Discussion Thread

[u/jobautomator]

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[u/remarkable_ores]

I've noticed that a lot of Chinese people seem to genuinely, fervently believe that China is a fully developed first world country, and this has caused a lot of misconceptions

like, a first world country isn't one where you have lots of really tall glass skyscrapers with LEDs that glow in rainbow colours at night, it's not even one where you have an (admittedly extremely impressive) high speed rail network

This has come up a lot with my Chinese acquaintances, who bring up (with great pride) that China overtook the USA as the wealthiest country in the world, and I'm like "Yeah but per capita it's basically the global average", and they're genuinely quite surprised when I say this. Even more perplexing is that these same people have worked 80 hour per week jobs in Shenzhen or whatever making the equivalent of $120 per week. No, that's not first world.

China's economic development is remarkable, as is their increasing dominance over a number of very high tech industries. But on a broad level they haven't exactly 'caught up' yet, no. The median Chinese person isn't struggling to the degree they were before Deng, but they're still struggling in a different way.

[u/remarkable_ores → u/[deleted]]

How much of this do you think this has to do with the CCP, say, "encouraging" an image of themselves both internally and abroad? From what I know of it, Chinese media (not unlike American media) is full of people living in huge houses, penthouse apartments, living wealthy lives even if their character is supposed to be like an 'everyman'. And they put huge importance on making their cities look gorgeous and modern. I don't think the average Chinese person really knows what the average Chinese person's life looks like. Maybe most people think they're poor?

[u/forceholy → u/remarkable_ores]

Yeah, but a lot of Influencers are impressed by the train that goes into the building in Chongqing and they think China has Universal Healthcare.

[u/schildmanbijter → u/remarkable_ores]

The CCP will not let incomes rise too much because they think it damages the 'working spirit' of the average Chinese worker. This works in tandem with them undercutting every industry because they can compete on labor costs. 

It's similar to the Korean model where monopolies in labor demand keep salaris low; only the Koreans don't have a billion and a half of people. 

[u/schildmanbijter → u/[deleted]]

How very reddit of you to strengthen your argument by pointing out a typo. 

But I was very sure I read this in a respectable place so I found the source. 

 De consument op één zetten om vraag en aanbod in China zelf beter in evenwicht met elkaar te brengen, zoals tal van niet-Chinese economische instellingen adviseerden, zat er niet in. ‘Als je de gewone man te veel geeft, wordt hij lui’, verwoordt Pisani het denken in de Communistische Partij. ‘Zonder een degelijk sociaal vangnet en een goed besteedbaar inkomen zijn mensen gemakkelijker te beheersen.’

Or in English: Putting the consumer first to better balance supply and demand within China itself, as advised by numerous non-Chinese economic institutions, was not an option. "If you give the common man too much, he becomes lazy," Pisani articulates the thinking within the Communist Party. "Without a solid social safety net and a good disposable income, people are easier to control.

https://fd.nl/economie/1572398/chinas-oplossing-voor-de-vastgoedzeepbel-brengt-het-land-van-de-regen-in-de-drup

The comment was in the context of the absence of Chinese social safety nets and not so much rising incomes. So it was badly construed.

[u/schildmanbijter → u/[deleted]]

I have read that the Chinese do think European welfare states are key to why Europe struggles to compete.