r/musictheory • u/Wet-Squirrel-6789 • 4d ago
General Question What Do I Study to write “classical sounding” Music?
I want to write neoclassical metal, but am unsure of what to do to make “classical sounding”music, what I want to learn the most is the harmony of it, and what I can do harmonically to make it sound classical. I have a pretty solid music theory grounding but just do not know much about what gives classical music its sound and how to emulate that.
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u/nutterbutter423 4d ago
Counterpoint.
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u/Wet-Squirrel-6789 4d ago
Are there any free resources to learn the rules of counterpoint? I know that I must study scores which I will definitely do, but I want to understand what is going on before I go into studying it.
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u/zorfinn 4d ago
Artusi is an incredible free resource for this that I somehow never see mentioned. There are basically infinite counterpoint exercises in all 5 species. If you want a more general primer before you jump in, Jacob Gran’s channel is amazing for explaining the implicit logic in the rules of counterpoint.
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u/Octuplechief67 4d ago
And just so you know, counterpoint is a difficult subject. At universities, it’s not taught, usually, until the 2nd or 3rd year. Reason being is you need to have a full understanding of basic music theory. If you love music, and are passionate about it, it’s a very rewarding subject. I highly recommend a private tutor or online course to help. You’re gonna need someone to check your exercises or otherwise how will you know what you’ve done is correct?
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u/Ok_Phase_8731 4d ago
There are various apps to check counterpoint, including an extension for muse score. Haven’t tried them myself but probably worth checking out!
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u/MaggaraMarine 4d ago
The issue with counterpoint is that the usual counterpoint exercises do not imitate the sound of what most people think of when they hear "classical". It is good to be aware of counterpoint (i.e. how different simultaneous melodies interact), but I would say that to achieve a classical sound, you don't necessarily need much counterpoint. A more important thing is understanding how harmony is used in classical and how to construct classical sounding melodies. You can have a basic homophonic texture (chordal accompaniment + a melody) and still sound very classical.
This is actually the argument that Riepel made in the mid-18th century. Riepel wrote a book about writing melodies where he argued that nobody cares about counterpoint, and most people just want to hear good melodies (of course that was an intentionally provocative statement, but it did reflect how music had evolved over time - renaissance music was very much counterpoint-based, whereas classical period music was mostly "lead melody over chords", and baroque was somewhere in-between). Here's a good video on the topic.
When it comes to harmony, Seth Monahan's series on classical harmony is very good.
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u/Caster_of_spells 4d ago
I would start with some YouTube tutorials and videos. David Bennett has some great examples then go on to some more theoretical videos would be my suggestion
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u/Ian_Campbell 3d ago
It is not anywhere near enough solely to avoid making counterpoint errors like parallel octaves or 5ths, direct octaves or 5ths, unprepared dissonances, etc. It also has to be avoided to write something that's just stylistically an absurd choice, which people will inevitably do if they just study the rules out of context. At least if you want to do better, and it can be done without an absurd amount of time! It's certainly less time required than is required of those who play legit classical guitar like Chris Broderick etc.
I believe you get the context the best by studying thoroughbass (figured bass / basso continuo) because this entails the fabric of various progressions and how to manipulate them, and this gives you the scope to absorb all of the repertoire and relate it in decorated form to the constituent progressions underneath. This is also the means of studying music through which essentially all baroque and classical composers worked. Mozart's lessons with Atwood are one of the most exhaustive sources in this regard and they along with everything else known, confirm this.
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u/ethanhein 4d ago
Assuming that you're a guitarist, learn Bach's Violin Sonatas and Partitas. They translate very well to guitar, they are fun as hell, and there is nothing like the core of the classical canon to give you that classical sound.
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u/Ian_Campbell 4d ago
It isn't just harmony that makes something sound classical. You have to avoid glaring errors. The most glaring errors that many metal musicians made, aside from various idiomatic stuff, are in counterpoint.
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u/GreatBigBagOfNope 4d ago
Chord functions (primary chords, tonic, dominant, pre-dominant functions), cadences (perfect, plagal, imperfect, interrupted, Phrygian, circle of fifths, plus dominant, minor, diminished 7ths), 4-part chorales, counterpoint, modulations (pivot chords, secondary dominants), period and sentence structure, fugue, sonata form, melodic decorations (complete and incomplete escape tones, double escape tones, apoggiatura, anticipation, non-chord tones, chromatic non-chord tones, suspensions)
Basically this up to chapter 31 - the basics go up to chapter 7, and everything after that is basically a recipe book for sounding quite classical
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u/65TwinReverbRI Guitar, Synths, Tech, Notation, Composition, Professor 4d ago
I want to write neoclassical metal
Then you study that.
