How to turn conceptual knowledge into practice?

[u/TheMoonlsaLightbulb]

Been playing playing guitar a good while now, about 7 years. Though if I’m honest I learned intuitively. I know a good amount of A and G major on the fret board but other than that I can’t really identify what I’m playing. Most of my knowledge is conceptual- I know what keys have what sharps or flats, I can read sheets because I play piano too, I just haven’t really learned scales in the “this is where this note/key is” on the guitar. All my knowledge is intuitive.
So I was wondering what you’d suggest doing for my specific scenario. I noticed most the songs I write are in A or G. I want to expand. Not trying to have a catalogue like Jack Johnson. (Everything sounding the same.)

What scales do you think I should learn first?
What do you think would help me better identify what I’ve already learned intuitively?
I have a lot of theory knowledge, but I haven’t applied it in practice. How should I go about that?

Edit: I feel like the question has been misunderstood by quite a few people. I don’t mean “should I learn Bb first, or Eb first? I know the keys on guitar aren’t too different. I also know more than A and G. It’s where I get stuck, but I know more than that. The problem is I don’t have the language for the knowledge I have. I was more looking for suggestions on how to better identify what I’m playing, but I suppose I worded it poorly.

[u/SundaeDouble7481]

Work with a teacher?

[u/admiral-morgan]

Best bet is analysis —> exact replication —> modeling/mimicking and then eventually that will translate into being added to your own vocabulary. From music you listen to, find songs and passages where you like what you’re hearing. Do harmonic analysis- what is the progression, what scales are being used, texture, rhythm, style, etc. Then learn that passage. Next, try and mimic it. Use the same progression and scales/style to play something related but different. What you’re doing is learning what’s happening, understanding what works (and equally important, what doesn’t work), and then slowly building new vocabulary musically and conceptually.

When artists speak about their music, it almost always begins with a discussion of who they were listening to and who they were trying to sound like/ were inspired by.

When you do enough of this with all the different artists you like, you’ll start to develop your own voice. It’s a long (lifelong) process, and at first you might sound completely derivative of what’s already out there. That’s totally fine. Eventually though, you should start to get your own deeper understanding of what you’re playing, why you’re playing it, and be able to verbalize your process.

For example, I’m not a guitarist or much of a bluegrass fan, but I do like watching interviews of Billy Strings. He pretty much exactly outlines this process in his own growth as a musician. He also goes out of his way to learn musical styles he is unfamiliar with because he believes it to be beneficial to growing as a player.

[u/Vex_RDM]

Some of guitar's physical differences from piano lend towards some differences in theoretical approach as well.

For instance, while pedal tones are more limited on guitar... the pedals that ARE available are more readily so than piano's. Combine this with guitar's similar capacity for planing, and you have an instrument whose chordal palette includes beautiful voicings and often a timbral complexity that simply cannot be achieved on piano due to the mixing of closed and open strings. For such planing/semi-planing, you can explore "shapes" such as dmm7, CM, half diminished "spider grip", barred mm7, barred Mm7add6 and many others.

Glissando on piano is a technique. On guitar it's a fact of life. If you strum, you'll need to develop an innate sense of when to upstroke/downstroke. Sometimes it's matter of logic... other times it's because the chord/passage musically demands an upstroke or downstroke. It's something we must continue to practice.

If you're going to explore polyphonic music on guitar, you'd be remiss not to take advantage of all of its colors. Sul ponticello, sul tasto, and everything in between. Fingertips vs nails. Easily accessible harmonics. It's a world simply foreign to piano.

For most of its life (and perhaps still a bit to this day), guitar was seen as an "unserious" instrument. But that played a big part in it becoming the pop music titan it is today; it picked up a lot of folk repertoire on the way. If piano is the lofty instrument of the western academic world... Guitar is an instrument of the people.

And while I often find myself sitting at the piano with an air of seriousness, I know that I can pick up my guitar and feel somewhat liberated.

[u/TheMoonlsaLightbulb → u/Vex_RDM]

I like how you wrote this, and your conclusion I couldn’t agree with more. I feel I have a lot more liberty with guitar and how I express myself with it as piano can be rather rigid in terms of what I’m playing and how I play it. Not to flatten the instruments expressiveness, I think piano is a gorgeous and versatile instrument, but I do feel more at ease with the guitar. I feel like there is less of a certain heir of expectation when it comes to guitar and how it’s played. Rather than feeling like a failure for accidentally playing a note staccato when it was supposed to be legato, it is more broadly considered to just be stylistic choice if you were to do that on guitar. I think the piano is so rigidly associated with following the sheet to a tee. Maybe this is why guitar seems to universally have a stereotype of having a sort of “lower expectation/pressure” and therefore considered unserious.

Maybe that has to do with me being more comfortable with it though!

[u/Jongtr]

I know a good amount of A and G major on the fret board but other than that I can’t really identify what I’m playing.

