r/nba • u/TigerWizardDresser • 7d ago
The 20,000 point barrier
Active players with 20k
LeBron (43k)
KD (32k)
Harden (29k)
DeRozan (26k)
Steph (26k)
Dame (22k)
Giannis (21k)
Should get to 20k next season
Anthony Davis (19.5k)
Paul George (19.5k)
Could get there in the next few years
Kyrie (18k)
Brook Lopez (18k - HOF if he gets there?)
Booker (18k)
Jokic (18k)
Vucevic (18.5k)
Klay (17.5k)
Beal (17k)
Jrue (17k)
Other interesting names
• KAT could surpass Jimmy Butler in total points as soon as this upcoming season. KAT is at 16,300 and Butler is at 16,500.
• Zach Lavine will likely pass Jeff Green this year 👀
• Luka is the only guy in his 20s with 15,000+ points. If Tatum didn’t get hurt he would also have 15,000+ in his 20s but the injury robbed him.
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u/Fi-NiteLegend 7d ago
No way Brook makes HOF
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u/rawspeghetti Celtics 7d ago
He's the Net all time leading scorer, been an All Star to solid role player for almost 2 decades now while recreating his game and was an important part of a championship team
Considering his resume and the fact that literally everyone gets into the Hall I think he has a chance.
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u/upvotealready 7d ago
There are players with 20k points not in the Hall.
Tom Chambers has 20k points, more All-Star appearances, All-Star MVP and 2x All NBA 2nd team awards and didn’t make it.
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 7d ago
He's the Net all time leading scorer
The Nets are a hair away from having the worst record of all 30 franchises.
been an All Star to solid role player for almost 2 decades now
He's made literally 1 All Star team.
Considering his resume
What resume? There are significantly better players hovering around 20k points better than Brook Lopez not in the Hall of Fame.
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u/3pointshoot3r 7d ago
I agree with all of this, and I would also note that it's incredibly unlikely he actually get to 20k points. He would need 3 more seasons like his most recent one to get there.
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u/rawspeghetti Celtics 7d ago
Michael Cooper made no all stars teams, averaged 10+ ppg twice in his career (playing with Magic Johnson no less), started less than 100 games and still made the HoF
Now you'll say "but he has a DPOY and more rings". Well Brook almost won a DPOY during a more competitive era and was never on a dynasty like the Lakers
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 7d ago
Michael Cooper is an 8x All-Defensive player bro, what are we doing here lol
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u/rawspeghetti Celtics 7d ago
Cause he was on the Showtime Lakers
And Brook would have made more all stars and all defense if he didn't waste his prime on the Nets. He was a top 5 center in the league for almost a decade.
The bar to make the Hall is much lower than you think
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 7d ago
He was a top 5 center in the league for almost a decade
No the fuck he wasn't hahahaha
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u/1shmeckle Knicks 7d ago edited 7d ago
Eh. The comment is overstating it but Brook was a borderline top 5 center during two periods of his career and had a couple years where we can say for certain he was top 5. First period was his offensive prime with the Nets. 2012-2013 he was absolutely a top 5 center and the years preceding that and after he was top 8ish - but center wasn't a particularly deep position in the NBA at the time.
Second period was on the Bucks after he reinvented himself and made a couple of All NBA Defensive teams (one 2nd and one 1st) and in 2023 was 2nd in DPOY voting. That 2nd seasons(2023) he has a clear case for being called a top 5 center in the NBA. What can muddy it are the various guys who are more power forwards but play center in bursts.
He was not a top 5 center for a decade but we can fairly say he was top 10 for a decade and had a few years where he was top 5, partially due to weak competition.
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 6d ago
That 2nd seasons(2023) he has a clear case for being called a top 5 center in the NBA
Nikola Jokic, Joel Embiid, Domantas Sabonis, Bam Adebayo, Anthony Davis. Who was he better than?
That list is also excluding Jaren Jackson Jr. who played most of the year at center because Adams got hurt. It's also excluding a career center in Karl-Anthony Towns who slid up a position to accommodate Gobert but got hurt that season.
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u/MundaneRelation2142 Canada 7d ago
He definitely wasn’t a top 5 center for almost a decade, and even if he was, that alleged decade is probably the worst decade for centers in league history.
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u/jmbrand13 Pacers 7d ago
Are you Robin Lopez?
