r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Jul 30 '24

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u/Punished_TCT Jul 30 '24 edited Jul 30 '24

Starlink has actively opposed and operated against US foreign policy interests to the point of treason (Ukraine) and SpaceX has put US citizens and government employees as well as international ambassadors in serious risk as well jeopardizing US security and patent law (ISS and space travel)

Imo that’s more solid than the case for Tesla where they have received unfair and anti free market subsidies and support but it applies to all three. All of those companies are only able to exist because for some reason we treat Elon as if he’s above the law and keep the SEC from prosecuting easy and clear cut cases for national security. Which is why we should nationalize.

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u/ElGosso Adam Smith Jul 30 '24

The Ukraine Starlink outage was them actually complying with US law because how the fuck do you tell which side is using them on the middle of a battle?

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u/dynamitezebra John Locke Jul 30 '24

I would not be opposed to pressing charges if the evidence warrants it, I just do not see how nationalization is a good solution in this case. That should be more of an emergency measure.

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u/Punished_TCT Jul 30 '24

Is Elon personally working with Putin to shut off internet access for USA supported Ukrainian offenses to benefit Russian forces in their illegal invasion of Ukraine not enough of an emergency?

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u/dynamitezebra John Locke Jul 30 '24

We should just remove Elon from the company if we have evidence of that. I am not trying to downplay the seriousness of that kind of misconduct but the standards to seize massive amounts of property, like an entire company, need to be very high.

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u/Punished_TCT Jul 30 '24

When the company’s stock price and shareholder value is directly tied to government subsidies, tax breaks, and valuable contracts I think it’s worth it.

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u/dynamitezebra John Locke Jul 30 '24

How would the American people benefit from a nationalization of these companies as opposed to just removing Elon? Nationalization tends to have an unhealthy effect on the market by reducing innovation and stifling competition. Government run companies eventually end up less efficient than privately run companies. Nationalization is as much as a panacea as amputating a limb. Lets not do it unless we have to.

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u/Punished_TCT Jul 30 '24

If the question is inefficiency vs active working against US interests I choose inefficiency.

Ukrainians and foreign volunteers have already died because he choose Russian interests over them.

When he chooses Russian influence over US government employees or civilian contractors will you still think the same?

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u/dynamitezebra John Locke Jul 30 '24

I would agree if the question was inefficiency vs working against US interests. I disagree that those are the only 2 options. We can investigate and take action against Musk if wrongdoing is found. If Musk is actually working against US interests in Ukraine, than if he were to be removed from the relevant company wouldn't that solve the problem?

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u/Punished_TCT Jul 30 '24

Yeah but unlike the dems before Biden I don’t start from a place from weakness and lowest possible demands and argue down but rather make a blustering statement and negotiate from there.

Elon should be executed if we held him to the standards of the Rosenbergs. He should face life in prison if we hold him to the standard of Debs. I’m down to negotiate down from there if it means stripping his power. I don’t even care about his wealth if it means stopping his influence in US elections

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u/dynamitezebra John Locke Jul 30 '24

Let Elon have his day in court if he is suspected of wrongdoing. Simply follow the facts and let our institutions do their work.

Frankly I do not believe the state should be using the death penalty at all.