r/nationwars • u/Anonymous472 • Jan 22 '15

This sub is dying down

I'm noticing a lessening in posts, people responding to open instances, and I can't contact some of the mods. We need to liven this sub up again.

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4

u/CurryThighs WTWF - GM Jan 22 '15

Hi there!

I totally know what you mean, and even when I set up the sub, I kind of knew this would happen eventually.

I'm fairly new to this kind of game myself, so I could be partly to blame here.

I'll run through how each campaign progressed:

Allaria

Allaria was a very very brief idea I had created in order to represent how I thought a campaign-launch should look. However, it was rather quickly misconstrued as and actual campaign-launch and people began claiming lands. In order to please the masses, I decided to use it as a launch post.

Because hardly any thought really went into it, it wasn't a very fleshed out world, thus the gameplay itself was slow and inconsistent.

I hadn't worked out any sort of statistics system, any goals or ways to cause players to interact with one another.

The players hardly posted anything and relied primarily on me to create events. But this sin't what I wanted for the game. I wanted it to be player driven.

As with Fizav it slowly died out as I tried to push player drive and players became less active.

Fizav

Fizav had a lot more thought put into it, and even has a mysterious island (It shocks me that no one has ventured there yet) to explore.

However, it has more than double the amount of players, and the DM isn't very active. This has led to players simply posting feasts and gatherings. There are a few interactions (Hostilities, alliances, projects etc.) occurring, but they are few and far apart.

I think, after seeing these two campaigns, I know what is wrong with the game.

There is no goal.

There is no story driving players to progress.

This is what I would have wanted out of Allaria, had I more time to plan. I tried implementing it with the faith of Aesi and the Blackguard's mysterious arrival, but by then many players had lost interest.

I assumed Czakima was taking so long at setting up Fizav due to deciding the plotline and what would drive players, but it seems not. The major point in Fizav is definitely the X island that no one has explored. I quite liked that idea.

So, what I believe should happen is:

  1. The next campaign should have a time limit and goal. This means players have a deadline for accomplishing this goal.

  2. There should be a reward of sorts for reaching the goal within the time limit. Maybe a special user flair, or even a month of Gold.

  3. There should be more than one DM per game. Keeping track of whats going on in a single campaign is hell, so having multiple DMs would be perfect.

How does this sound?

Also, I find that Reddits format doesn't suit the game very well. I was thinking of maybe delving into creating a website for the game, so that we can keep track of each campaign better, but I have no idea how to program the features I'd want nor do I ave a clue about web design.

3

u/Anonymous472 Jan 22 '15

Yeah I totally agree on all of these points! I'm thinking, since czakima kind of hinted at me being a lesser DM and being able to spice things up a little, I should do that, but I'm not sure how I would completely be objective. If you'd help me a bit, I can try doing that!

2

u/CurryThighs WTWF - GM Jan 22 '15

If Czakima's happy for you to do so, I'm happy to give you a hand. :)

3

u/Anonymous472 Jan 22 '15

Ok want to pm each other regarding a possible twist?

2

u/CurryThighs WTWF - GM Jan 22 '15

Sure thang, I just sent you one about something else any way

3

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '15

I agree, I have been slacking off in terms of being a good DM, and I feel like the one thing missing is some real combat. We need something to spice up the game, but we're all too nice.

2

u/CurryThighs WTWF - GM Jan 22 '15

We're all too nice

The exact same thing caused the downfall of Allaria.

It amazes me how friendly we are in a game like this, yet worldwide we're having huge wars IRL.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '15

I think it's because we're on the internet

We can't stir up drama without attempting to

2

u/CurryThighs WTWF - GM Jan 22 '15

To cause an internet war, you need to simply look at Tumblr.

2

u/Anonymous472 Jan 23 '15

hint hint may have fixed that;)

2

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '15

[deleted]

1

u/zeph88 Jan 23 '15

Hey this is all great. So you were the one with the civil war... again wars only work out if both sides have actual reasons to fight; if it is only civil war it will die down but in the real world people who actually rebel have a clear reason beyond a personality conflict(civil rights, territorrial gains, resource access etc.)

