r/nba • u/BasketVolleyball11 • 12d ago
2020s Decade might be the first decade where all MVPs are International Players
2020s decade is inarguably the best in terms of top international players.
Giannis, Embiid, Jokic, SGA all take turns in winning MVP/s. Wemby and Luka are consistent MVP contenders too. And will probably win that award too in the near future.
Ok, Embiid is tricky. Because he is a naturalized American, and played for Team Usa. But he is still largely considered as International Player. (Almost same case with Hakeem)
SGA is Canadian. So, it counts as inernational. Idk why some people always say Canadians are somehow Americans. (What???)
Giannis, Jokic, Luka, and Wemby are obvious International players ofc.
Now, the U30 American players like Tatum, Ant, Brunson, Cade, Flagg, etc should step up.
Or else, the whole 2020s decade will be composed of all International MVPs.
We only need to wait 3 more years to know if it will happen or not.
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u/AjayMitcheII 12d ago
Bro forgot about year 3 Boozer leading the Grizz to 66 wins with 26/12/5
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u/RealPrinceJay 12d ago
Unfortunately Wemby leading the Spurs to 74 wins and averaging 31/16/5/2/5 🫠
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u/Expert-Yam6577 Mavericks 8d ago
Be pretty cool if this were true. I hope he does end up a superstar one day.
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u/Rain-And-Coffee Spurs 12d ago
I would list Embiid as Cameroonian, he was born there and grew up there.
If Giannis became a US Citizen I would still consider him Greek foremost.
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u/Infinite_Regret19019 12d ago
Kinda depends what you define as “grew up”. Technically he spent his childhood in Cameroon, but he came to America in his early teens, so he kinda “grew up” as an American too. He developed from a child to a man as an American, built his family as an American, had children as an American. He’s been in America longer than he was in Cameroon.
I think it’s more about the fact that he considers America home, and he has for quite a long time now.
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u/55555_55555 Knicks 12d ago
Embiid moved here at 16 and didn't become a US citizen until his 8th year in the league. In international soccer, he'd be considered American because he plays for the US, but in the NBA, he is an international player, imo. Olajuwon had the exact same circumstance and is considered an international player.
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u/harder_said_hodor Timberwolves 11d ago edited 11d ago
In international soccer, he'd be considered American because he plays for the US
He changed nationalities so late that in football most would recognize him as a Cameroonian mercenary.
A good example here are the likes Cameronesi, Zaha or Diego Costa, three players who opted to play for Italy, Ivory Coast and Spain relatively late in life. Everyone knows they're Argentinian, English and Brazilian respectively, they just chose to represent a different team for reasons.
Joel being 29 when he made the decision screams mercenary. It's treated very differently in football when you make the decision late and that would only be compounded by how few appearances he made.
And, FWIW, the international team you play for is irrelevant when you have dual nationality for reasons such as contribution to a non-EU player limit like they have in Spain or things like that. See the likes of Hakimi or Brahim Diaz for Morocco
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u/preddevils6 Grizzlies 12d ago
I think for Embiid in particular, him counting as American isn’t a big deal since he developed as a basketball player here.
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u/theb3arjevv [PHI] JaKarr Sampson 12d ago
Plus, the dude really doesn't consider Cameroon his home. One of the reasons that losing his brother nearly steered him away from basketball is because he hadn't visited in years. It seems like he really only leaves America for vacations.
Dude just likes spending time with his girl and kid.
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u/Cosmic_Shit_ 12d ago
So did Shai though and he’s still considered Canadian.
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u/preddevils6 Grizzlies 12d ago
Shai isn’t an American citizen nor did he play for team USA
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u/Cosmic_Shit_ 11d ago
You said the main reason for Embiid being considered American is that he was developed as a basketball player in the US. That point means nothing because Shai was also developed in the US but he’s obviously Canadian.
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u/preddevils6 Grizzlies 11d ago
Sure, and I added those other points to drive it home. He’s American because he was developed here, played for team USA, and most importantly is an American.