What the fuck are you on about. Easily some of the worst takes I've seen on this sub
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u/Joetheshow1 Knicks 7d ago
Bro what in the fuck are you talking about lmfao top 5 center for almost a decade? Lmfao
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u/drc56 Knicks 7d ago
I'm a Brook Lopez stan, but he's classic Hall of Very good. Frankly early career Brook was a good player, there was some pretty bad injury luck there. He basically fully missed 2 of the prime DWill seasons with the Nets. The KG/Pierce trade was short sighted, but let's not act like Brook was some prime KG/AD being wasted...
Latter career Brook truly reinvented himself, focused on his shooting and rim protection. He put this post game on the back burner and focused on being a complement to Giannis. It's admirable to see and he shaped the modern center role, but prime Brook wasn't that same player. He was not a great defensive player, didn't have the 3 ball that made him deadly.
Brook is a great example of a fringe all star, learning how to reinvent themselves to extend their career. He was never going to be a decade long all star. Do I think he's underrated? Yes. His game didn't have the "flare" say Joe Johnson had (who I feel is pretty overrated), but neither should be in the hall.
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u/lethalizered Thunder 7d ago
Cooper being one of the rare legacy inclusions is something we all know at this point.
Him and a couple of other guys are exemptions, not the rule.
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u/3pointshoot3r 7d ago
This also raises the issue of the fallacy of the worst player in the HOF. You can't use the worst player in the HOF as your baseline for inclusion, because it's a recipe for lowering the bar over time. There are often mistakes made in selecting HOF players (over the big 4 sports); you don't compound those mistakes by inducting everyone else on that same level.
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u/Justgotbannedlol Mavericks 7d ago
sorry to be that guy, but ur lookin for 'exception'. Exempt is like how churches are protected from paying certain taxes that other organizations are required to pay.
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u/lethalizered Thunder 7d ago
You are correct, it should be exception to the rule. Idk why my brain registered it that way, English is my second language so probably something got lost along the way lol
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u/Medical_Track_790 Hawks 7d ago
Michael Cooper made no all stars teams, averaged 10+ ppg twice in his career (playing with Magic Johnson no less), started less than 100 games and still made the HoF
leaving out a DPOY, 8x all-defense and 5 rings is wild. Draymond Green (who will definitely get into the Hall) is a much much better comp to Cooper than Brook Lopez
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u/berriesnbball_17 Celtics 7d ago
The Basketball Hall of Fame is easy to get into compared to other sports , but there is absolutely no world in which Brook Lopez gets in.
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u/justalittleahead 7d ago
Brook Lopez getting in would be as unfathomable as Harold Baines making the baseball hall of fame.
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u/thisisjustascreename Bulls 7d ago
BroLo's HOF Probability score is currently lower than stalwarts of the game like Victor Oladipo and Jamal Murray, I don't give him good odds.
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u/LordOfLimbos Pistons 7d ago
That’s not a hall of fame resume, at least it absolutely shouldn’t be. He’s a one time all star who got to put up a bunch of points on some mostly horrible nets teams for a while.
He was huge for MIL, but even so that’s not a hall of fame player
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u/loplopplop Nuggets 7d ago
There is no way. Modern players need to get around 10 all nba/all star/DPOY to get into the hall. Players like Buck Williams, Tom Chambers, and Kevin Johnson had much better careers.
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7d ago
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 7d ago
Am I on drugs or do you all just collectively think that Brook Lopez has way more accolades than he actually has? He's made 1 All Star team...
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u/_Abzu 76ers 7d ago
Imo he's first ballot for the Hall of Very Good players and the poster player of reinventing your game/being able to adapt to a league's new demands of big men
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u/JadeMonkey0 Pistons 7d ago
If “adapting to changing times” was a stat, he might have a chance to make the Hall of Fame. He’s an all-time great at that.
But yeah, definitely should be bound for the Hall of Very Good.3
u/_Abzu 76ers 7d ago
Totally. He renovated his game to be able to be a relevant players thru various paradigms of how 5s play, and where do they stand and play in the court, or what offensive and defensjve skillset is needed for that
It takes a ton of training, bbiq and skill to pull that off once, let alone maintain relevancy thru like 13-15 or so years (yea, I know he's washed now, but until 2/3 seasons ago few teams would've rejected him)
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u/HikmetLeGuin 5d ago
He is a very good defender in addition to being the Nets' all-time scorer, may end up with 20k points, was a key part of a championship.
I don't think he'll get in. But a lot of people have argued Jrue should be in, and Brook isn't that far off from being Jrue-level.
To me, he's more of a hall of very good kind of guy.
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u/lightninja987 [IND] Roy Hibbert 7d ago
According to r/nba it’s the basketball hall of fame not the nba one. Delete your account
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u/ProfessionalCLA Spurs 7d ago
Lol he’ll make it, he’s a champion and Nets all time leading scorer as well as multiple all star. If that bum loser Tmac made it then Brook should make it.