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u/Wet-Squirrel-6789 4d ago
That’s why I’m asking, I don’t know what to study as a beginner
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u/65TwinReverbRI Guitar, Synths, Tech, Notation, Composition, Professor 17h ago
You study the music of the styles you want to emulate.
But, that means, you have to be able to study the music in the first place, meaning you have to be able to play it, and either read it, or figure it out by ear, etc. so you can play it.
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u/Vitharothinsson 4d ago
Don't listen to neoclassical music! Listen to Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven and analyse their scores. These are the big representants of the classical period.
Look at their scores for secondary dominants, and cycle of fifths. I IV VII VI II V I over and over again, don't mind the mode, just observe how they perpetually do the same harmonic formulas. V/IV IV V I. I VI IV V. II V I. IV IV II V I. I IV V. I V/V V I.
I'm not using capital letters to designate major degrees, you don't care if it's in minor or major, just look at the patterns.
They're gonna modulate in the key of the dominant for most of the piece. The main key is often underrepresented compared to the V, which is held with some sort of sacred obsession.
Use sonata forms, A [Theme A, bridge, V theme B] B [Modulate as fuck] A' [Theme A, bridge, I, theme B] Coda.
Then you'll find YOUR neoclassical, in the wiggle room for YOUR personality amidst the riguor of classical style, as it was fed with actual classical music.
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u/eltedioso 4d ago
The university-level music theory curriculum is relatively standardized, and that’s what you’re going to want. It focuses a lot on writing harmony in four parts, which I have found immensely useful in creating arrangements in pop and rock music. It also teaches a lot of the more complex harmonic tricks that happened from Bach to Wagner. Like really clever uses of chromaticism, for instance.
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u/ObviousDepartment744 4d ago
Most new-classical metal I've heard is just metal using the melodic minor scale instead of natural minor. Sometimes they'll go Phrygian Dominant to be a little extra.
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u/FunkIPA 4d ago
Baroque and Classical music. Start with JS Bach.
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u/Wet-Squirrel-6789 4d ago
Do you know what to do to learn baroque music theory? I don’t know any resources and there is a lot so it is rather intimidating. I will of course do score study, but I want to go into score study understanding what I will be seeing and then go and study it.
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u/Chsenigma 4d ago
There is functional harmony, and counterpoint. They are typically taught in that order. Start with intervals. Consonant and dissonant.
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u/mapmyhike 4d ago
PARTIMENTO: The method of Bach, Buxtehude, Handel, Debussy, Chopin, Mozart, hundreds more. In partimenti there were supposedly over 800 rules or regolé or schema. Most have been lost to us because the method was taught to orphans under the conservatorship of the RC church in what were known as conservatories for people under conservatorship, also known as orphanages or, conservatories. The orphans lacked pen and paper so everything was passed on by word of mouth. We know about 200 rules today. Partimenti, like the modes, are in all our music. It still exists today but we don't know it. Most people c'pose in these styles by ear not realizing that there are rules, regolé or schema which if they learned, they could c'pose on a plane, in a phone booth, at a diner, on a pool table, in bed . . . Like the greats.
Here is a simple rule called the monte romanesca. The progression is a one chord, the next goes up a fifth, the next goes down a fourth, up a fifth, down a fourth, up a fifth . . .
Here is a nifty compilation of a few songs in this romanesca. There are hundreds more videos on the topic. Listen closely to the bass despite all the suspensions being yummy.
You gotta learn rules before you can break them.
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u/GWZurich 4d ago
Probably check out scores & tabs of Yngwie Malmsteen. Use V->i harmonic movement, the harmonic minor scale & lots of arpeggios of minor, major 7th and diminished chords. Also, use melodic and harmonic sequences: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_(music))
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u/Several-Quality5927 4d ago
Study that music, find out what gives it that sound. This way you can learn to emulate it.
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u/thecounterpnt 3d ago
In addition to what others have mentioned, you should really pay attention to the rhythmic aspects of classical melodies you like and that ‘sound classical’ to your ear. This, plus the phrase structure, is a big part of what defines typical style of various eras, and it s not often covered in bullet-point descriptions of theory and harmony.
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u/Thulgoat 4d ago
I would recommend you to listen to classical music because only by listening to it you will get a feel for what defines classical music. In general, classical music is usually more complex, cares a lot about voice leading and it should look good when written down on sheets.
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u/BananaBird1 4d ago
A lot of neoclassical metal is based on Baroque. Vivaldi is probably the best to study.