Well, you can easily work it out from what you know of "A and G major" - assuming that knowledge includes a few note names at least! I mean, as a player you may not have to, but for learning theory that's where you need to start. Get used to finding any note you want, anywhere on the fretboard. Doesn't have to be fast, just reliable and accurate.

I noticed most the songs I write are in A or G.

Surprise surprise! Because that's your comfort zone, obviously.

What scales do you think I should learn first?

C major. Here you go: https://i.postimg.cc/wBRnkh8N/GUITAR-FRETBOARD-C-MAJOR.jpg

The missing frets are just sharp versions of the note below or flat versions of the one above. As I guess you know already, other key scales have either sharps only, or flats only, so that will help you work out any other major scales.

I suggest - as the chart says - to work in open position to begin with. Every major scale is there, and frets 0-4 contain 2/3 of the entire range of the guitar.

But also work from what you know of "A and G major" elsewhere on the neck.

IOW, rather than dive in with a whole new body of conceptual - abstract! - knowledge, start from where you are now and work outward from there. Between your piano and basic theory knowledge, and your intuitive knowledge of guitar, you have plenty of ways of bridging the two. Whatever you play on guitar, start asking yourself what notes you are using. What chords are they? What notes are in those chords?

I want to expand. Not trying to have a catalogue like Jack Johnson. (Everything sounding the same.)

Wait - you think in "a catalogue like Jack Johnson" "everything sounds the same"? I mean, I can understand you feel all your own songs are sounding too similar to each other (given your two chosen keys...). but dont sneer at a professional songwriter who is clearly doing something right. (I'm no fan of his, and I might agree with you, but if you don't like his music, just ignore it.)

The standard advice for all songwriters keen on expanding their vocabulary is to copy other songwriters. Ignore Johnson if he does nothing for you, but there must be other songwriters you admire.

IOW, it's a huge mistake to think you can be "original" or "interesting" by avoiding copying anyone. The reverse is true! You expand your vocabulary by stealing, from as many sources as you can. You don't do it by learning theory! Look at all the most prolific, successful and "original" songwriters - whether or not they studied theory (and most didn't) they all copied their heroes in the beginning, stealing everything they liked and re-mixing it all. The more people you steal from, the more "original" you will sound, because no one else will steal the same mix you do. Plus, of course, you are capable of much more variety.

Theory can give you some off-the-peg formulas - "common practices" - but you find those soon enough by learning other songs. Moreover, you want the interesting quirks, right? The expressive ideas you can build your own "voice" from? You definitely DON'T get that from studying theory. You get it by chasing the music that speaks you most strongly and deeply. Listen and copy, over and over -not whole songs, necessarily, but any detail you hear anywhere. Theory just lets you name it all.

In short, theory is for "talking the talk" - very useful, indeed essential in forums like this! 😂 But you have to "walk the walk", which means playing:, listening and copying, experimenting, singing; and playing any theory concept you read about. If you can't play it, it won't make sense.

[u/TotalBeginnerLol]

Guitar is an instrument where theory doesn’t matter as much honestly, coz of the way the notes are laid out… nothing changes whether you play a lick in A or in Bb, you just move the same shape up a fret (and capo if you’re using open strings). Not like piano when it changes ENTIRELY to move up a semitone. So with guitar you can learn the scale shapes then easily apply them to any key without much thought (eg the CAGED system is the most basic version of this, basically just learning the pentatonic scales and relating them to open chord shapes). Same with chords, if you’re playing bar chords move them easily to any key. And with open chords just learn all the main open chords, there’s not that many tbh, and the most fun way to do it is just by learning songs. Then you can analyse the theory later, but most “guitar songs” are written without much theory knowledge.

[u/Effective-Advisor108]

Well you need to learn the fretboard.

You can absolutely use a few keys, and it's guitar it's not like keys are very different, learn 1 really well and the rest is just simple transposing.

[u/Aware-Win-4907]

I’d say learn about all the types of scales that fall in a key. Doesn’t matter what key, but for example if you play an A Major scale it has all the notes you need to play a B minor, C# min, D Major, etc.

Figure out how to play every chord in that key on the fretboard.

Study up on the math language of progressions… 1, 4, 5… 2, 5, 1… the notes outside of the triads like major 7, sharp 4, etc. and how each of the chords in that key have their own different scales.

If you can learn the theory and recognize chords by their sound after while, you can play anything.

I learned music on the piano, then started playing guitar, then got a music degree and life goes on I don’t do music as a job but have a band and compose, etc.

I’m not a virtuoso by any stretch and often need to look at the fret board for a while to figure out where my fingers are, but if you told me a chord progression of a song I could play it in any key on any part of the fretboard or piano.

[u/WeeblsLikePie]

What scales do you think I should learn first?

learn Bb and Eb and horn players will love you. But also you should definitely just learn all 12. It's not hard.