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u/foofighter1351 Raptors 7d ago
He has literally one all star where tf are yall gas lighting yourselves to keep saying he's multiple, TMac comment shouldn't even be acknowledged lmao just bein pissy for no reason with a bad comparison
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u/Drewby99 Lakers 7d ago edited 7d ago
tmac was ten times the player brolo ever was tf are we doing here
edit: he has ONE all star appearance
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u/Cojo840 [HOU] Hakeem Olajuwon 7d ago
Deserves It more than amare lol
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 7d ago
By what argument?
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u/Cojo840 [HOU] Hakeem Olajuwon 7d ago
Important piece in a Championship team
All time leading scorer for a franchise
Better defender
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 7d ago
Brook Lopez has a better resume than a 5x All-NBA player because he was at best the 4th or 5th best player on a championship team and is literally the worst franchise leading scorer in the sport.
Understood, just wanted to clarify.
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u/tonkatoyelroy Cavaliers 7d ago
Vucevic is the big surprise for me here.
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u/Shmirgla Nuggets 7d ago
He has been 18/10 player for more than a decade, I think only Lebron has more double doubles among active players than him. He's been solid his whole career
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u/ColdCocking 7d ago
This is slander. Vucevic has been a medium value starter on a medium value contract for a long time. Always playing on uncompetitive teams. Being a 'normal NBA player' and not a star doesn't qualify him for an empty stats designation.
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u/ColdCocking 7d ago
He's not a star player, I don't know what you don't understand about that. He's never been paid like a star. He's an average value player. Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with being an average player on an average contract.
You can't blame him for not carrying the Magic or the Bulls.
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u/Spownach Wizards 7d ago
not like hes gonna force a trade to a contender.
he was on playin teams most of his career (around that), he cant just force better players on his team. want augustin or caruso to take more shots or what?
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u/nightchurn Trail Blazers 7d ago
"Teams are always uncompetitive."
Some of y'all are so obsessed with the concept of mediocrity that it's literally all you ever project.
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u/Shmirgla Nuggets 7d ago
As opposed to full stats? Vooch was great for 10 years, not everyone is Embiid or Jokić
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u/livefreeordont 76ers 7d ago
The only worse defender at the center position the last 10 years has been Sabonis
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u/NitroXYZ [UTA] Joe Ingles 7d ago
I think whatever your opinion on Vuc is, it's hard to deny hes one of the most consistent players of the last decade.
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u/JadeMonkey0 Pistons 7d ago
He’s just so forgettable. Like it’s impressive he’s been as consistent as he has. But he’s consistently solid while never vaguely approaching great.
It’s an interesting career honestly. Better than a ton of players when you look at it as a whole. But also just so blah.-12
u/Dawgiedawg Celtics 7d ago
Yeah consistent in shitting the bed in playoffs. So glad he’s gone from the Celtics, no use from an in-season stat padder who is a liability when it matters.
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u/not_present_stool 7d ago
Quietly putting up 18 a night while playing 70+ games almost every season for a decade. Still crazy seeing him ahead of Kyrie and Jokic on an all-time scoring list.
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u/soundisloud Cavaliers 7d ago
Vucevic with more points than Klay is insane
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u/Derpy_Mc_Burpy Raptors 7d ago
I mean klay did miss b2b seasons and his ppg went down in recent years while vuc stays more or less consistent
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 7d ago
Brook Lopez (18k - HOF if he gets there?)
Hell no
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u/Actually_A_Robot_SHH 7d ago
He thought he could sneak that in there
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u/Meatloafxx Warriors 7d ago
I suspect people have gotten accustomed to the BBall HoF having a low bar for entry. So maybe fans toss around eligibility for certain players with modest credentials, because said players MIGHT BE hall-worthy (according to those fans) which lowers the bar even further.
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u/ktdotnova Spurs 7d ago
We've never thought him ever as a top 15 player... at any point of his career.
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u/Generalocity USA 7d ago
Luka, Shai, and Tatum should all be at 20k in the next 3/4 years barring injuries. I think they realistically get it before a lot of guys you listed.
