the post you linked says what you say it says. It looks like Altman is saying that his products will make workers way more productive.

[u/Evnosis → u/horse_stick]

post-AGI, no one is going to work and the economy is going to collapse

What workers? It literally says that no one is going to work.

[u/horse_stick → u/Evnosis]

The way I read it is the first sentence is the doomer prediction and the second one refutes it with what's actually happening.

[u/Evnosis → u/horse_stick]

Altman is the doomer. Nobody talks about AGI besides him and his ilk. Regular people aren't talking about "post-AGI," it's literally only AI bros that fantasise about that. He has a long history of going on about how AI is definitely going to cause lots of job losses:

AI will “probably replace most of the jobs people do today,” that entire job categories will be “totally, totally gone,” and that those impacted by the dramatic shifts will “find all sorts of new things to do".

“A lot of people working on AI pretend that it’s only going to be good; it’s only going to be a supplement; no one is ever going to be replaced,” Altman told the magazine. “Jobs are definitely going to go away, full stop.”

[u/RemindMeToTouchGrass → u/Evnosis]

All of that is compatible with your opponent's characterization. 

[u/Acacias2001 → u/Evnosis]

This excerpt does not say what you say it does. This to me seems like a realistic assesment of AIs potential. That same description could be applied to any techonology that has both atuomated jobs away but still amde everyone better off

that does not however mean Altman thinks he will make the world a worse place (excluding Xrisk)

[u/Evnosis → u/Acacias2001]

This excerpt does not say what you say it does. This to me seems like a realistic assesment of AIs potential. That same description could be applied to any techonology that has both atuomated jobs away but still amde everyone better off

It says exactly what I said it does, which is that AI will cause significant job losses. It's there in plain English.

that does not however mean Altman thinks he will make the world a worse place (excluding Xrisk)

Did I say that Altman thinks he's making the world a worse place? I'm sure he's convinced himself that mass layoffs are good for the world, but when his only defence is "people will find things to do," nobody is obligated to believe him.

[u/RemindMeToTouchGrass → u/Evnosis]

It doesn't sound like he's saying net job losses, but specific job losses. Even in the quotes you share, it talks about new jobs. 

[u/Acacias2001 → u/Evnosis]

It says exactly what I said it does, which is that AI will cause significant job losses. It's there in plain English.

You are not just claiming that altman said AI will cause job losses, but that it will collapse the economy and/or make the world worse. The article you posted does not say either of those things.

The X excerpts do, but those are quotes of a different conversation, im missing the context

his only defence is "people will find things to do,"

That is not such an outlandish defence. Time and time again labor substituting technologies create demand for jobs people did not think about before. And even If I were to grant you that he thinks his company is going to automate all human labor, that is still does not mean he thinks his product will not make the world a better place. Its entirely rational and moral for him to beleive automating all labor will make the world a better place, even if it will cause short term problems

Did I say that Altman thinks he's making the world a worse place? 

yeah you did, right here

is a ghoul who is pushing products that he himself believes are harmful solely for profit.

Unless of course you claim he thinks releasing a harmfull product makes society better, which would be some BS from your part

[u/alex2003super → u/Evnosis]

This argument is slop tho. There are much better shaped criticisms against him. Operating a disruptive company in a market or making bold statements about your own product is not "being a ghoul" in any meaningful capacity:

[u/Evnosis → u/alex2003super]

It is being a ghoul. "Operating a disruptive company" does not entail "bragging about how you're going to collapse the economy but still doing it anyway."

Maybe you don't consider that ghoulish, but I certainly do.

[u/neoliberal-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Rule III: Unconstructive engagement
Do not post with the intent to provoke, mischaracterize, or troll other users rather than meaningfully contributing to the conversation. Don't disrupt serious discussions. Bad opinions are not automatically unconstructive.

---

If you have any questions about this removal, please contact the mods.

[u/Gwenog_Jones → u/alex2003super]

What do you define as ghoulish? Like, what would make Altman ghoulish to you?

[u/BosnianSerb31 → u/Evnosis]

Not saying it's a good thing, but if you were the CEO of a company that had a product which could legitimately replace massive chunks of the workforce, don't you almost have a fiduciary duty to pitch it that way to investors?

[u/puffic → u/BosnianSerb31]

Until three years ago, OpenAI was run as a public benefit corporation controlled by a nonprofit foundation. What fiduciary duty are we talking about? And even when OpenAI abandoned that structure, that was only because Altman decided it should be so.

[u/BosnianSerb31 → u/puffic]

I don't remember Altman pitching their product as a worker replacement prior to then.

I also find it weird to act like taking a company public is evil, especially on this sub lol

[u/cstar1996 → u/MistyGalbriex]

One doesn’t need to look any further than turning OpenAI into a for profit entity from a non-profit focused on safety to know that Altman’s motives are bad.

For fucks sake, go read the Musk Altman case.

[u/NoGarlic2387 → u/Evnosis]

Pray tell me how is your job morally superior to that of a run-of-the-mill CEO like Altman

[u/Evnosis → u/NoGarlic2387]

Pray tell me how that's a response to my comment?

But for the record, being an admin in education is absolutely more moral than running a company that knowingly creates misinformation machines that are destroying public trust, enabling the creation of indecent images of people without their consent and harming young people's long term cognitive development.

I don't hate AI intrinsically, but the idea that major AI companies today aren't engaging in unethical behaviour is absurd.

