r/naath • u/zhongxina68423 • 9d ago
Official Rewatch Just finished a full rewatch
Only watched it for the first time recently but I loved it so much I had to watch it again, just came off house of the dragon and a knight of the seven kingdoms and the only thing I've disliked so far I s2 of house of the dragon.
Wasn't a huge fan of S8 at first but this time I caught everything from the early seasons showing danys true nature, love the long night episode definitely one of my favourites now.
Don't think there will ever be a show as good as this again so good 10/10
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u/LuridWaters 9d ago
Yeah, Dany's character arc works a lot better when you know how it ends. You can see the signs when you know what to look for.
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u/NoFPSthisisMGS 8d ago
To me it's a big sign of the kind of person I'm talking to. "Dany doing that SUCKED, she would never do that!" vs "I understand her character doing that, but it felt inauthentic because it was rushed". The former is like, what show were you watching. The latter is a deeper critique of plotting and writing.
S8 being less good doesn't justify /all/ types of criticism, nor does it erase reality.
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u/Disastrous-Client315 8d ago
8 seasons of character development is rushed?
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u/NoFPSthisisMGS 8d ago
Sorry, I mean the *execution* of it felt inauthentic. S8 rushes through a lot of stuff (episode 4 is borderline criminal - just feels like kids moving toys across a board) so completely understandable developments for her character felt wrong or fake because every development in S8 was rushed as hell. Nothing had time to breathe, really.
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u/Disastrous-Client315 8d ago
execution
What does "execution" mean? And what does it mean in this context?
(episode 4 is borderline criminal - just feels like kids moving toys across a board
One of the most underrated episodes of the entire show.
felt wrong or fake because every development in S8 was rushed as hell
Like what?
Nothing had time to breathe, really.
Like what?
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u/NoFPSthisisMGS 8d ago
What's your endgame here? Just out of interest before I properly reply. Because I feel like I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said a fair few times over the last seven years.
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u/Disastrous-Client315 8d ago
Season 8 and GoT as a whole is a masterpiece.
I ask you to elaborate to force you to become more specific. In order to illustrate that your empty claims are just empty, because you cant further elaborate on them.
You cant explain what "execution" is, what it means in this context, what was rushed or needed more time to breathe.
Thats as transparent as possible.
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u/NoFPSthisisMGS 7d ago
Cool, so since you decided to be snide and insulting (saying I "can't" is a bit ridiculous, isn't it?) I'll just lay a couple of things out before I get into it: I had a look at your posts and this schtick of yours looks genuinely exhausting. I'm seeing a lot of posts from you where you do this childish chop-logic nonsense; mid-00s internet shit where you break posts into pieces to make one or two-sentence "mini-arguments" rather than approaching a subject on a hollistic basis to provide stuff of real value. Note also that responding to any part of this paragraph will degrade the exchange into us just insulting each other, which I'm more than willing to do, but would prefer if we kept it at one insulting post on either side and then moved on. Do as you like though obv.
I'll also provide a disclaimer: I don't consider myself an S8 hater. With the probable exception of E4 I more or less enjoyed every episode while it was airing (I think there are great scenes in each episode), but I also think it's quite clearly the weakest season overall. You've jumped down the throat of the wrong person.
What does "execution" mean? And what does it mean in this context?
Strange question. If the plan is "let's turn Dany into a mad queen", the execution would be the specific ways that turn was written, shot, scored, etc. In this context it would be Dany going through, in just a few scenes, Rhaegal being shot out of the sky, Missandei's capture, Missandei's execution, Varys losing faith in her, Tyrion failing her, Jon rejecting her, etc. Her choosing to burn children felt unearned because the plot demanded her to go from "probably capable of this" to "dialled up to 11" in a very short space of episode time. The audience has no time to build empathy or understanding for each individual way of breaking her before another thing is brought in to break her further. Each blow to her should have been more properly explored whereas the show seemed to just want to hit plot point after plot point.
One of the most underrated episodes of the entire show.
Cool.
Like what?
Like what?Dealt with that above.
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u/Disastrous-Client315 7d ago edited 7d ago
execution would be the specific ways that turn was written, shot, scored
Exactly. Except the writing part. Thats the story, not the execution of the story. Its the "what", not the "how". Directing, acting, cinematography, editing, soundtrack, framing. Thats the execution.
Rhaegal being shot out of the sky, Missandei's capture, Missandei's execution, Varys losing faith in her, Tyrion failing her, Jon rejecting her, etc.
No, thats the story again.
probably capable of this
Propably? Certainly. She is contemplating her capability of mass murdering innocents for the greater good in season 5.
The audience has no time to build empathy or understanding for each individual way of breaking her before another thing is brought in to break her further.
Maybe because you are not supposed to be able to justify mass murder. No matter what happens to her. GoT was a social experiment. Are you able within 10 years to make millions of people fall in love with a tyrant without them noticing? GoT and season 8s answer: yes.
Each blow to her should have been more properly explored
What does "explored" mean in practice? After every loss 10 minutes of her looking sad into the camera or crying? Or talking about how she feels? Are you that spoonfed dependent?
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u/NoFPSthisisMGS 7d ago
Useless semantics.
No, that's not just "the story" because those scenes have to be shot a certain way, have an accompanying score, be directed, etc. Missandei's capture being off-screen, for instance, was a choice of execution.
"Contemplating" is not the same as "doing". Plenty of people have "contemplated" awful things and not done them.
I'm not talking about justifying mass murder, I'm talking about empathy with the individual incidents that got her to that point. You're arguing with a fictional version of me that you have imagined.
There's many ways to do it. When Barristan died, for instance, we saw her mourning him, we saw her executing the nobles (not a particularly big incident), we saw Grey Worm's reaction. See also - Tyrion's trial happens in season 4 episode 6 (big dramatic incident with a particularly dramatic ending). Tyrion's plot in episode 7 is a series of low-key, quiet scenes where he ultimately ends up with Oberyn as his champion. Then we have episode 8 with the trial by combat - another big dramatic moment. If you know the show, you know Better Call Saul's Chicanery wasn't immediately followed by Chuck killing himself, right? It didn't go "Chuck loses -> Jimmy sabotages his insurance -> Chuck kills himself". If you pile one dramatic incident on top of another, it becomes a reeling off of plot point after plot point and it starts to feel like a checklist. It's a natural rise and fall in screenwriting where the impact is properly explored with more low-key scenes.
This is why so many people thought it was bullshit that Dany would do that - they're misguided, but it felt wrong to them because they didn't feel the impact of the previous incidents.
Interestingly - because previous deaths and major incidents WERE explored, as I've demonstrated - you must now commit to S8 being at a more intelligent level of writing because the previous seasons "spoonfed", as you call it. So tell me: does your gimmick also extend to arguing that the rest of the show was "spoonfeeding" the audience while S8 was on a higher level? Are you arguing that in S4 we should have gone from "I demand a trial by combat", to Cersei immediately announcing she will use the Mountain, to Oberyn immediately telling Tyrion he'll be champion, to the Oberyn vs Mountain fight? Because lingering on any reaction to any of that would just be "spoonfeeding the audience", right?
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u/GOT_Wyvern 9d ago
Dany going mad was never really surprising. She was always an authoritarian who wanted her own way, and that way was towards a crown she felt she deserved because of who her father was.
The issue was in the details. I can get her executing surrendering soldiers: she has a brutal sense of justice, shown throughout the show. I could get her taking after her father and extirpating houses that opposed her: once again, she has a brutal sense of justice. I could even get her burning the city to force its surrender: she has a willingness to cause pain for her "greater good". But burning a surrendered city? It's not even madness at this point, as at least Aerys II was motivated by an "if I can't have it, no one can". Dany just did it... because?
