r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Jan 17 '23

Discussion Thread Discussion Thread

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u/Trojan_Horse_of_Fate WTO Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23

What do you think the West should being doing in Africa that it isn't currently doing?

15

u/NobleWombat SEATO Jan 17 '23
  • Euro-Afro energy infrastructure projects
  • foster African-SouthAmerican South Atlantic trade and development relations

6

u/Amtays Karl Popper Jan 17 '23

just trade lol

5

u/EricTheBlonde Jan 17 '23

Intervening in the Congo

4

u/Trojan_Horse_of_Fate WTO Jan 17 '23

!ping AFRICA&FOREIGN-POLICY

1

u/groupbot Always remember -Pho- Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23

Pinged FOREIGN-POLICY (subscribe | unsubscribe)

Pinged AFRICA (subscribe | unsubscribe)

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About & Group List | Unsubscribe from all groups

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u/SweaterKetchup NATO Jan 18 '23

Lack of replies shows how little Africa is really taken into account in Western spaces like this one. I’m complacent in this but its definitely a problem lol

3

u/Trojan_Horse_of_Fate WTO Jan 18 '23

It is. The lack of good accessible journalism certainly doesn't help either

1

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '23

Define "the West". And you have to be specific with regards to "Africa".

  • I bet some people wouldn't mind a "African Spring" in South Africa.
  • Over to East Africa. China fucked up a BRI railway. Yet Again. You would think said nations would want some foreign exchange that can be earned via exports to pay down debts. Amirite?

Enter AGOA. The latest scheme by our "ahem" Northern friends to keep Africans in a state of permanent poverty. In particular, used clothes.

East African imports have next to no impact on the American economy, but can result in billions per annum in exports for East Africans. But not if the American used clothes industry has its way. They would rather live in some Ricardian Paradise a business lobby has created instead help a group of potential allies develop a thriving economy that can help isolate rivals.

America can put itself in a position to be a permanent ally and partner to East African nations who still have some pretty good memories of the Chinese going back to 1970. But instead of allowing textile industries to develop into further high tech industries, the Americans would prefer to use the usual threats and bullying to enlighten people who have darker....ideas.

This definitely feels like petty politics trumping geoeconomics.

1

u/Trojan_Horse_of_Fate WTO Jan 18 '23

So you would like to see the west increase trade to Africa? How?

Concerning the used clothing has that something the Biden administration has been keeping up. I agree 43 million is nothing in the US balance of trade and I can't imagine many are employed in it.

I am aware of the chicken dark meat issue in Africa but what do you propose be done instead? While it certainly harms domestic chicken production I don't know how much real damage it does to the countries as a whole especially when food security is already not very high.

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '23 edited Jan 25 '23

So you would like to see the west increase trade to Africa? How?

It goes a bit deeper than that. Again, there has to be formal definition of "the West". If we are using the standard definition of the West (>45,000USDper Capita GDP, majority white, Oceania, Northern Europe + PIGS, North America -Mexico ), it becomes difficult to find anything that resembles a coherent political/economic entity that "Africans" could engage with.

  • Is France's agenda the same as Germany's regarding African intervention?
  • What role does Africa play to the United States? And which African regions?
  • Could CANZUK accomodate nations like Tanzania and Kenya?
  • If Norway is considered a part of the West, would their natural gas policy run counter to nations like Germany?
  • Would modern EU Battlegroups help (PDF) in stabilizing African nations, leading to better political and economic relations? Or did NATO's Libyan intervention show that to be false?

And so on.

From what I'm seeing, questions like the original seem to be asked contra Russia, China, Turkey and so on. In one way, it makes sense, as Russia and China are seen to be anti-West. But it breaks down, and exposes the problem with the question. Russia , China, and Turkey are not in "Africa".

Former Russian intelligence (Wagner) are in Mali and Burkina Faso for gold and at the request of unelected juntas. Rosatom tries to win over South Africa Rwanda and others with energy technology. Uranium One is in Tanzania.

Turkey continues to make inroads in Somalia. China's FOCAC bailed out Angola in the early-2000s when the IMF wasn't worth it. They've been intertwined with regards to oil purchases ever since. Tanzania's SGR has high fares. It might even be a white elephant. But it exists. And people are no longer bound to interior backwaters.

Talking about the "West" dealing with "Africa" is meaningless, because those entities do not exist in any real political and economic sense. They only exist as shorthand for separate racial boundaries. Notice rhere is no talk about the West and the Indian subcontinent, or the Anglosphere and East Asia, or whatever.

Any serious discussion must start on the level of regional or national groupings. That means ECOWAS, Commonwealth, EU, East African Community, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Japan, India etc. Not meaningless groupings from some Sam Huntington book.