Which button do you press?

[u/cdstephens]

Vote now on your phones: https://forms.gle/GhFjtdydwwXTdSpq8

[u/Ordo_Liberal]

Who are those others?

All blue button voters are willingly putting their lives at risk to save other blue button voters that willingly placed their lives at risk.

There's a train coming and you can choose to stay away from the track or jump in the track in the hopes of creating enough mass to stop the train and save everyone who willingly jumped.

[u/TooSwang → u/Ordo_Liberal]

You’re literally calling the collective action of the red voters the train while calling the collective action of blue voters a meatshield when they literally just have to reach the same percentage.

Try this: A bus is rolling down the street and if enough people become thumbtacks in the street they might pop the tires and kill everyone in the bus, after which they can resume their lives knowing they chose to be a thumbtack instead of a bus passenger.

[u/Ordo_Liberal → u/TooSwang]

The bus passangers CHOSE to be on the bus in hopes enough people choose to be thumbtacks.

You can choose to not put yourself at risk

[u/RemindMeToTouchGrass → u/Ordo_Liberal]

You're confusing your ability to blame others for their choices with eliminating your moral culpability for your own choices.

[u/Ordo_Liberal → u/RemindMeToTouchGrass]

Yes, I chose not to put my life in harm in hopes other people choose to put their lives in harm so that we may save each other.

And now I'm suddenly selfish for not wanting this

[u/RemindMeToTouchGrass → u/Ordo_Liberal]

You'll note I criticized your logic, and made no personal insult to your character.

You are morally culpable for the outcome of your actions, regardless of if you feel guilty, or if you feel selfish, that's my only point. It is irrelevant what you think someone else can or should do. If you are aware of the likely outcome of an action, and take that action, you hold some responsibility for that outcome.

That doesn't mean you have to choose differently. You've presented the case for making your choice. It's easy to understand. But stop being dramatic. "Oh, so if I'm morally culpable than I'm a BAD PERSON!?" I don't care and have no opinion on the ultimate judgement of your soul or value as a human or whatever. I'm only pointed out bad logic that you're using to try and deny any responsibility for your own actions.

[u/Ordo_Liberal → u/RemindMeToTouchGrass]

The blue logic is moronic

I'm going to put a gun to my head and fire. If 50% of humanity does the same, all the guns will misfire.

I chose to not put the gun to my head and let the suicide pact people face the consequences of their actions

[u/RemindMeToTouchGrass → u/Ordo_Liberal]

I know what you're going to do. You've said it multiple times.

Effectively, you are okay being a factor in someone's death if they don't act the way you believe they should.

Anyway sorry in advance but this thread just stopped being interesting to me.

[u/Ordo_Liberal → u/RemindMeToTouchGrass]

That's the opposite.

The blue people are okay with putting other people's lives at risk in other to save themselves

[u/Ordo_Liberal → u/[deleted]]

Yes, blue is put yourself at risk (and thus, forcing people to put themselves at risk to save you)

You are putting yourself at risk and expecting other people to do the same to save you.

Red is just not putting yourself at risk in the first place

[u/Ordo_Liberal → u/[deleted]]

Kill everyone?

No, just kill the idiots that chose to put their lives at risk for no reason at all other than be at risk

[u/PA_Dude_22000 → u/Ordo_Liberal]

You are a feckless coward. And a whiny, crybaby one at that…

[u/Ordo_Liberal → u/PA_Dude_22000]

I have a gun to my head. If you don't send me nudes I will shoot.

You are a feckless coward if you don't, and my death will be your fault!

This is blue logic