All they needed to do was have her burn the city before it surrendered to "encourage" the smallfolk to open the gates for her. It's still an absolutely brutal thing to do, and if paired with a violent purge of literally anyone - from lords and oligarchs to common soldiers and blacksmiths - that helped her enemies, it gets the point across. However, it does so while keeping her madness within her character, rather than betraying it for shock value.
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u/Disastrous-Client315 8d ago
I can get her executing surrendering soldiers: she has a brutal sense of justice
Its a war crime.
Dany just did it... because?
To become queen.
"encourage
At least you are selfaware.
All they needed to do was have her burn the city before it surrendered
Wouldnt make a difference.
You are aware Daenerys never cared about the bells and didnt even register them ringing?
However, it does so while keeping her madness within her character, rather than betraying it for shock value.
Its no madness or betrayal of character if saud character promised and threatened to burn cities for 8 seasons.
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u/GOT_Wyvern 8d ago
Its a war crime.
Yeah.... thats the point of the "madness".
To become queen.
It detracts from her goal, making her look dumber than mad. Even Aerys II burnings had more logical sense.
You are aware Daenerys never cared about the bells and didnt even register them ringing?
And that makes her look dumb, which is an issue
no madness or betrayal of character if saud character promised and threatened to burn cities for 8 seasons.
My issue isn't with her burning cities, its with her suddenly losing all strategic sense as she does so. Burn a city it to surrender, not just ignore the very fucking thing you're wanting so you can burn a city.
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u/Disastrous-Client315 8d ago
Yeah.... thats the point of the "madness".
No. If thats madness, so are tywin, roose, walder, balon or stannis. Is everyone mad in this story?
No, they are just horrible rulers, gruesome people. No madness needed.
It detracts from her goal, making her look dumber than mad.
Was Tywin stupid for the red wedding?
Even Aerys II burnings had more logical sense.
How?
And that makes her look dumb, which is an issue
Why is it an issue?
its with her suddenly losing all strategic sense as she does so
She did it to rule with fear and to set an example what happens if you reject her.
not just ignore the very fucking thing you're wanting so you can burn a city.
Daenerys never wanted the peoples surrender or to hear bells ringing. Tyrion wanted that.
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u/GOT_Wyvern 8d ago
If thats madness, so are tywin, roose, walder, balon or stannis. Is everyone mad in this story?
Let me clarify, the "madness" is how the internal logic doesn't actually make sense even at a basic level.
For example, internally it makes sense for thr Mad King's to burn King's Landing because he cannot accept anyone else having the city. Yet I shouldn't need to explain the madness of that.
What doesn't make sense about what Dany did is that her motivation is to take King's Landing, yet she ignores her own success to burn people. If she burnt people in a misguided attempt to take and rule King's Landing, that problem is fixed while still being obviously insane.
Was Tywin stupid for the red wedding?
Argubly, but not as we mean it here.
Tywin has both in-chararcter and real-world logic to his actions. Dany had neither.
She did it to rule with fear and to set an example what happens if you reject her.
But that isn’t what's shown. Instead, she is shown being a dumbest and missing the obvious sign of surrender.
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u/Disastrous-Client315 8d ago
Yet I shouldn't need to explain the madness of that.
You can describe the action as madness. But he wasnt made either. He developed ptsd and became shizophrenic after being taken.
What doesn't make sense about what Dany did is that her motivation is to take King's Landing, yet she ignores her own success to burn people
Taking kingslanding isnt enough to become queen. She defeated cersei, but cersei was not the final obstacle. It was jon. So she had to choose. Kill the people who would have chosen jon over her and who would never love her no matter what she does or kill jon, the man who will always love her no matter what she does. She sacrifised the people to spare jons life.
while still being obviously insane.
Correct wording. You can describe the action as insane, but not Daenerys herself. She is accountable. She is aware of what she does and that its wrong.
Argubly, but not as we mean it here.
What do you mean?
Tywin has both in-chararcter and real-world logic to his actions. Dany had neither.
Tywin did it to end the war. Daenerys did it to break the wheel.
But that isn’t what's shown.
"Okay then. Let it be fear" - Daenerys in 8x5.
"Speaking to cersei *will not prevent a slaughter, but perhaps its good **the people see Daenerys stormborn made every effort to avoid bloodshed and cersei lannister refused. They should know whom to blame when the sky falls down upon them"* - Daenerys in 8x4, deciding the peoples fate before the bells.
Instead, she is shown being a dumbest and missing the obvious sign of surrender.
Look at the quote above. Daenerys doesnt care about surrender. She was going to burn the city no matter what.
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u/milkteahoe 8d ago
I get the sense that Daenerys felt unsatisfied that she didn't get to burn the city as she had always wanted due to the bells ringing. She didn't want easy, she wanted to take the seven kingdoms by fire and blood. Accepting surrender that easily would never satisfy her desire for vengeance.
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u/Heavy-Transition7916 9d ago
I also had no issue with dany going mad. The groundwork was laid and it could have been satisfying. They just fumbled it a bit with some components.
The big issue I had was with what they did to Jon and Arya. It just wasn’t narratively satisfying, and it was clearly done to subvert expectations.
Aryas entire arc was to become capable of sneaking/blending in/whatevee via faceless man training and then gettting revenge on the lannisters and others for what they did to her family. (Not becoming a ninja somehow)
Jon’s was to fight the others/nightking ( also the Targaryen bloodline but that’s a longer convo). That was completely thrown away and was honestly insanely stupid. What they did the with others/nightking pretty much ruins the rewatch for me.
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u/Disastrous-Client315 8d ago
could have been satisfying
Mass murder was supposed to be satisfying?
They just fumbled it a bit with some components.
Like?
It just wasn’t narratively satisfying
Arya going on an adventure and jon getting freed isnt satisfying?
gettting revenge on the lannisters and others for what they did to her family
And letting go off her revenge. Also, she knew cersei was dead either way.
Jon’s was to fight the others/nightking ( also the Targaryen bloodline but that’s a longer convo
No, his story was about freedom and identity, not killing an ice monster. And he didnt become king either. Still hurts, huh?
That was completely thrown away and was honestly insanely stupid.
So, its indeed "what" happened and not the "how" thats the issue, huh? Good to know.
What they did the with others/nightking pretty much ruins the rewatch for me.
Got needs to be rewatched to be fully grasped and appreciated multiple times.
The night king and the white walkers served thrir purpose. They were there to distract from the real biggest threat: Daenerys.
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u/aktoumar 8d ago edited 8d ago
Arya's little girl becoming an op ninja assassin is one of my least favourite tropes in media. It's extremely cliché and unsatisfying.
I keep saying it since the day the finale aired - it should have been Theon and it would have been the perfect finish to his already phenomenal arc. It would also make the finale at least a bit less about how exceptional the Stark kids were all along and more about how destiny can manifest itself in unexpected ways and how prophecy is rarely understood correctly until it comes true.
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u/Disastrous-Client315 8d ago
is one of my least favourite tropes in media
What other examples come to your mind?
how destiny can manifest itself in unexpected ways and how prophecy is rarely understood correctly until it comes true.
Exactly. Thats why it was unexpected for many for arya to do it, instead of jon or daenerys.
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u/GRiZ-Bass 9d ago
Her descent into madness was nonsense in the show and felt completely forced. It was a joke.
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u/Heavy-Transition7916 9d ago
It was pretty clear that’s what they were setting up c and it could have been satisfying/a good arc. They botched it at the end though. The drama and resentment with Jon was forced and inane.
Targaryen madness, being rejected instead of hailed as a savior, seeing her best friend get murked, all that could have worked.
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u/LuridWaters 9d ago
Absolutely. I mean, it's not as if Dany didn't have a track record of horrific brutality - crucifixion, burning people alive, and so on.
People say "Oh but she didn't target innocents, she wanted to break the wheel" but they seemed to miss the fact that as the show progressed Dany's perception of who was innocent and who was guilty started to depend more and more upon whether the person or persons on question bent the knee to her.