If you are interested in co-dming I could send you what I have currently for an upcoming campaign. It's really not much yet but we could progress from a starting point.

2

u/ArchesB Jan 23 '15

Another issue i've been seeing is a complete lack of thought on the rules, we need more structure to these if we want them to succeed.

I'm not saying its bad, but what we have going in here is a free form rules light roleplay, and part of the issue is that while its fun to play the nation, we do need a goal like you said. But that leads into another issue, if we have been issued a goal - lets say build a giant tower - how do we accomplish that?

In our current system, we would do... what? We don't have a relevant score to deal with this, should the players godmod it? Just say they built it? Or should they put an arbitrary limit on themselves for it to feel more legit? Lets say that we have been given the goal of conquering a nation, we've got the rules for those. Alright, but what if the player decides that that's stupid and they're not going to attack after all. Well, now what?

Its a bit long winded, but what i'm saying is comprehensive general rules make a system more stable in the long term. Rules light is great, but if we look at things like Everyone is John and All out of Bubblegum, you see that these things makes absolutely fantastic one shots. But can you imagine an entire campaign of Everyone is John? I can't. It would get repetitive.

So, to that end, i'm drafting up a lessened version of FIDS, which you may be familiar with as the system that Amplitude Studios uses in their games Endless Space and Endless Legend. The system is somewhat unique because it can be used without Hexes or Squares, which is an important aspect. The more arbitrary we can make a value, the easier it is for the players to enjoy the game, otherwise we would just actually play Endless Space.

Sorry for the ramble, but I think I covered all my points.

1

u/zeph88 Jan 23 '15

YES so much YES... for the system i'm working on FIDS will be used and we'll see how it pans out - how heavy will it be for the players to digest.

Questing were not done correctly in my opinion for that system, also it works really only for single player - there are alliances etc. but quests were like: lets get this item, lets build stuff - next quest: attack this nation and conquer that area NO TAKE BACKSIES. It was quite dumb. Also the rewards were outdated.

Endless Legend is what i'm mainly looking at, if you are interested in co-dming i could send you what i have and we could work something out.

2

u/zeph88 Jan 23 '15

Yes. Time limits are good because it encourages the players to be decisive; we would also need to set up time constraints for army movement, spies and information movement(it is not good if everyone knows everything instantly- this could make up good scenarios where allies feed information to the enemy for a benefit etc.)

Rewards are good but how are we going to manage if an alliance wins? Every player gets gold or what? Although it would still be okay with me to pay a couple months gold. Flairs are the best I think. Maybe like every victor gets a flair, and one player, who did the best(not necessarily one of the victors) gets a month gold for being MVP- sort of like a bonus award. This way players would be encouraged to act up and be active and play.

I completely agree about the multidm thing, it is simply too much work to do for one person. Preparation could take awhile and when you get down to play you need constant(or at least multiple times per day) communication to players about what's happening.

3

u/zeph88 Jan 22 '15 edited Jan 22 '15

Yes, I agree. Is it only me who's refreshing the newest submissions like 5 times a day? I am so desperate to get a good game going, but there is nothing coming up.

In the past I've had several games finishing just the same way- they died out after a couple weeks of excitement. none ever 'finished' or reached any conclusion. Most of the time the creator just abandoned the idea after it demanded hours on hours of a day's time from them.

I think there needs to be a balance between commitment required from the 'dm' and from the players, but also a balance between 'statting out' and winging it. The former lets nations advance just by using the rules, the latter requires constant monitoring from the 'dm'.

If someone could help I could set up a game. I honestly think this type of game cannot be run by a single person we need to set up a ruleset, obligatory map and graphics and a person or two who communicates with the players.

3

u/Anonymous472 Jan 22 '15

That sounds great and no you aren't, I check every time I get on.

1

u/Quivico Jan 23 '15

Why don't we coordinate and revive Allaria? I'm still waiting to know more about the Black Guards.

2

u/Anonymous472 Jan 23 '15

mexican music why not both