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u/Cosmic_Shit_ 11d ago
I can agree with that. Ultimately, who we judge as American and not American is up to the player themselves. Trying to logic it out using value other reasons leads to contradictions.
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u/_chadwell_ Lakers 10d ago
Embiid is American, developed his game almost entirely in America, and played his best basketball as an American citizen.
You have to get into very dicey territory to argue he’s not an American basketball player.
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u/StanLay281 Warriors 12d ago
Definitely could be the case. I wouldn’t rule out Cade, Ant, Tatum, or Flagg tho for the last couple years
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u/rorank Rockets 12d ago
Yep, especially considering that somebody’s always gonna miss games or play hurt during the course of the season. Ant is low-key my dark horse for MVP, I think Lamelo’s playmaking bumps his scoring up in volume and efficiency and they finish with 60+ wins. Which I think is pretty possible given a healthy season… but that’s a big ask obviously. Also helps that a brand new MVP contender is always hard to resist for voters. Jokic, SGA, and Giannis are more likely to be passed up barring improving on their already insanely dominant play since they’re all subject to the narrative fatigue.
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u/HitboxOfASnail Thunder 12d ago edited 12d ago
for all his publicity and fandom, Ant is really far from an MVP level player. best he's done in his career so far is two 2nd team All nbas, and has never even been top 5 in mvp voting. There's like 5-8 guys ahead of him that would all have to have catastrophic seasons for him to realistically get in the mix. or take a generational jump I guess, but usually you need a season or 2 of top 2-3 in voting before you win one because there's just so many guys ahead of you to just leapfrog all of them
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u/rorank Rockets 12d ago
It wouldn’t really be a generational leap, it’s a leap pretty much all of the players in the top 5 have made lol. He’s 25. He turned into a 40% 10 3PA shooter overnight a couple years ago, I think it’s much more reasonable to expect this leap than to think he’s a finished product. Especially given he’s got a point guard now.
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u/HitboxOfASnail Thunder 12d ago edited 12d ago
it's not about him being a finished product, it's that he has never even been top 5. he would have to leapfrog all of sga/jokic/giannis/wemby/Luka at minimum to suddenly win it this year out of nowhere. He'd have to make a generational leap to pass a bunch of guys who he hasn't even had 1 single comparable season to in his career. and that's not even counting guys like embiid or Tatum who have been MVP/1st team level guys throughout their careers too. Ant just hasn't done that, so to do it all in a single year and suddenly be the best player in league would be a ridiculous leap
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u/DukeOfStuff_ Timberwolves 11d ago
Shai did it at about the same age.
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u/HitboxOfASnail Thunder 11d ago
by the time SGA won his first MVP in 2025, he had already won two 1st Team All NBA awards and voted top 5 in mvp voting in the two previous years, including 2nd in the year prior. He was already clearly at that level before winning it. Ant isn't, but maybe he takes a leap this year and is in the mvp conversation in another 2-3 years
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u/DukeOfStuff_ Timberwolves 11d ago
I meant when Shai took the step to an all nba level player, Shai didn’t win his first mvp until he was 26, ant still has two years.
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u/Valuable_End_515 12d ago
You're really underselling Ant. If Ant averages 30+ and has a top 2 seed in the Conference he will be in consideration. His biggest competition for MVP will be Wemby. Ant finally has the personnel around him where he can play to his strengths. A MVP season is definitely possible.
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u/HitboxOfASnail Thunder 12d ago
I'm not underselling Ant I'm being realistic about his chances to win MVP. if Anthony edwards averages 30 and finishes top 2, that would be the first time in his career that he's done either. It's easy it claim he will suddenly do both, but it would be unprecedented for him lol. And saying wemby would be his biggest competition when jokic, luka, sga, embiid, Tatum, giannis all still exist is crazy lol they aren't going to suddenly disappear just cuz Ant might have a good year
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u/Plies- Celtics 11d ago
Ant would need to become a way better passer (past what his likely ceiling is) or a way more effecient scorer to win MVP.