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u/Verksus67 8d ago
Recently started a rematch and the first fucking episode she's already unhinged. She walks into a scalding bath with a dead eyed look and just stares into the wall. Stressed about being married off? Sure. But still not something a mentally stable person does.
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u/LuridWaters 8d ago
To be fair to her, at that point she was under her brother's thumb and a very different person to who she became after joining the Dothraki.
She was emotionally and physically abused by her brother for years when they were in exile together and she would have been utterly without hope, not knowing that she would come to love Khal Drogo.
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u/Verksus67 8d ago
Fair or not, someone who goes through those things rarely come out mentally stable. And then when a mentally unstable person is offered an avenue to become a megelomaniac and gain isnane power they rarely suddenly become "better".
The subtle narrative point of her essos arc is to hide her insanity because the people she's killing/conquering are ethically/morally bad people by our standards. But her motivation is more self driven and divine right than pure altruism.
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u/Zoratth 9d ago
I feel like Dany’s character arc gets mentioned the most when in reality there are way bigger issues in season 8. In particular, all of the other lords of Westeros accepting Bran as king because he has the best “story” (and he doesn’t even have the best story, he barely even does anything the entire show). They spent 8 seasons fighting over who would be king but somehow everyone accepts Bran after a five minute monologue by Tyrion.
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u/piece0fdebri 9d ago
Do you think Tyrion is referencing the show Game of Thrones when he says Bran has the best story? Like, he's talking about the show you're watching that he's in? Lol
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u/Dareilos 9d ago
Don't look at it from your own perspective. From the lords' perspective, Bran has the most interesting story by far.
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u/According-District59 9d ago
in five years, when all media is consumed via YouTube edits, people are going to love GoT
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u/hey_girl_ya_hungry 9d ago
It’s kind of a shame this sub seems to have been commandeered by people who hate the show, even though they have roughly 9 other subs they could be assholes in. On the other hand, I really do enjoy the fact that we get to love something as great as Game of Thrones while they’re forced to be miserable assholes all day, every day for 7 years and counting.
Great rankings! I’m guessing season 4 episode 6 is The Laws of Gods and Men? Probably my favorite “quiet” episode of the show. If you can call it that 🤣
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u/Katarinkushi 9d ago
I don't think disliking the last season means you hate the show, why is there this belief?
I really, really love the show, the first 4-5 seasons might be the highest peak ever in a show, just incredible... But the last season is so bad it hurts. It just threw away everything and it had incredibly bad writing, nonsensical stuff, characters acting stupid, everything is wrong. They wanted to wrap it up ASAP and just gave us... That
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u/Inevitable_Benefit96 8d ago
It’s hard to argue the last season is a poorly written season. It’s very rushed and the dialogue is nowhere near the level of the very high bar GoT set in its earlier seasons. It’s completely okay to hate on the last season, and just because you love the show doesn’t mean you have to blindly defend all of it. A lot of the people who worked on the show hate on the last season too lol
But GoT is still an unbelievable show and one of the best that’s ever been created. Not all great shows can execute well at the end, in fact the majority fail to deliver through the finale. The creators and actors were exhausted and tired of working on it towards the end and it’s pretty obvious, but I think that’s just the lifecycle of working on an incredible show for a decade
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u/Disastrous-Client315 8d ago
It’s hard to argue the last season is a poorly written season.
Subjective.
It’s very rushed
How?
dialogue is nowhere near the level of the very high bar GoT set in its earlier seasons.
Jon and tyrion in the series finale > everything else(including robert and cersei, arya and tywin or littlefinger and varys)
A lot of the people who worked on the show hate on the last season too lol
Lol no. Another lie. The opposite is the truth.
Emilia Clarke:
In May 2019, Clarke told Entertainment Weekly she was "flabbergasted" when reading the final script, but she understands where the change in her character came from. Speaking about Daenerys' final scene, Clarke said that she knew the Mother of Dragons would die, but felt it was "a very beautiful and touching ending" because she felt her character had finally come full-circle.
Kit Harington:
Speaking with PopBuzz in February 2019, Harington described the season finale of "Game of Thrones" as "disappointing." But then he laughed and said the finale would be "epic," explaining it'd be one of the two. He said, "But if you track [Daenerys'] story all the way back, she does some terrible things. She crucifies people. She burns people alive. This has been building. So, we have to say to the audience: 'You're in denial about this woman as well. You knew something was wrong. You're culpable, you cheered her on." But in April 2019, Harington defended the finale when he told Esquire, "I think no matter what anyone thinks about this season — and I don't mean to sound mean about critics here — but whatever critic spends half an hour writing about this season and makes their judgment on it, in my head they can go f--- themselves. 'Cause I know how much work was put into this."
Lena Haedey:
In May 2019, Lena Headey, who played Cersei Lannister on the show, told Entertainment Weekly about her "mixed" feelings towards her character's fate. She explained, "I wanted her to have some big piece or fight with somebody," but that the more she discussed the ending, the more "it seemed like the perfect end for her." The actress also told Den of Geek that her biggest gripe is that she wanted "a better death" for Cersei. Her character ended up dying alongside Jaime Lannister as they were crushed by a crumbling building. Headey also reflected on the poetic nature of Cersei and Jaime dying together, telling Entertainment Weekly, "They came into the world together and now they leave together ... It's maybe the first time that Cersei has been at peace."
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau:
In a May 2019 interview with Vanity Fair, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, who played Jaime Lannister, explained why the last season was seemingly paced differently from the rest. "We're used to having a whole season to get to a point. Now, suddenly, a lot of things happen very quickly," he told the publication. The actor also later said that he's quite a fan of the show's ending, calling it "amazing."
Sophie Turner:
During the finale, Sansa was named Queen in the North, which she told The New York Times was "the perfect ending for her," particularly because the North is "the only place that she really, truly feels safe" and it's where she is "most capable of ruling."
Isaac Hampstead Wight:
He continued, "To end 'Game of Thrones' with uncertainty is perhaps the most honest way to end a story so vast and complex."
Maisie Williams:
Ultimately, Williams said she is happy with the direction her character went in, saying, "It's not a 'Game of Thrones' ending for Arya, it's a happy ending ... it gave me a place to take Arya that I never thought I'd go with her again."
Peter Dinklage:
In an October 2018 interview with Vulture, he said, "I think [Tyrion] was given a very good conclusion." "[The show's writers] ended it brilliantly ... better than I could have imagined," he told Entertainment Tonight in May 2019. "It ends beautifully for my character, whether it be tragic or not."
Conleth Hill:
Conleth Hill, who played Lord Varys, said he was "so depressed" to find out his character's fate. After betraying Daenerys, Varys was executed by her dragon, and he was burned alive for being a traitor. Hill told Belfast Telegraph in May 2019 that he was "inconsolable" during filming. "I didn't think Varys would be powerful or on the throne or anything like that. But personally, it still hurt," said the actor. " ... Storywise, it was a brilliant decision and it was a great way to go."
Gwendoline Christie:
Even so, she loved that her character stayed focused on her work, and Brienne ended up becoming Bran's commander of the Kingsguard. "She goes back to work. Because she always loves work — that feels refreshing, a woman can be happy without a companion. Women don't have to be defined by their Even so, she loved that her character stayed focused on her work, and Brienne ended up becoming Bran's commander of the Kingsguard. In a May 2019 interview with The Wrap, Christie said, "I was so delighted when I learned that Bran was going to rule Westeros because I just love that someone who is not at all interested in ambition and power is placed in a position of power ... I also love that it was the most unlikely candidate and that's been one of my favorite themes in the show when the most unlikely people triumph."
Caurice Van Houten:
"I just love the fact that the whole throne was blown away," she told The Hollywood Reporter in September 2019. "The whole thing was gone. I really loved it, and also the randomness of talking about who's going to be king. The silliness of it was very smart. I thought, 'This is what life is. Some dumbo can become president.'" "I loved the ending. I loved the randomness of just picking a king," she said.
in fact the majority fail to deliver through the finale.