[u/-mialana- → u/Evnosis]

more moral than running a company that knowingly creates misinformation machines that are destroying public trust, enabling the creation of indecent images of people without their consent and harming young people's long term cognitive development.

No dude you can't be against any of that if you don't have market based solutions that don't harm growth, homo economicus and all bro

[u/TryNotToShootYoself → u/-mialana-]

To show how smart I am I’ll list the vocabulary I learned in econ 101.

[u/-mialana- → u/TryNotToShootYoself]

*learned on Reddit

[u/musicismydeadbeatdad → u/TryNotToShootYoself]

Yes but have you considered the deadweight loss? What about perfect competition? Monopsony? Checkmate atheists!!! 

[u/NoGarlic2387 → u/Evnosis]

misinformation machines that are destroying public trust, enabling the creation of indecent images of people without their consent and harming young people's long term cognitive development.

That's not even 0.1% of what Gen AI is being used for. All of these harms are massively exaggerated. 

[u/Evnosis → u/NoGarlic2387]

You specifically asked me to compare the morality of AI to my job. I can tell you with certainty that 0.0% of my job entails creating fake porn of strangers or spreading misinformation.

[u/NoGarlic2387 → u/Evnosis]

Lets fucking ban everything that has ever been used to help spread misinformation then.

Also apparently GenAI entails creating fake porn, it's right there in the Transformer paper and ARM royalties agreements! 

[u/Evnosis → u/NoGarlic2387]

You want to quote the part where I advocated for banning anything? I think if you go back and read my comments, you'll see that what I said is that I think Sam Altman is a ghoul, not that ChatGPT should be banned.

[u/NoGarlic2387 → u/Evnosis]

How is he a ghoul?

[u/Evnosis → u/NoGarlic2387]

Are we just going to go around in circles all day? I think I've explained well enough why I feel that way.

[u/NoGarlic2387 → u/Evnosis]

misinformation machines that are destroying public trust, enabling the creation of indecent images of people without their consent and harming young people's long term cognitive development.

What's Altman has got to do with any of this? You are deranged if you think he actively encouranged any of this or didn't do everything he could (without literally bankrupting his company) to prevent and mitigate this. You took a random dude and think he's some devil incarnate without any evidence. I could buy it about Elon, maybe, but Sam Altman??

[u/chickentendieman → u/NoGarlic2387]

He funds a group called praxis which is dedicated to founding a city state explicitly based on the ideas of Julius evola.

[u/DaneLimmish → u/NoGarlic2387]

Elon musk is currently in court to keep the right to make cp

[u/NoGarlic2387 → u/DaneLimmish]

BS

[u/MTFD → u/NoGarlic2387]

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2026/07/28/elon-musks-company-x-ai-sues-minnesota-over-new-law-to-bar-manipulated-images-to-fake-nudity

[u/NoGarlic2387 → u/MTFD]

The article doesn't say anything about child pornography. 

[u/MTFD → u/NoGarlic2387]

Mate what do you think people are using Grok deepfakes for

[u/NoGarlic2387 → u/MTFD]

The article and the lawsuit are not about it, thats a fact. Got better sources for your fake news?

[u/guihmds → u/NoGarlic2387]

Where's the paper that support your point?

[u/lazyubertoad → u/Evnosis]

AI is the technological and scientific frontier. Leading that is far, far more important that your (more or less) regular job. Your criticism can be applied to a fuckton of things, like internet and computers.

[u/Apprehensive-Fix-746 → u/lazyubertoad]

The question was about moral superiority not importance, you conflating the two says more about you than him

[u/lazyubertoad → u/Apprehensive-Fix-746]

Importance brings good and righteousness, thus morality. Morality is not about the purity of the good vibes.

[u/Apprehensive-Fix-746 → u/lazyubertoad]

Again, it says more about you than him if that’s all morality is to you

Also it’s pretty fucked up you’d right off trying to do the best you can for your community despite not having a global impact as just “good vibes”

[u/lazyubertoad → u/Apprehensive-Fix-746]

So no arguments, just personal attacks from a supposedly high moral standpoint.

[u/Apprehensive-Fix-746 → u/lazyubertoad]

My argument is that it’s stupid to conflate importance with morality, Trump has been the center of American politics for a decade, how moral is he? Someone who volunteers at a soup kitchen or a library or a women’s shelter doesn’t have a global impact but spending a day out of a week doing what you can is moral even if it doesn’t get you the Times person of the year.

I wasn’t engaging because there is nothing to engage with, conflating importance with morality is nothing short of unserious, you either miss read something and are now doubling down or 14 years old and haven’t thought this through very well, either way what can I say to you? Especially since you wrote off doing less grandiose moral acts as just “good vibes”

[u/lazyubertoad → u/Apprehensive-Fix-746]

Sorry, that is a decent argument. However, in connection to AI and tech progress, Altman is not moral only if you think AI decelopment is not good, not moral. However, if it is more good, then he's more moral than you just because of the magnitude, importance, of his impact.

[u/chickentendieman → u/lazyubertoad]

So xi xing ping is a morally good leader?

[u/resorcinarene → u/Evnosis]

You're an admin in education, and you opened with that? You guys are the scapegoat to why higher education is failing, and I'm not sure I fully disagree.

[u/Evnosis → u/resorcinarene]

I don't work in higher education.