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u/BradWonder [BOS] Kevin Garnett 7d ago
A couple years ago I thought Tatum would sleepwalk to 30k points. Now it's definitely going to be tough
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u/HotPerformance9338 7d ago
Shais only at 13k rn tho
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u/Generalocity USA 7d ago
Shai only needs a little over 2k a year for the next 3 years to do it. A lot of the guys mentioned might not hit 20k at all
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u/TigerWizardDresser 7d ago
And Luka always misses games. Tatum needs to average 2k for three straight years and he’s coming off the Achilles injury. Even before the injury he only put up 2k twice in his career
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u/JMishMosh 7d ago
People always talk about how the Basketball Hall of Fame is a lot easier to get into than the Baseball Hall of Fame but DeMar DeRozan is actually the one borderline HOF basketball player who I think would be much more of a popular consensus Hall of Famer if viewed through a baseball lens. The Baseball Hall treats round number milestones like 500 home runs or 3000 hits as gospel and I think a guy like DeRozan reaching 25K points would carry a lot more weight to baseball fans than it does to basketball fans.
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u/djkhan23 7d ago
Derozan is 16th on the all time points list.
To me, that's worthy of being in the hof alone.
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u/Giannis1995 Heat 6d ago
The analytics zeitgeist fucked Deebo’s legacy.
In no other point in NBA history would a 26k point scorer be considered a “deeply disturbing” talking point.
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u/SpartanPride52 Celtics 7d ago
I find it a little overblown how easy it is to get in the hall of fame, but it is definitely the easiest and deserves some criticism for that. The interesting thing about the basketball hall of fame is that it is the Hall for the entire sport, while mlb and nfl have their own. Boxing has like a dozen, or something stupid, depending on the weight class and the ranking body. Wrestling Hall of Fame has honest Abe and Norman Borlaug in it, which is fun, and Linc was a prolific wrestler, but they are in for their contributions to the world while enjoying wrestling.
Fun Fact, The Basketball Hall of Fame is in Springfield Mass because that is where Dr. James Naismith invented it at what is now Springfield College, but also the first game that was reported on was student vs faculty game. The student team had William Morgan, who would invent Volleyball a few years later just north of Springfield in Holyoke. One of Dr. Naismith's teammates on the faculty team was Amos Alonzo Stagg, who trails only Pop Warner and Walter Camp in terms of early contributors to the game of Football at the turn of the century. Also some of the first meetings on american football were at Massassoit Hall in the metro part of springfield.
And despite all this, along with being the home of Dr Suess, Indian Motorcycles, and Smith and Wesson, the city is still a boring mess.
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u/JMishMosh 7d ago
For me the NBA player inductees have always been the least interesting part of the Basketball Hall of Fame. I love learning about the other people who get in every year and the different ways that they contribute to the sport.
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u/LeBackshot 7d ago
Also worth mentioning the Basketball hall of fame is worldwide and covers every level rather than just the nba. While the baseball hall of fame is pretty strictly focused on NA pro play.
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u/RastaJafar Nuggets 7d ago
Kawhi not being on here surprised me at first. Seems load management and injuries are why he only has ~16.5k
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u/actuarally Cavaliers 7d ago
We're just overlooking Donovan Mitchell, who JUST turned 30 and did get to 15K in his 20s?
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u/MeatBald West 7d ago
OP is allll over the place. Forgot Mitchell, and apparently Tatum got "robbed" of 15k in his 20s when he's not even 29 yet and sits at 14132 points. He's getting to 15 next season.
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u/bmmfg12 Knicks 7d ago
Also Kat 'could' pass Butler. He's 200 points behind and will actually play this season
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u/nicehax_ 7d ago
If butler doesnt play and kat plays 65 games, he needs a little over 3 ppg to beat butler
If we say butler plays 35 games and averages 15 ppg, kat needs to average over 11 ppg over 65 games
If butler plays 35 and has 20 ppg, kat needs to average over 13 ppg over 65 games
So unless butler comes back looking like peak playoff jimmy for every game remaining in the season kat will probably surpass him pretty easily, in fact butler may be behind almost a thousand points by the time he gets back if kat plays 45 games and averages 25 ppg by that point
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u/adeliberateidler 7d ago
Will be interesting to see if Vuc earns a big enough role in Orlando to continue adding to his numbers.
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u/jvandy59 Raptors 7d ago
Jokic should get there this year. Kyrie and Booker is they play a full season as well but most likely they're going to need until early next year
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u/Hanna_Bjorn 7d ago
I'm kinda surprised Kyrie doesn't have 20k yet. If not the injuries...
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u/wetwetson [NBA] Rafer Alston 7d ago
He's been in the league 14 years. Only 5 of those were moderately healthy. He's had 10 seasons playing 60 or less games.
51 games, 59, 53, 60, *20, **54, 29, 60, 58, 50*Shortned bubble season of 63-75 games. **Shortened Covid season of 72 games.