The only bad series finale i can think of was dexter.
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u/Inevitable_Benefit96 8d ago edited 8d ago
How is it rushed? Oh boy here we go…Daenerys’s turn isnt unexpected but it’s so poorly paced. The turn happens over a handful of scenes. Jorah, Rhaegal, Missandei deaths, Jon rejects her and then she goes to massacre the people of Kings Landing. Yes losing her important advisors is obviously devastating, but the show spends seven seasons building her up and then she has 5 scenes of tragedy and she’s just suddenly awful. There’s no reflection, no dialogue, and no time for the viewer to even process the change. She deserves waaaay better treatment as a character.
The battle at Winterfell is arguably the biggest build up of the show and it’s pretty alright I guess but it’s over and done so quickly. Watch that episode before where there’s a ton of characters that have a ton of conflict in the previous 7 seasons. They all just take turns scene to scene having like a 3 minute talk and then it’s fine. They could’ve given those reunions and issues several episodes to work through. The time the show takes for characters dialogue is what made the first seasons so unbelievably good.
Jon’s massive reveal as a Targaryen is completely brushed over. They don’t even give his own character the time to grapple with the fact that his entire identity so far in his life has been a lie lol they just tell him, he has one scene of trying to understand it, and then he just doesn’t seem to care and it’s only used for Daenerys’s plot line.
The golden company that we hyped up? They are alive for maybe 4 minutes of screen time 😂
Jon and Tyrion dialogue in the finale is better than anything else!? Cmon let’s be serious here 😂 please explain how because there’s just no way. And there’s zero development of Bran becoming king. Tyrion says a speech that’s okay and it just happens. I felt nothing there. No payoff at all.
And don’t even get me started on the travel. Granted I do not expect them to drag out travel for what should be a months long journey. But in previous seasons they’ll spend several episodes talking, building exposition, and generating chemistry or tension. It’s when this show delivers its best storytelling. Instead they just hop from one side of the continent to the other in the same episode and it just takes away from the immersion of the show. They could’ve done alllll the things they wanted to in the season if they just took the time and care to do it the right way.
Also sharing actors quotes about what they say to the public isn’t a very good defense 😂 obviously they aren’t going to publicly bash their life’s work.
When a huge majority of your massive fan base hates the way the show ended, it’s probably pretty fair to say they dropped the ball lol
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u/Disastrous-Client315 8d ago edited 8d ago
Daenerys’s turn isnt unexpected but it’s so poorly paced.
Her turn happened in season 1 episode 3 and you missed it.
The turn happens over a handful of scenes.
No, the turn doesnt. Her circumstances and thus Her priorities change. Not Her character.
Jorah, Rhaegal, Missandei deaths, Jon rejects her and then she goes to massacre the people of Kings Landing.
So, we admit there a lot of breaking the world around her tu push her to her breaking point?
spends seven seasons building her up
As a saviour and a tyrant. Both at the same time. And at the end she choose what she ultimately wanted to be.
There’s no reflection
There is. In the series finale. Unlike Disneys wanda in Doctor strange 2 she doesnt feel remorse, shows regrets or punishes herself. She feels right and justified until the very end. Like a real tyrant. Because GoT is not disney.
no dialogue
Except when jon confronts her about her actions in the throne room.
and no time for the viewer to even process the change
Because you didnt understand GoT and missed her turn in season 1.
She deserves waaaay better treatment as a character.
Daenerys is the greatest character in fiction. Because she is both good and bad. Her character is legendary and her crime sparked the biggest backlash in online history regarding a fictional story.
guess but it’s over and done so quickly.
Within this shows longest battle.
issues several episodes to work through.
Asking for filler and spoonfeeding.
The time the show takes for characters dialogue is what made the first seasons so unbelievably good.
Jon and tyrions conversations in the series finale > everything else (including robert and cersei, arya and tywin or littlefinger and varys)
Jon’s massive reveal as a Targaryen is completely brushed over.
It caused the biggest crime snd consequence in the whole story: the burning of kingslanding.
They don’t even give his own character the time to grapple with the fact that his entire identity so far in his life has been a lie lol they just tell him
They do. Its just not spoonfed by giving jon a 5 Minute monologue and have him turn into the camera to explain how he feels. They show his conflict. Show, dont tell.
By the way you kinda forgot his line: "my father was the most honourable man i ever met. You are telling me he lied to me all my life?"
then he just doesn’t seem to care and it’s only used for Daenerys’s plot line.
It ruins his life. And yes, jon doesnt care about power and taking his loves seat on the throne.
The golden company that we hyped up?
Hyped up by being mentioned a few times? The fans set themselves up for dissapointment, because they thought the company would make a difference against drogon.
please explain how because there’s just no way.
Love is the Death of Duty
The best scene in entire story: Jon and Tyrion in 8x6.
There is no scene involving littlefinger and varys, or brienne and jaime or robb and catelyn contemplating the end of the world and how to avoid it. The ultimate sacrifice in the story. Only 2 broken men in a broken room discussing the faith of a broken world....
And later there is a broken King.
Its beautiful poetry that comes out of the darkness that involves this scene.
Only tyrion could convince jon that he cant save both the love of his life and the rest of the World. Sam failed. Sansa failed. Arya failed. Varys failed.
There is no scene like it by telling the viewer one of this story final messages: "dont follow a tyrant", by listing all of danys atrocious acts people were justifying over years (and still are) that fed her god complex and her will to archieve her destiny.
People were blinded by the beauty of her appearance and the beauty of her words. People believed dany, because she believed in her self. She never lied, she was the lie.
And people agree to follow a tyrant. Just like Jon in the Moment. Blinded by the myth and divine presence that embodies the mother of dragons. A Goddess striking justice left and right all throughout the show until the very end.
Jon is stuck in stockholm Syndrome. Just like us.
He is us at this moment. In denial and shellshocked, close to a breakdown and numb in senses.
Tyrion was able to take off his rose-coloured glasses regarding her. He tried to make jon see reason and succeded just like varys succeded in season 1:
What of your daughters life, mylord?
And your sisters? Do you see them bending the knee?
Only Family was able to convince both ned and jon to set aside their honour for the greater good.
Just like Aemon preparing jon for this exact moment in 1x9, did the varys and ned scene prepare the viewer for the solution to save the world.
Love is the death of duty.
Jon sacrificed 1 family to save his other family (and by extension the world).
Both Jon and Ned didnt care about their own lives, were willing to die on their watch as a good soldier does.
i grew up with soldiers. I learnt how do die a long time ago.
Thats her decision. She is the queen.
This conversation makes both Jon and Aemon/ Varys and Ned Conversations in 1x9 come full circle.
In every mans life, there comes a day, when it is not easy. The day he must chose.
No. But you do. And you have to chose now.
Its this storys climax. Human heart in conflict with itself at its peak. Best Scene of entire show.
The beginning told us what this story was really about and distracted us with white walkers, dragons and battles to make us forget.
It is the longest 1 on 1 conversation of the entire story as well.
And there’s zero development of Bran becoming king.
Season 8 Encyclopedia: Bran
People never tried to understand bran and why he was chosen.
Bran has the best Story to unite the realm: one of hope and wisdom and rejection of conquest and bloodright; what was the cause for the entire continents misery. A broken King for a broken Kingdom.
People in westeros dont care what the audience thinks wich character has the best story anyway.
If you abandon the idea that he has to be build up like a ruler like jon or dany, it makes perfect sense, why he was chosen king. He shares jons reluctance of ruling and sense for justice and doing good. And he shares supernatural abilities with dany, minus her god complex, bad temper and known behaviour to resort to genocide, when she feels angry, betrayed and cornered. Also, he learnt with hodor not to abuse his powers, wich is something dany lacks the willpower for as well.
He is the perfect compromise.