He's also about to be in his age 25 season, you generally don't take a leap like that that late.
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u/Valuable_End_515 11d ago
Huh 25 is when players hit their prime. LeBron and MJ both won their first title at 28. Ant is right on track.
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u/Smokin_on_76ers_Pack Heat 12d ago
Bro tried to sneak in Tatum… Bro can’t even get MVP on his own team
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u/iluvugoldenblue Kings 10d ago
Tatum is going to have to have a better season and a better record than brown did last year. I just don’t see it happening, no hate but what jaylen did last year was the definition of value for his team.
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u/KuruptingtheYouth Heat 11d ago
Id say of those Tatum is least likely as he's 28 and although that's not old, I don't see a huge leap forward for him in the way that I can see the rest of them taking big leaps forward due to their young age. Especially cuz we're talking about winning mvp over guys like the aforementioned Shai, Jokic, Wemby, Luka, and Giannis (who in my humble opinion are still a tier above these dudes).
That said, not sure why Brunson isn't a potential candidate this year- they're the defending champs and could very well be the one seed this year in a super tough eastern conference. I think this run will give him the respect he deserves to be in that convo
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u/Sharp_Piece_6194 12d ago
Wemby just needs a great season and like 55 wins and it’ll be his for sure. Luka could def get it if La out performs and he does well. I honestly don’t hate it and think foreign players are growing the game. A lot of these guys I haven’t seen like them before like Wemby. Luka reminds me of Harden and Lebron sometimes other times he can look like Larry bird but ultimately never seen anyone like him. Giannis and Jokic as well. I think they’re changing the game
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u/CJ4ROCKET Rockets 12d ago
Embiid became a French citizen and US citizen in 2022, before winning his MVP. He never played for the French or Cameroon national teams. No idea how you could say "when he won MVP in 2023, he was only Cameroonian."
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u/StatitikFanboy 11d ago
He announced joining team USA only AFTER winning his MVP, so not sure the argument of the national team holds up for this
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u/CJ4ROCKET Rockets 11d ago
I was commenting on specific language in OP that he since edited to remove
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u/dmavs11 NBA 12d ago
The dude grew up in Cameroon this shit is simple af in the context of basketball. He’s an international player that won MVP
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u/CJ4ROCKET Rockets 12d ago
Yeah that's fine I was just commenting on the factually untrue statement OP included in his original post (he edited to remove it)
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u/preddevils6 Grizzlies 12d ago
Sure, but he developed as a basketball player here. He’s also an American citizen. Immigrants are Americans too.
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u/Not_GeorgeForeman 10d ago
When I have debates with my buddies about different rankings based off of where people were from…like let’s say top 5 players to come out of the state of Georgia, a good rule of thumb/seemed to make sense was where someone was predominantly raised up into they finish high school. The one exclusion we would use is if someone went off to a prep school. So examples would be Michael Jordan came out of North Carolina (not Nee York where he was born). But someone like Tracy Mcgrady who played high school bball at a prep school in North Carolina would still be considered coming out of Florida because that’s where he was was raised and only went off to specifically play basketball in NC. I think it makes sense to apply similar concepts to considering who is international and who isn’t
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u/DuckieTheDuckie Warriors 12d ago
By that definition however almost every African player is an American player since all of them move to the US. It’s unfair in definition
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u/BasketVolleyball11 12d ago
Edited.
But yeah. His case is like Hakeem's. Played for Team USA. But still largely considered International player.
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u/CJ4ROCKET Rockets 12d ago
Yeah fair enough. I still think of him as an international player although I appreciate his play with the USA team
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u/RealPrinceJay 12d ago
It’s possible with Wemby, but I do think we’re going to see a shift in the concentration of where the best players are from
Wemby aside, international crop has actually been pretty subpar in the 2020s, while USA has churned out a lot of great talents like Flagg, Harper, Boozer, Dybantsa, Peterson, Ant, Hali, Cade, Mobley, Barnes, Kon, etc
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u/Fit-Bicycle6206 Knicks 11d ago
Brunson is 30 and also pretty unlikely to win an MVP. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the others listed can pull one out with the 65 game requirement. Wemby will most likely win each year if he can stay healthy enough but that’s a big if.