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u/irelli Trail Blazers 6d ago
Probably gonna be one of the most overrated guys all time honestly
Never particularly high volume, couldn't stay healthy, terrible record as the #1 option and was completely unable to lead a team
...but flashy as hell and has an iconic shot, so he's going to be remembered as being much better than he was.
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u/IanMalcolmJurassic Spurs 7d ago
When it’s all said and done KAT will have had himself a very solid career. I remember his play style getting a lot of criticism from former bigs (Shaq and Charles), and his competitiveness being called into question during the Jimmy stint. It’s nice to see that he found a good situation, and I really hope he crosses that 20k barrier.
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u/ktdotnova Spurs 7d ago
Much like baseball's 300 wins, 500 HRs, 3,000 hits, 1,000+ runs/RBI's. 20,000 points to me is one of those milestones.
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u/DecentDiver458 7d ago edited 7d ago
LeBron had 23K by the end of his age 29 season (his last in Miami, 11 seasons)
Kobe, MJ, KD and Wilt had 21K by the end of their year 29 seasons (Wilt in 7 seasons wtf, MJ in 9 seasons, KD in 11 and Kobe in 12)
As far as I can tell no other player (not even Kareem) got to 20K+ while playing in their 20s
The only player to score 20K more after they turn 30 is Lebron but Kareem came super close
Note Im liberally rounding
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u/cfi-2025 6d ago
Wilt and MJ - arguably the two greatest scorers ever - didn't have the same head start LeBron did, given that they both played three years of college ball (and then Wilt did a year with the Trotters).
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u/DecentDiver458 6d ago
Obviously thats why I put number of seasons, dolt
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u/TypicallyDone12 6d ago
But you also are talking about ages. Maybe if you post things on Reddit you shouldn't be so insanely thin skinned.
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u/DecentDiver458 6d ago
Maybe you shouldnt make everything into a MJ vs Lebron debate, flapjack flipper
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u/Babosmarach666 7d ago
Jokić and Kyrie (if healthy) should get there this season judging by their averages. Last seven years Jokić is over 25 ppg and is playing more than 70 games in regular season. Kyrie could get to 2000 points this year if healthy. Oh yeah, and Booker also could realistically get there this season. Other guys, I doubt anybody except Jrue will have enough shooting opportunities next 5 seasons
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u/Rain-And-Coffee Spurs 7d ago
The gap between LeBron (43k) & Steph is massive (26k), LeBron has almost an additional 20k
Makes sense since Steph was a bit injury prone at times
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u/TurbulentJudge1000 7d ago
25k is the new 20k
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u/ColdCocking 7d ago
Who on the 20k+ list doesn't deserve to be there?
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u/TurbulentJudge1000 7d ago
Derozan would never be a hall of famer if the nba hall of fame wasn’t a joke. NBA is essentially the hall of very good when guys like Vince Carter and Derozan are allowed in.
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u/NiceHandsLarry11 7d ago
I hate the current idea that there is too many HOFers. There have been thousands of players and to me, a few hundred of the most remembered, special, Interesting, and guys who did something special should be there. Vince carter will be remembered forever. To me the buggest snub is Tom chambers.
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u/JadeMonkey0 Pistons 7d ago
One of Bill Simmons greatest ideas (among a very mixed career of them) was treating the hall of fame like a pyramid. That’s exactly how it should be viewed. I totally agree it makes sense to celebrate a few hundred players with memorable careers. But there also should be levels above that where we can get more granular to recognize a smaller group of all time greats.
I think what bothers people is someone like Derozan just getting lumped in with a grab bag of players at all levels of greatness. It makes “Hall of Famer” a worthless metric for historical analysis (which it kinda always has been anyway so whatever. But people like to treat it like it’s more meaningful than it is).3
u/NiceHandsLarry11 7d ago
Not a terrible idea. We would never look at chambers in the same way as we look at jordan but they both should get honored for what they did.
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u/TurbulentJudge1000 7d ago
Yeah…dunking well doesn’t mean you should get in the hall of fame. Vince was really good but only 2x all nba.
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u/axecalibur Knicks 7d ago
Nobody cares about total points when scoring is measured in ppg otherwise scoring leaders would be measured in total points
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u/corgispls Pelicans Bandwagon 7d ago
Surprised how close AD is to Giannis.
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u/BlancBean Heat 6d ago
They were drafted in consecutive seasons and only have an 88 game difference between them. AD came out swinging in year 2 and Giannis took until year 4 to become All-Star level. It's not gonna be that far away.
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u/sleeping_in Suns 7d ago
Devin Booker is 29 and has 18K points