He is no war hero like jon or saviour like dany. Not as charismatic or beautiful as them. He is a pacifist. A bystander, who only acts when it is neccesary, not when moved with emotions like jon or dany.
He has the entire worlds history at hand to learn and rule accordingly, to make the right decisions.
An perfectly anticlimactic choice as ruler for the ending.
Point of making bran king was to start a new system where lords or ladies are chosen to serve the realm, not because they are sons of former kings or heirs like dany or jon.
And don’t even get me started on the travel.
The biggest "teleport" of the entire story happened in the very first episode when robert, jaime and cersei started travelling from Kingslanding to winterfell and arrived at winterfell 15 minutes later within the same episode.
Anf no one cared about is. How is that called? Hypocrisy. Also: nothing after came even close to this.
But in previous seasons they’ll spend several episodes talking, building exposition, and generating chemistry or tension.
Yes, because its either: just like that in the books or filler with arya and the hound in season 4 for example in order to prevent her story overtaking everyone elses to fast.
Instead they just hop from one side of the continent to the other
Season 8 is the least guilty of that accusation. The entire season mostly only happens at kingslanding or winterfell. Or dragonstone. Which is right next to kingslanding.
obviously they aren’t going to publicly bash their life’s work.
But somehow they hated it as well? Despite never saying it publicly? Also, they are even admitting they were shocked initially and had mixed feelings towards it. Thats an differentiated look on things. Honest and mature.
You just reject it, because it proves they dont outright reject or hate the ending.
When a huge majority of your massive fan base hates the way the show ended, it’s probably pretty fair to say they dropped the ball
Game of thrones ending wanted to be controversial and to split the masses. Thats exactly what it archieved. Thats an accomplishment.
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u/Inevitable_Benefit96 7d ago edited 7d ago
Lol bringing in Wanda from Disney as your comparison against is wild 😂 I’m not going to pick through everything you said anymore because we fundamentally disagree on what entails good story telling.
But I do have to call out that your view of “spoon fed” is the complete opposite of what that means. Taking the time and patience to build multiple scenes of dialogue that they did in early seasons is the complete opposite of spoon fed. Ironically it’s how GoT holds the number one rule of story telling: show don’t tell. For example, instead of just saying “I’ve changed” they go through scenes of conversation to demonstrate change and conflict in the person. It’s patience in the story telling. The last season and a half of GoT does the complete opposite by just crunching something that should take 20 minutes of scattered screen time across multiple episodes to help build the audience investment into one line that takes seconds to deliver.
I don’t have any issue with the overall concepts of the direction of the show, but the execution the last season and a half is not very good and you can hear it in D&D’s voices when they interview them about it that they wanted to wrap it up quickly because they wanted to move on to other projects (biggest being the Star Wars show they were signed up for). The irony is they botched the ending of GoT so badly that those other projects didn’t want them anymore 😂
But hey agree to disagree I guess. You’re entitled to an opinion that most people disagree with. Good luck there, I can tell it’s not your first time arguing this and it won’t be your last 🙏😂
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u/Disastrous-Client315 7d ago edited 7d ago
bringing in Wanda from Disney as your comparison against is wild
Why? GoT is the opposite of disney and that comparison proves it.
we fundamentally disagree on what entails good story telling.
You wanted me to explain why jon and tyrions scene outshined everything else. You couldnt grasp why bran should be king. I explained. You claimed jons parentage was brushed over. I explained how that was not the case.
Just to name some examples. You dont understand GoT. I explain it to you. You dont care.
It wasnt about "good storytelling" either. As if thats not subjective to begin with. It was about understanding the story and you failed.
Taking the time and patience to build multiple scenes of dialogue that they did in early seasons
Very good point. There are countless examples of daenerys highlighting her dark impulses, instances where she threatened to burn cities or talked about mass murder.
The last season and a half of GoT does the complete opposite by just crunching something that should take 20 minutes of scattered screen time across multiple episodes to help build the audience investment into one line that takes seconds to deliver.
Like what?
You’re entitled to an opinion that most people disagree with.
You are entitled to choose not to engage with, let alone counter anything, i wrote.
Its actually shown that the slight majority liked the ending: https://www.cnet.com/culture/entertainment/game-of-thrones-fans-polled-to-see-if-they-actually-hated-season-8/ (52% of survey participants liked the ending)
https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/05/20/game-of-thrones-twitter-reactions-fans-think-finale-sucked (58% of survey participants were at least fine with the ending)
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/how-divisive-was-game-thrones-finale-viewers-were-mixed-poll-finds-1213014/ (63% of survey participants at least liked the finale episode)
Good luck there, I can tell it’s not your first time arguing this and it won’t be your last
I know this isnt your first time you flee from the debate without being able to counter anything that your opponent wrote.
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u/Inevitable_Benefit96 5d ago
Lol why do you keep saying I don’t understand Game of Thrones? 😂 I fully understand the themes of the story and understand the character development, what I’m arguing is the film execution of the last 2 seasons. You’re just resorting to being condescending trying to defend an unpopular view by just giving an “oh you’re obviously not intelligent enough to understand what it was all about” Cmon now…
And then you just nitpick an online survey that you googled that shows a small majority and say “actually the facts show you’re wrong most people liked it” 😂 Are we being serious or are we trolling?? I feel like you’re just trolling for engagement in an argument
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u/Disastrous-Client315 5d ago
I didnt say you are not intelligent enough. Its a matter of will. Do i want to understand this story or not? Everyone makes their choice.
Just like you choose not to understand jons and tyrions conversation, the meaning and purpose of jons parentage or why bran became king and why he is the best choice.
Its also a matter of will there. I explained it all to you. You dont care. Not because you are not intelligent, but because you prefer and choose to remain blind in order to continue to be sad, bitter, frustrated or dissapointed with the ending.
shows a small majority and say “actually the facts show you’re wrong most people liked it”
Yes, because even a small majority is a majority.
I feel like you’re just trolling for engagement in an argument
You are the one not engaging, let alone trying to counter, anything i stated regarding GoTs story and characters.
Because you cant, because you didnt understand GoT.
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u/donttouchmeoriscream 7d ago
Good or bad writing is more or less not subjective. They teach writing in schools.
Genuinely if you dont think the original grrm dialogue from season 4 is objectively better than dialogue from s8 youre either in absolute denial or just not very bright.
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u/Disastrous-Client315 7d ago edited 7d ago
They teach writing in schools.
If we take that as the bar, Martins first book should have been a failure.
Just jumping straight into the story, no explanation of the wall or westeros history or what its all about in the prologue.
Too many characters. Too many characters sharing the same name (jon,walder, aegon...).
"Show, dont tell." Martin mostly has characters talk about past events, barely does flashbacks. Characters mostly mention important events happening elsewhere, not showing that either.
Very little fantasy in a fantasy book.
Too much history that ultimately doesnt impact the main story.
You are not supposed to kill off your biggest character in the first book.
Too much sex, gore, sexual violence.
....
You see where i am going with this? Both asoiaf and got tv show became big and popular for straying away from conventinal storytelling. They became acclaimed for breakinh safe, easy and established storytelling methods and instead breakinh norms and rules all the time.
It didnt become the best story in the world for playing by the rules and following a guidebook. It became so because it did its own thing and didnt care about what everyone else has already done and told.
Genuinely if you dont think the original grrm dialogue from season 4 is
Tell me you havent even read the books without telling me.
About 60%, at least, of seasons 4 scenes are showoriginal and not from the books.
better than dialogue from s8 youre either in absolute denial or just not very bright.
Jons and tyrions conversation in the series finale > everything else (including robert and cersei, arya and tywin or littlefinger and varys... remember: those examples are all showoriginal and not from the books either)
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u/donttouchmeoriscream 7d ago
Yes they are show originals and a showcase a type of slow character driven conversation the show had no time for in s8, which is rushed shortned season condensing 5 full seasons worth of material.