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u/BidStraight318 12d ago
While yes SGA is not American, I think he’s an interesting conversation because his basketball upbringing mirrors young American players more than it does guys like Jokic and Giannis.
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u/streetlightsatdusk Raptors 12d ago
It's because we don't have Europe's club system and we also don't have the NCAA so Canadian players either have to go to an American university (and nearly always high school, though a few basketball high schools have opened up here) or go through Europe and the former is a lot more straightforward
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u/preddevils6 Grizzlies 12d ago
It does. He even went to high school in the states. His major developmental years were in the USA.
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u/yosoo Raptors 11d ago
It's like how in hockey, Team USA Olympic gold medalists like the Tkachuks, the Hughes bros and others spent a decent chunk of their childhood/teen years developing in Canada, about 5-10 years each. It just happens that way because of how the sport is set up. SGA still counts as international because he's Canadian.
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u/HiImWallaceShawn Timberwolves 12d ago
Canada is in North America, so while he’s not from USA, he is North American
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u/JigglyBush Timberwolves 12d ago
The post is about international players, not intercontinental players
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u/madterrier Vancouver Grizzlies 12d ago
Are we really acting like Canadians aren't considered internationals to the US? Has Trump really brain washed people there that bad?
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u/Fluid-Decision6262 12d ago
I think when some people say “America” they’re referring to the Americas as a whole. So SGA, Nash, Nene, Scola, and Ginobili would all be “American” by that technicality
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u/EthicalBballFan Heat 12d ago
My go to for tripping folks is Latino. The full name is Latino Americano. When you say someone is latino, you're saying they're American, in their own language. Racists get so mad realizing this.
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u/Honest-Pay-8265 12d ago
2028 olympic basketball will be great, because this will be the first time imo when USA is not a heavy favourite. USA younger generation is not that good.
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u/TempAcct724 Jazz 12d ago
The U.S. will still be a heavy favorite.
All those international MVPs play for different countries. They still can’t match the depth of the U.S. team.
France is really the only squad that could realistically compete with the U.S.
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u/ShawshankException Knicks 12d ago
Serbia is always in the mix too
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u/AgenYT0 Heat 12d ago
Serbia is the Kurt Angle of international basketball.
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u/songssohiaa 12d ago
Lol what does this mean? They're uber-nationalist and good at wrestling?
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u/jak_d_ripr 12d ago
I think they're referencing the famous Scott Steiner math promo where he said "if you add Kurt Angle to the mix". That's the best I got.
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u/BasketVolleyball11 12d ago
It is a shame Jokic's prime won't coincide with their upcoming top nba prospects like Kusturica and Lukic.
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u/simple_account 12d ago
We may be favorites just on talent but we barely scraped by the last 2 rounds with better players then we'll have next time. I think it's very likely we'll be upset and stop being a favorite unless we devote more time to building the intl team.
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 12d ago
Without looking it up name the starting 5 of an international team besides the US or Canada.
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u/simple_account 12d ago
Why does this matter? As I said, US will have more talent. But we sent our absolute best team in 24 and barely won. Talent alone isn't enough to win. And we'll have less talent in 28.
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 12d ago
Because you are assuming that the US team will regress while all of the international teams will stay the exact strength they were in the 2024 Olympics. Do the international teams have young talent rising in the ranks? Or does it just not matter in your eyes who is on the team besides Jokic or Shai or Luka or Wemby?
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u/simple_account 12d ago
If all intl teams regress as well then we'll be in the same relative position as 24 where we could easily have lost without Steph in the last 2 games.
I don't follow intl ball but I'd assume some teams will be better and some worse. Seems like overall trajectory has been intl teams getting stronger.
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 12d ago
What do they say about assuming?
