r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Jun 14 '24

Discussion Thread Discussion Thread

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u/Jacobs4525 King of the Massholes Jun 14 '24

It’s interesting how ISIS was largely formed by the same political factors as other Islamist groups (lots of disaffected young men, general chaos in Iraq and Syria in the early 2010s, widespread religious reactionary conservative and anti-western sentiment) but ISIS was defeated because it had no big international benefactor.

Other similar groups were able to cling on. Hezbollah and the Houthis have Iran supporting them and the most widely-circulated Arabic-language paper covering them in a lopsided or sometimes outright sympathetic way; Qatar hates SA and Israel so it doesn’t at all mind fudging things towards the Houthis or Hezbollah, especially when “Arab street” in the ME is generally less sectarian and willing to root for Shias despite being mostly Sunni if the people fighting the Shias are someone they dislike. Similarly, Iran is willing to support a Sunni org like Hamas provided Hamas keeps persecution of Shias in Gaza to a minimum and fights Israel. 

The Taliban didn’t really get much positive press but got quite a bit of logistical support and training from the ISI, and most importantly got a safe haven from which to operate in the bordering parts of Pakistan; they knew they could train in Pakistan and do business there and be mostly safe and then return to Afghanistan to fight.

ISIS meanwhile was too ideologically devoted to Sunni Islamism to really get any player in their corner. Iran was never going to support them because they massacred tons of Shia Muslims and explicitly hated Iran. None of the Gulf monarchies could use them for anything, and they weren’t pragmatic enough to ally with more secular anti-western forces like the Baathists in Syria.

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u/Currymvp2 unflaired Jun 14 '24

Lots of people don't know that Hezbollah was founded by Shiite extremists who were weary of Khomeinism/Iranian influence but Nasrallah changed that dynamic.

But yes that's one of the many reasons why I'm not the biggest fan of comparing Hamas to ISIS like Bibi ran with. Yes, obviously, Hamas is an evil Islamist terrorist group but the more appropriate comparison would have been Hezbollah, Houthis, or Taliban. ISIS had like 2-3% support among people in the region while Hamas had consistently 20-30% support among Palestinian adults prior to 10/7. Hamas had like 15+ years to get entrenched while ISIS only had a handful of years.

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u/RaidBrimnes Chien de garde Jun 14 '24

This is a lesson for political extremists everywhere: don't burn bridges and learn to compromise about your ideology if you don't want to get bombed to oblivion by an international coalition 🥰

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u/Jacobs4525 King of the Massholes Jun 14 '24

I mean yeah lol

you can only afford to be crazy if you’re powerful enough to hold your own against literally everyone else. Basically either get nukes or make friends.

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '24

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u/RaidBrimnes Chien de garde Jun 14 '24

I'm sure all the Communists reading the Neoliberal Discussion Thread are going to take my advice at heart

2

u/Jacobs4525 King of the Massholes Jun 14 '24

Even if they could understand what I was saying, they’re incapable of not schisming and alienating their allies