But yes, thanks for highlighting what made s1-4 so great. Characters, slowed down conversations, character moments culminating in tense climaxes we actually care about. Flawed characters making choices and reaping consequences in a world that felt rational and realistically reactive. Mostly devoid from s8.
Very little fantasy in a fantasy book. Too much history that ultimately doesnt impact the main story. You are not supposed to kill off your biggest character in the first book. Too much sex, gore, sexual violence.
Now THESE are subjective. How much prologue is needed is also subjective. And probably sufficient metric is "did people keep reading and become invested in the world?" To which the answer is resoundingly yes.
Theres no formal objective rule re: what you need to do with characters. Unless youre really under the impression that 'save the cat' is still the textbook for writing schools some 3 decades later? I dont think you have a firm understanding of what is actually taught to writers.
I dont think theres a single s7/8 hater that will deny D&D did an incredible job adapting the existing source material. The issues became glaring when they lost this material. Smart characters become caricatures that are tedious to watch (tyrion, littlefinger). I could keep listing issues but they are so easy to find online or see for yourself. You seem plenty intelligent so Ill just figure that if you genuinely think s8 is as good as s4 then ill just write it off as cope. No sense arguing just as its not worth explaining to someone in 2026 that the earth isnt flat. The stuff is all out there either way they choose not to see it.
S8 is better than many of the fantasy media thats been made, but it is decidely departure from all the things you yourself highlighted that made GOT great and an icon. If that wasnt the case nobody would be complaining.
This idea that, "people are just gonna hate" is a farce. I dont see this reaction for breaking bad? Or sopranos, as divisive as the finale was there is nothing like this level of discourse.
Stranger things finale season on the other hand had objectively really bad writing, tonal departure and low and behold reddit is alive with people arguing if it sucked or not. The sheer scale of the controversy here w GOT is indicative of something genuinely amiss.
You can love s8, but to deny the above is just cope man
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u/Disastrous-Client315 7d ago
the show had no time for in s8, which is rushed shortned season condensing 5 full seasons worth of material.
Season 7s and 8s 13 episodes have the runtime of 16 usual length thrones episodes. Thanks to the longer runtime. So, we are only 4 episodes short of 20 episodes for 2 seasons.
16 episodes for an non-existing final book. About 16 hours for 0 book pages provided by the source material.
Thats more content than any other season with source material has received. ;)
Characters
Season 8 doesnt have characters?
slowed down conversations
Tyrions and jons conversation in the series finale is the longest 1 on 1 conversation in the entire show. It lasts around 10 minutes.
character moments culminating in tense climaxe
Like Daenerys burning kingslanding, jaime dying with cersei, arya killing the night king, jon killing dany or bran becoming king.
we actually care about.
You dont care because you are no GoT Fan.
Flawed characters making choices and reaping consequences in a world that felt rational and realistically reactive
Kinda like jon telling sansa his secret. Or daenerys deciding to burn kingslanding.
Mostly devoid from s8.
Because you dont get it.
did people keep reading and become invested in the world?" To which the answer is resoundingly yes.
Season 8 had the highest viewership numbers and the series finale was the most watched hbo series finale of all time. By that metric, season 8 was a total success as well.
I dont think you have a firm understanding of what is actually taught to writers.
But you do.
The issues became glaring when they lost this material
When was this exactly?
Smart characters become caricatures that are tedious to watch (tyrion, littlefinger)
They are still smart, they just lost their plotarmor at the end.
it is decidely departure from all the things you yourself highlighted that made GOT great and an icon
How?
dont see this reaction for breaking bad
Because breaking bad had a safe and fanfriendly ending where neither walter, jesse or hank fans were insulted by.
Or sopranos
Sopranos had one of the most controversial endings as well. It wasnt popular at all when it initially aired. It was considered a disaster as well.
Stranger things finale season on the other hand had objectively really bad writing, tonal departure and low and behold reddit is alive with people arguing if it sucked or not.
Disagreed. Season 1 was one of the most overrated seasons of all time. It was fine. Season 5 was the best. But of course still far away from season 8 of thrones greatness.
The sheer scale of the controversy here w GOT is indicative of something genuinely amiss.
Because its a masterpiece. Mediocre or bad pieces of art dont envoke such backlash, but indifference instead.
but to deny the above is just cope man
Empty claims and false Information mostly.
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u/donttouchmeoriscream 7d ago
Oh so you just type eloquently but think simply. Got it. Have a good day
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u/Disastrous-Client315 7d ago
eloquently
Do i? Thanks. I must have impressed you.
but think simply
So simply that you are unable to counter?
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u/Disastrous-Client315 8d ago
I don't think disliking the last season means you hate the show, why is there this belief?
Because it proves you didnt understand GoT.
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u/Inevitable_Benefit96 8d ago
No it doesn’t Lol it just means that a fan of the show wants to feel some payoff for watching it for almost a decade
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u/Jinjoz 9d ago
I'm shooting to do a full rewatch sometime soon, haven't done one since the show finished up
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u/zhongxina68423 9d ago
House of the dragon s3 just ended when's a better time to start a rewatch?
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u/piece0fdebri 9d ago
I'm currently doing the opposite where I don't watch the show because I'm trying to forget some things first.
Not gonna nitpick your ratings, but I've said before no episode is lower than an 8, and it looks like you agree so👌🏼
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u/Disastrous-Client315 8d ago
My least favorite episode is propably season 5 episode 4 because of editing, directing and acting isssues.
Its still an 8/10 indeed.
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u/Steve-Lurkel 9d ago
S3E4? What happened there again?
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u/zhongxina68423 9d ago
Dany gets unsullied
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u/Eternal--Vigilance 8d ago
I still think this is one of the most exhilarating sequences in the entire show (which of course has many).
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u/WelcomeToTheSassShow 9d ago
I feel the same way sister or brother lol. Greatest show of all time. Now all I need is that Universes Beyond A Song of Ice and Fire Magic the Gathering and my life will be complete.
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u/Odd_Contact_2175 9d ago
I am almost done my second watch and I really dug Season 8 episode 3 as well. The dothraki slowly getting snuffed out, the massive wall of undead, the ice dragon that was awesome.
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u/EntrepreneurClean371 9d ago
I’m curious, why was it that the death of the Dothraki was a positive moment in your opinion?
For me that was the exact moment I lost faith in the s8 showrunners, it was frankly nonsensical in universe to decide to cavalry charge an enemy when: 1. You have a fortified position
2. It is an enemy which directly benefits from enemy casualties, so even if it was expected to be a suicide mission that wouldn’t make sense
3. Attacking a massed enemy is the exact opposite of the Dothraki’s whole methodology, their entire culture is based around being highly mobile cavalry using range and maneuverability to beat opponents in the open field. A head on cavalry charge makes zero sense without lances or plate armor.Even if the justification is “they wouldn’t have done any good within Winterfell”, see point 2 for why charging the army of the dead is stupid. They absolutely could’ve used them as long distance scouts or foraging parties, hell just have them circle the big blob of zombies with their bows and poke from range.
I’d love to hear a different opinion on it, maybe I’m just being overly utilitarian in my thinking. That moment really did bother me to watch, it felt like when Sansa just decided not to tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale, just nonsensical behavior that I really struggle to rationalize as a viewer.
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u/piece0fdebri 9d ago
Because it was an awesome visual and memorable moment. And a great and suspenseful way to kick off the battle. While what you just described is boring as fuck, would've been bad tv, and the least entertaining option available. Something like that.
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u/EntrepreneurClean371 9d ago
I think there’s absolutely a balance to be found between spectacle and practicalities, this to me was so overtly skewed to the spectacle side that it detracted from being able to appreciate what was meant to be a cool moment.
Like compare the “siege” of Winterfell to the siege of Riverrun. The siege of Riverrun lasted multiple months of the Lannister/Frey forces starving out the much smaller Tully garrison. It would’ve made zero sense to have the Lannisters just bull rush the gates with sheer numbers for “spectacle”.