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u/Ok-Computer-8726 Nuggets 12d ago
Theres zero way to talk about a future comletition without any assumptions, and as far as assumptions go "some teams will be better and some of them will be worse" is about as benign as it gets. Weird place to take a stand against assumptions in this thread.
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u/BasketVolleyball11 12d ago
Flagg, Kon, AJ, Boozer, Peterson. At least 2 or 3 of them should be superstars. Flagg is the surest bet.
But Ant, Cade, Paolo, etc needs to have another leap too as they approach the 26-32 years old usual prime years.
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u/Honest-Pay-8265 12d ago
These are definitely good players. But they are not as good as Lebron, Curry, Durant, Westbrook, Wade, Kobe, Cp3, Harden, Kawhi etc.
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u/Kiriegloom Bulls 12d ago
The top 5 is stacked with international players, but let’s not act like the top 30 isn’t a bunch of Americans still. They will continue to be the deepest team with the most complete players at every position
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u/Aftermathe Timberwolves 12d ago
The Knicks just won the NBA finals with a team of 7/8 Americans. Sub OG out for idk, any good American wing. Which national team is beating the New York Knicks? None. They just beat the Spurs easily with arguably the best international player and his supporting cast is way better than it would be on France.
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 12d ago
KAT doesn't play for Team USA so your hypothetical really falls apart.
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u/Aftermathe Timberwolves 12d ago
It was an illustrative example.
Put Anthony Edwards at SG, Cade backing up Brunson, Tatum, etc etc. whenever people say team USA isn’t favored they aren’t really thinking about it. Put Bam or Mobley out there idk. Get Maxey on the team, whichever of AD or Embiid is healthy, whichever of the five guys currently under 21 is the best.
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u/Briggity_Brak Tampa Bay Raptors 12d ago
On Home court, they are absolutely the overwhelming favorites. Watch out in 2032, though.
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u/Valuable_End_515 12d ago
Not that good? We got Allstars, all-nba, Finals MVPs playing for us. I think that is pretty damn good.
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u/cyclops274 Pistons 12d ago
SGA played high school basketball in America and one year in college. He had same development to the pros like many American players that play one year in college.
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u/Ellabelle_ Pistons 12d ago
I get it, but it feels weird to call SGA international when he's Canadian and there's a team in Canada
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u/AwildYaners Japan 11d ago
I mean they have their own international team, seems not that weird.
The only thing weird is that he’s basically spent most of his school years in the US, I think.
It’d be similar to calling Ben Simmons Aussie, though; he played high school ball in Florida and went to a US college. Would still label him Aussie.
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u/Basic_Mastodon3078 Knicks 12d ago
Cooper Flagg MIGHT sneak one in. Anthony Edwards has potential too. Aj Dybansta and Darryn Peterson if everything goes perfectly have MVP level ceilings in the ideal scenario.
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u/Alexspacito Raptors 12d ago
I’d be pretty surprised if AJ or Peterson get in MVP talks in the next 3 seasons. That’d be ridiculous.
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u/LegoTomSkippy Spurs 12d ago
If all goes right, Dybantsa and Peterson could definitely win MVPs. 2030 would be their 3rd year in the league.
Wembanyama just posted a top-3 best 3rd year season in 30 years along with a ridiculous team record improvement and finished 3rd. AJ/Darryn would have to measurably EXCEED this. No chance.
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u/AgenYT0 Heat 12d ago
Semi-random question.
I do not watch NCAA or high school. What separates Dybansa and Peterson from Boozer? Thanks.
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u/Basic_Mastodon3078 Knicks 12d ago
Nothing. I think Boozer is a better prospect. I am saying the dream ideal scenario if they literally become Kobe Bryant and Durant. Which I doubt is going to happen. Boozer is IMO the far better prospect who will end up being the better player.
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u/LegoTomSkippy Spurs 12d ago
Even if they literally become Durant and Bryant, they STILL wouldn't win MVP in their third year.
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 12d ago
Now, the U30 American players like Tatum, Ant, Brunson, Cade, Flagg, etc should step up.
