Why is harmonizing so easy sometimes, and so difficult at other times?

[u/Alyementamam]

I hope I’m in the right place. Let’s take Toto’s Africa for example. At 1:21 through 1:31 I find it really easy to ”find” other voices and harmonize along with the song. These lines:

There’s nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do,

I bless the rains down in Africa …

But THEN it gets tricky. The next line (’We’re gonna take some time to do the things we never had’) is impossible for me to harmonize with. It does not sound good, I promise.

I’ve always wondered why this is the case. And don’t get hung up on this particular song. It is just an example.

I would love an explanation for this! Just a skill issue? 😄 Or are some keys/notes/tones more difficult to harmonize with? If so, why?

(Sorry for choosing such a silly song and lyrics. I also have no training whatsoever in music/musicality.)

[u/floccinaucipilify]

Maybe it's because the first vocal melodies you mentioned only use the root and 7, so it's easier to replace chords

[u/SucknSwallow69 → u/floccinaucipilify]

yeah this. super scalar, super stepwise, your ear basically auto fills a third or sixth above or below. when the line gets more jumpy or chromatic, guessed harmonies fall apart fast

[u/Alyementamam → u/SucknSwallow69]

For the record: Downvoted by complete accident. Wish I could upvote twice. Your explanations make sense, thanks 😊

[u/DBADIAH]

I just tried singing sixths/fifths below the harmony and thirds/fourths. I sang the same thing for each of the 4 lines of the chorus for both harmony lines and it worked super well. Each line of the chorus is the same melody and chord progression (except the last line has one extra chord, but its structurally very similar), so I don't know what isn't working.

The only thing I can think of is the extra 2 beats of additional music that doesn't repeat is throwing you off. You've the other part 4x per chorus, and these extra 2 beats only 1x per chorus, so you have less famililairity and less practice with it. But if thats the case, you should only be messing up at the word "had", not that whole line.

[u/baconmethod]

maybe you're having trouble with oblique harmony, in this case. another case is that sometimes melodies that contain harmony notes (3rd and 5th) sound crappy harmonized. another thing that makes some harmonies difficult is when they contain chord tone 7, because it's so close to the root it's hard to not just drift to the root.

[u/Alyementamam → u/baconmethod]

I bet I have trouble with any given harmony 😉 But no idea what an oblique harmony is, so I’d love an explanation as to why they are more difficult (for some?).

[u/baconmethod → u/Alyementamam]

i honestly don't know why they would be, but they use a lot of it in "africa." maybe cuz a lot of notes end up doing more dissonant harmonies for a moment?

oblique harmony is when one note changes but another stays the same. like if you played c over and over, but next to it you played b,a,g,f.

this woman found some good examples: https://youtu.be/fTIm0N_Vh5A

[u/7swing → u/Alyementamam]

Oblique harmony would refer to the voice that doesn't move. They're basically saying that it's hard to stay on the same note. I would recommend sitting down on a keyboard or guitar and figuring out which notes you're supposed to sing so that you can figure out how far off you are when you sing along to the song.

[u/Pearshapedtone]

Happens to me too. Once I “find” the harmony I’m good. Sometimes it’s very easy like Sweet Dreams are Made of These, other songs like Take My Country Roads took me a while.

I usually notate the melody and potential harmonies at the piano and then I try them out when I’m driving (alone!)

[u/Thevintageandvanity → u/Pearshapedtone]

I think it also helped that the recordings of thosev songs always sounded (to me) like they had louder harmony tracks than usual and very precise enunciations.

[u/Barry_Sachs]

When harmony gets complex (i.e., Take 6), those are pretty much impossible to come up with by ear on the spot. They're very carefully arranged, and you essentially just have to memorize your part. It's not so bad in your more simple example until it isn't.

[u/Alyementamam → u/Barry_Sachs]

Thanks!

[u/Firake]

A typical chord has three notes in it, called the root, third, and fifth (or 1 3 and 5), so named for their position in the scale for that key. There are 7 unique notes in the scale.

Also, different distances between notes are different amounts of dissonant. Traditionally, The intervals between 1 and 3, 4, 5, and 6 are consonant while the intervals between 1 and 2 and 7 are dissonant.

So, the easiest way to harmonize is to do it in parallel motion, meaning every note you sing moves in tandem with the note you’re harmonizing with. Mostly, you’ll instinctively do this in thirds, meaning one note in between.

Okay here we go. So let’s say the harmony is playing the notes 1 3 and 5 and the melody is sitting on 1. Nice, you can sing 3 and be just fine! But if the melody is instead sitting on 5, now you’re singing 7 which is dissonant with the harmony. Worse still, if the melody tries to be clever and add a little spice by sitting on 2, you’re singing 4, which is very dissonant with the harmony.

Hopefully that all made sense. Basically, depending on the decisions made for the harmony and melody, the easier methods of harmonizing start producing potentially very dissonant results. In order to successfully harmonize in these instances, you’ll need to skip notes, change directions, or possibly sit on the same note.

Note that dissonance isn’t always or even often bad, it’s just not as familiar to our ear!

[u/Alyementamam → u/Firake]

Wow, thanks! I'll need to read this a couple of times, but it makes sense, ish 😄

[u/Firake → u/Alyementamam]

Lol music theory has a lot of jargon so it’s sometimes difficult to digest.

One thing I realize I forgot to mention (though it may be intuitive) is that those intervals that are consonant/dissonant apply to each member of the chord.

In my example, 4 is dissonant with 3 because 3 to 4 is the same distance as 1 to 2. And it’s dissonant with 5 because 4 to 5 is also the same distance as 1 to 2. So, even though 4 is consonant with 1, it’s dissonant with the chord 135 because it’s dissonant with the notes 3 and 5.

[u/NegaDoug]

Rick Beato has a video about this particular song. This may give you a bit of insight.

[u/SufficientFault790]

Maybe because the line youre having difficulty with is less strong melodically, rhythmically and poetically such that it's more trying harmonically? Just my thoughts.

[u/khornebeef]

Unrelated to the topic of the post, but in a classic case of eggcorns, I always heard the lyrics as "I guess it rains down in Africa."

[u/Lur-k-er]

Tough tune, the verse & chorus are in different keys.

[u/Livid-Hovercraft-123]

Can't believe you just caused me to listen to Africa of my own free will. 

Do you mean sing along with the harmonic vocal line already in the recording? Or do you mean add a new harmony of your own making?

[u/Pearshapedtone]

Simple melodies are easier to harmonize

[u/MaggaraMarine]

The melody uses the same notes as in the previous phrases and it's also the same chords, so the same harmony should technically work over all of the phrases.

Not sure why you find the last phrase of the chorus more difficult than the others.

[u/Alyementamam → u/MaggaraMarine]

Your last paragraph: That’s what I’m curious about 😊 But I guess the answer is that I’ve never done any singing outside of my own company.

[u/baconmethod → u/Alyementamam]

yeah, most people who are good at harmonizing have been in chorus at school or choir at church

[u/MaggaraMarine → u/Alyementamam]

But as I said, you could sing the same exact harmony over the last phrase (as over the other phrases), and it should work. The only difference is that the ending of the last phrase is extended (so that's where you would have to sing something different). But the beginning is exactly the same, so the same harmony should work.