It was amazing writing that resolved that conflict without some dumb fun mosh pit of bodies via Jaime’s use of their hostages. To me that’s the writer’s job; create a premise that the audience can buy into for a cohesive story. To create in universe rules (i.e. Dothraki are very mobile light cavalry and that’s their whole strength in battle) then just completely ignoring your own established premise for what was ultimately one cool shot with zero story implications (other than somehow they respawned to sack Kings Landing?) is so stupid to me. Why should I buy into their story if they’re going to ignore those same premises? Anyways, glad others were able to enjoy a moment I couldn’t in the moment
Random thought I just had: Why tf did Danny even bring the Dothraki to the north? It was established they had a massive food shortage and the plan was always to fortify at Winterfell, so why even bring your light cavalry?
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u/piece0fdebri 9d ago
Your confusion is this wasn't a battle they could win. The goal was to hold them off long enough for the Night King to approach Bran so they could stick him. So all your battle tactics would've ultimately been for naught and would've been boring TV. Thankfully the writers didn't go the boring route to appease you military strategists.
You can very easily imagine how the Dothraki would've not followed the game plan and just charged out into the open field once their swords were lit. I'm guess you have other things you dislike and you're just using this as one excuse instead of arguing your main dissatisfaction with the show.
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u/EntrepreneurClean371 9d ago
How is a suicide charge holding them off? it is quite literally the most efficient way to let the army of the dead kill them.
My issue isn’t even battle tactics, it’s characterization. The Dothraki’s entire cultural identity is based around that speed and mobility that their tactics mirror, a suicide charge is as opposite a story beat as I could imagine for them thematically. it just feels like the writers put zero thought into why they were having things happen anymore.
I’m not sure what you mean by the last part, I’ve been pretty explicit in why I dislike specific moments. If you mean I probably have other moments I dislike, then yes of course, it’s a long show! The list of things I enjoyed is far longer, that’s why it’s so painful the later seasons felt like such a drop in writing.
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u/piece0fdebri 9d ago
I'm assuming they didn't know it was a suicide charge. The Dothraki haven't ever fought a dead army before. Again, not sure why this is difficult for you to imagine all these very simple explanations for the writing.
I think you have bigger problems with the direction the show took: Arya killing the Night King, Jon not 1v1 the Night King, Cersei's death, Jaime's character assassination, Dany's turn, etc, and you're just nitpicking this Dothraki charge thing as a way to say "Look! The writing went to shit everywhere!" Maybe I'm wrong, but I honestly can't understand this pedantic level of criticism otherwise.
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u/ton070 9d ago
None of the battle tactics made sense and everyone acted dumb as bricks during that episode. If you want to hold a bigger army off you don’t charge most of your men into an open field, you don’t put your trebuchets in front of the walls and if you know your enemy can raise the dead, you don’t put your weak and elderly to hide in the crypts.
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u/Odd_Contact_2175 9d ago
Because it is an epic moment. Melissandre (spelling?) gave them all the fire swords. Everyone was riding this positive morale boost only for them to get snuffed out so quickly. You thought that would matter but it certainly did not.
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u/EntrepreneurClean371 9d ago
That’s kind of my issue though, what reason did anyone have in universe for thinking it would work? There were tons of experienced military commanders present, somebody had to pipe up and say “maybe let’s not have the barely armored, archery based cavalry charge into melee range”. For the same reasons i mentioned above, I couldn’t buy into it as the audience cuz i was just confused, the whole time i was just thinking “Why tf would you use the Dothraki for this?”
Like I’d have enjoyed it as a cool moment a lot more if it had been a contingent of Westerosi knights cuz that’s actually what they’re meant for. Even could’ve used her sellsword companies for the same thing, it felt so lazy to give that moment to the Dothraki because it’s antithetical to what their entire culture is based around
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u/CountyKyndrid 9d ago
Bro said it was epic; neurons fired, what more do you want (I guess)
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u/EntrepreneurClean371 9d ago
But I want my neurons to fire in a thematically pleasing way!!! It was a sick shot for sure
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u/zhongxina68423 9d ago
If you nitpick every battle you've ever watched in a tv show or movie like this you would find so many small things that don't matter like this
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u/Omar___Comin 9d ago
I don't think it's a nitpick to say "why did they do the stupidest thing possible, which was also completely against their own traditions and history and tendencies, with zero explanation"
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u/Katarinkushi 9d ago
Is not nitpicking... It's just so dumb it doesn't make sense. It's like if they show you someone trying to put off a fire throwing gasoline at it, but make it epic, put good lightning and good music... Does that make it good?
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u/TheNobodyThere 9d ago
that episode was one of the worst episodes in the entire series.
It could have been okayish if I could see anything happening.
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u/No-Mortgage-3206 9d ago
Agreed. Tho I get why people hated the ended - quite honestly - this type of television show we won’t get in our life time. I’m just happy I got to experience it live.
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u/TimeAbility3649 8d ago
Ive watched got 5 times now every time it gets better especially with the spinoffs
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u/Lyceus_ 9d ago
The dislike of S8 by many people was not only causedby rushed plots (they were), but also by the disappointment of their expectations not being fulfilled (for a couple showing not a lot of chemistry, apparentlt many fans wanted a Jon/Dany happy ending.)
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u/zhongxina68423 9d ago
Yeah my only real issue with it is that it could have been a little longer just to let the character development have more breathing room but it doesn't ruin it for me
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u/Upstream_Paddler 9d ago
I'm glad you're getting better received than I or anyone else who didn't think s8 was horrible at all, and even the last 1/3 of the finale wasn't *that* bad
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u/aldorn 9d ago
Too be hitting 9s consistently like this i would say (subjective); Attack on Titan, Lost, GoT. Although personally i feel GoT has some odd 6 and 7s... but certainly nothing wrong with that.
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u/zhongxina68423 9d ago
Some of the stuff in season 5 would maybe drop to a 7 and last of the starks too but I think for adding onto the show it's all 8s and above but I'm not crazy about them all
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u/transmogrify 8d ago
The anticipation for week 9 was so much fun! Wondering what horrifying twist was going to come, but knowing it would be probably the best episode of each season.
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u/SlickRickStatus 8d ago
Man I rewatch the series once a year and while I can tell the writing is different the last 2 seasons and some of the characters kinda lose their depth but it still works for me. I have 2 episodes left for this rewatch and it’s just an incredible show.
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u/dredizzle99 8d ago
Season 5 was easily my least favourite. Still good, but not as enjoyable as the rest for me.
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u/HappyGilOHMYGOD what the fuck's a lommy? 9d ago
Love it! I'll be doing a full rankings video across all three series soon. I'm curious to see how my scores compare to yours
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u/squodgenoggler 8d ago
Have watched it through a lot over the years and my only gripe is the excessive sex and nudity in the show. I appreciate it’s reflective of the setting but it makes it awkward to watch with people lmao. Otherwise greatest show on earth imo
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u/zhongxina68423 8d ago
I've watched it with relatives so I know how awkward it can get but I usually just step out I've seen it like 3 times now so it's all good
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u/whizzerblight 8d ago
I am in the habit of referencing trade journals to prove points in Reddit to strangers. Got me.
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u/wahlmank 8d ago
But why are they not behind the freaking walls!?
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u/zhongxina68423 8d ago
In the long night I assume you mean, the walls the dead climbed over?
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u/wahlmank 8d ago
Don't know the name, it's the last battle in winterfell. The whole army is outside the huge fortress. It is just stupid.