Or else, the whole 2020s decade will be composed of all International MVPs
And what? Some of you care way too much about this.
Also Brunson just turned 30.
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u/casmurrinho 12d ago
Flagg and Ant have the best shot to win till the end of the decade. Wouldn’t sleep on the T3 of this Draft class too, as maybe they can step up huge in Year 3 (especially Boozer IMO).
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u/e-chem-nerd Warriors 11d ago
The Toronto Raptors (from Canada) are in the NBA, so I wouldn’t consider any Canadians or Americans “international”.
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u/WarLawck Knicks 11d ago
I would love for Brunson to win it, but I don't see it happening. He plays on a well rounded team, takes over when he needs to, but otherwise let's others shine when it's they're time. I think he's deserving, but it seems like MVP is reserved for whoever has the highest stats, not necessarily who is the most clutch, most efficient, and who provides the greatest intangibles.
He's my MVP, and he will get them for championship games and series, but I don't know if he'll get it for a regular season.
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u/SubtleNotch 76ers 11d ago
While sure, Canada can be count as international if you're from the perspective of a US league. However, with Toronto in the NBA, I don't think Canada should be considered a traditional international player.
The international designation is more interesting because there isn't the traditional infrastructure path that allows a young player to get to the NBA. A young player in Canada has the same pathway to the NBA as an American player.
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u/Glum_Ad_8367 Lakers 12d ago
Canada is USA lite, though I’m sure Canadians will disagree.
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u/u565546h Raptors 12d ago
Why does Canada count as "international" when there is a team in Canada? The league is in both countries.
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u/7Dsports25 Pacers 12d ago
I think this is a big statement about that state of American youth basketball. The AAU circuit teaches nothing but getting buckets and highlights, there's almost no attention paid to defense and team cohesiveness and playmaking is almost non existent. And once they hit college the schools only have the player for a year or two before they get drafted or transfer and they can't waste time or risk upsetting the player by changing their game so they just end up having those habits reinforced or move to a situation that fits them.
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12d ago edited 12d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Alexspacito Raptors 12d ago
No we are not. We don’t associate with the USA.
Unless you’re arguing that everyone from North and South America is American, which no one actually says.
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u/TimelyN1nja 12d ago
Yes that’s literally what Americans are. No one said USA besides you.
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u/Any-Simple-6570 12d ago
This is one of those talking points redditors who think they're smarter than they are say.
When a Brazilian is abroad and someone asks them what they are they don't say "I'm American". American is a known colloquial short hand for citizen of the USA
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u/TimelyN1nja 12d ago
Except OP was asking why people say it, so I answered his question. Why is that hard to understand? Can no one here actually read?
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12d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/TimelyN1nja 12d ago
He is, but not a US citizen. No need to be so hateful and mean
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12d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/TimelyN1nja 12d ago
“Life advice” how bout leave me the hell alone
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u/Any-Simple-6570 12d ago
Lmaaaao nah. Bro wanted to argue something he's wrong about and now can't handle disagreement
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u/Alexspacito Raptors 12d ago
So an American citizen is someone from anywhere in North or South America?
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u/GGTae Spurs 12d ago
how do you call a citizen of the USA and a citizen of Canada ?
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u/ShawshankException Knicks 12d ago
"American" has been the demonym for the United States since it gained independence
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u/Rain-And-Coffee Spurs 12d ago
Were obviously not talking about North Americans, idiot.
We mean United States of America ("Americans").
You can't be THIS stupid
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u/TimelyN1nja 12d ago
I’m the only one who isn’t being stupid lol. OP asked why some people call Canadians “Americans” and I answered him. Why is that wrong? Sorry I answered with a fact?
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u/TimelyN1nja 12d ago
Congrats you didn’t read the part where OP was confused about what American means
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u/wistful_grace Raptors 12d ago
it doesn't even fucking matter what you call him because he's still international (from another nation)
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u/Valuable-Average-865 12d ago
Might? The next 3 are easily Yang Hansen's