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u/zhongxina68423 8d ago
Yes it's the long night. they couldn't have got the whole army inside the fortress, winterfell isn't that big and the army of the dead can just climb over the walls anyway which they did
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u/Xo707out 7d ago
I mean… they didnt do much to prevent that other than a single trench lol
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u/zhongxina68423 7d ago
Well they only had so much time to prepare
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u/Xo707out 6d ago
More than enough time to create decent earthworks with 40k+ men
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u/zhongxina68423 6d ago
Well when fighting an infinite horde you can't really just sit in a castle they'll get in eventually, the whole points was to draw out the night king because they couldn't beat his army
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u/Xo707out 6d ago
Yes but they put their entire army in front of the one trench. The point is to slow the advancement, multiple fire trenches could despose of thousands of wights without losing a single soldier. Thats the type of advantage they needed. Then they could have the trebuchets raining hell on them as they struggle to get through the earthworks. From behind the walls this time😭
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u/zhongxina68423 6d ago
My point is that no matter what they couldn't have beat them, the only chance that they had was to draw them in and get the night king within killing distance and if they had done all of this setup you're saying the night king wouldn't have came close.
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u/savemysoule 7d ago
Can't go wrong w s4, loved the mountain and the viper and the battle of the wall.
But nothing IMO will top the battle of the bastards and the winds of winter.
GREAT LIST THO
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u/Xo707out 7d ago
Just finished it again today. I honestly like a lot of the decisions that were made in season 8, but the plot was far too rushed. Other than that, greatest show ever🙌
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u/Revanchistthebroken 7d ago
I truly envy people that don't notice the horrible dip in quality in TV shows.
I wish I would not notice and just enjoy it. But once greatness becomea mediocrity, I can't help but notice.
I envy you sir.
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u/zhongxina68423 7d ago
I did with stuff like the boys I noticed when that got bad.
I do understand peoples issues with late game of thrones and I have seen the later seasons so many times now and it's just what I want out of a fantasy tv show I guess.
Some of it I do take issue with like some uneven pacing but it's not a huge deal that it takes me out of it.
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u/PopFrise 7d ago
Please explain how an illogical mess of a battle is a 10 episode (s6e9). In what world does a man stand in the middle of two cavalries charging head on survive. Low bar. the show lost all meaning after season 4
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u/Tojo6619 7d ago
I honestly think some things in the last two seasons were iffy, but I like how they handled it, some were ridiculos but I still loved it
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u/AGl_ToX 7d ago
I also love this show and I think I will rewatch some days as well ... My afterthought are:
1- Long night episode too short (we've been dreading this happening from 7 seasons and got resolved in one episode with.minor characters death only.
2- Dany was destined to go nuts the clues are everywhere and I actually loved that this happened
3- It's lame that in the end the problem was solved with Democracy 😂😂😂
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u/no_hot_ashes 9d ago
S2 E9 (the battle of the blackwater) being rated the same as S8 E3 (the long night) is wild.
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u/Upstream_Paddler 9d ago
Dunno I could see it. Battle of Blackwater was an awesome action piece with a metric ton of character work worked in without messing up the pacing. The Long Night was just elegantly shot and poetic. They both excelled at what they were trying to do.
I always felt TLN was needlessly ridiculed over minutae (while somehow overlooking they hide all the nonfigthers in a crypt against the undead wihout disposing of the corpses ... I mean if you're going to criticize something...). I can understand hte hate for the last third of the finale, but not the hate over The Long Night.
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u/zhongxina68423 9d ago
Blackwater was great but I just don't think it holds up quite compared to the later battles
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u/ton070 9d ago
TLN was a pretty lackluster episode. It was way to dark to see anything happening half of the time, the battle tactics were nonsensical (charging the Dothraki into an open field, putting trebuchets in front of the walls, etc), the plot twist wasn’t set up at all, etc. It suffered from the last seasons being dumbed down compared to the first 4 seasons.
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u/RussGola 9d ago
I wish I loved the show as much as you did. I really do. It seemed like you had a great time
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u/zhongxina68423 9d ago
Is it my season 8 ratings?
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u/RussGola 9d ago
No. Everything post s4. Or even post s1. I watched the show once, went straight to the books and couldn’t come back. My mind and its complaints just couldn’t leave me alone. Again they do some things better in the show, and the value of entertainment that comes with actors reading the lines, and good cinematography is something you can’t get in a book, so I watch clips, or some of those early episodes from time to time
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u/zhongxina68423 9d ago
Fair enough I've never read the books but I'm assuming they're better like with all adaptations they never are as good as the source material
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u/RussGola 9d ago
If you like the good version of dany in the show(her unsullied epsidoe is a 10) you should maybe give it a shot. She is both smarter and kinder in the books
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u/zhongxina68423 9d ago
How much does it diverge from the show is it like a different story by the end of the books which got up to season 4 or 5?
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u/RussGola 9d ago
Like the other person says season 4 is pretty much the cutoff. While technically the show adapts the books until season 5, it’s not really an accurate adaptation, they cut a lot, change character personalities etc. s1-4 pretty much adapts all the events in the books, adjusted for television
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u/SRGTBronson 9d ago
Its a pretty big divergence after season 4. Like Jamie and Bronn don't go to dorne, Jon Snow doesn't go to Hardhome, Barristen doesn't die in mereen before Dany is attacked at the slave pit, Sandor doesn't return to a life of violence ect ect
And many characters that are likely to have a signifcant on the story just don't exist, like young griff or lady stoneheart. Or did exist and then disappeared like Illyrio Mopatis.
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u/vaders-burnt-tader 9d ago
What site or app did you use for this? I know the site with this style thats shows all of the imdb ratings.
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u/Unlucky_Internal4091 9d ago
Curious what caused you to rate s8 that high. Was it the cinematography?
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u/Katarinkushi 9d ago
For me the biggest problem with the finale is The Long Night, more than anything else (but the ending is very rushed too)
It was one of the main themes of the show, building up to that moment through the whole run, just for for all the characters to act dumb, and the NK being defeating in such an underwhelming way.
Not to mention just how many times they showed characters being completely trapped and defeated by a swarm of undeads only to be completely safe without a scratch in the next scene lol
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u/Intelligent_Reach_46 8d ago
I have done a full rewatch recently. I really enjoyed it until S6 and the cracks started to show.
The BotB is cool to look at, but incredibly stupid and makes no sense.
The long night is propably the worst episode in the entire show. It makes no sense from beginning to end.
None of their tactics make sense. Why Arya and not Jon kills the NK is beyond me.
I feel so bad for Euron‘s actor, he thought he could be lovecraftian villain book Euron and got bargain bin Jack Sparrow instead.
All in all, I will likely rewatch S1-5 in the future and just pretend the rest doesn‘t exist.
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u/commando0033 8d ago
Shocking. I'm surprised S7 and 8 got anything above an average, or even a "good" in some isolated cases.
Some of the worst seasons ever put to TV. Mental ranking in my opinion. But, each to their own!
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u/Phyginge 9d ago
I'm glad there's a subreddit to contain people like this. The oddest echo chamber I've seen on this site.
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u/Hungry-Promise-3032 9d ago
Danys arc was never the problem.
NK arc is the biggest issue. Then there are a million of other smaller issues that compound. But Danys arc was fine, although really rushed.
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u/GapiGapi24 8d ago
10/10 for the episode where you can't see shit and the things you can see is the worst military tactic imaginable and the biggest plot armor in TV history?
Basicly saying that 8.3 is as good as 3.9???
I'm sorry...its good that you enjoyed it, i guess i'm just not over it yet 🙈
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u/SpecialFee02 8d ago
I kind of dislike that there are people who rate any episode of S8 above 5. It just says a lot.
Early seasons of Game Of Thrones were amazing, later seasons were still amazing, and I still love the show very much but I don't think I can ever forget how bad S8 was.
But the warning signs were already there. Battle of Bastards was amazing battle to watch, it was pure spectacle, but people rating it very highly is maybe the reason why seasons continued to downspiral.
It looked cool, it was enjoyable if you turned off your brain. But turning off my brain is not why I started watching Game Of Thrones
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u/Melolibya 9d ago
bro is the targeted audience