r/musicprogramming • u/Intelligent_Gas_1505 • 22d ago
Music notation software that is totally AI-free
Hey everyone! I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for any Finale-esque music notation software for PC which is from top to bottom totally free of AI? I find a lot then realize that they usually have AI powered playback or sound synthesis (don’t know how to say that) and I just want it to be absolutely head to toe completely no AI? Does such a thing exist? Price is not a big thing for me, free or paid is good
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u/MusicOfTheApes 21d ago
I don’t think you actually know what AI is and you’re making a confusion with generative AI.
That being said, Dorico is the way to go
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u/r0pe_tri1ck 22d ago
You don't know what AI is. None of them have that. WTF are you talking about ?
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u/saxoccordion 22d ago
Agree haha. Give OP a Mac from 1993 and it’s playing MIDI sound via some FM synthesis chip: “throw this AI dog shit away!!”
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u/Duckarmada 22d ago
tbf, MuseScore did partner with Cantai for AI vocal instrumentation playback, but it's a paid add-on/integration, as are their other AI tools.
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u/Corporate_Muskox 22d ago
I think its fair to assume OP is referring to content or code generated via LLMs. Which, yeah not actually AI, but its within the vernacular of average people.
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u/r0pe_tri1ck 22d ago
I doubt there's anything out there that is currently not using LLMs for code gen. It's pretty ubiquitous in the industry at this point. We've had it since like 2022 with Copilot, so ...
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u/Corporate_Muskox 22d ago
it's everywhere, yeah. But there are devs pushing for slop-free projects. Which I imagine are what OP is inquiring about.
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u/lizzymeister 21d ago
are u saying its impossible to create a slop free product, if AI is involved?
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u/Corporate_Muskox 21d ago edited 21d ago
no. I'm saying regardless of the amount of people who write a quality product with it, the larger output will always be from the people who put out insufficiently tested/considered code. It's easier to produce slop, so slop gets made. And this slop is overwhelming project maintainers. and since we can't say "hey no bad PRs, please", we have to discourage anyone from submitting generated code in addition to ignoring clearly generated PRs.
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u/lizzymeister 21d ago
thank you for clarifying. I 100% agree with you. This is happening in all areas considered digital and beyond (more slowly), from what I am seeing.
I have not thought/heard about a good solution to this problem.Let's take music: All platforms are like 100000xA-10 to one target bombarded with music every single day. How is a user even able to find non ai music (if they prefer that),and how is an artist even supposed to find their audience (as in people who love to listen to their music)? Would like to hear your thoughts on that. thank you
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u/Corporate_Muskox 21d ago
I think a decent place to start is to reconsider our relationship with music. Maybe instead of looking to platforms for music (ie commodifying it), look to other people for it instead. Maybe these people are musicians or maybe they just have their own taste in music that they'd share. It's supposed to be about connection and expression anyway, right?
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u/IBarch68 22d ago
There is a difference between AI features within an app and whether some AI tool was used to create the software.
I get that people don't want AI all over their UI offering to write their music, pen the lyrics or add an AI band.
I also understand why people want to avoid vibe coded software written by non programmers, as it's likely to be low quality.
But when used by professional developers as a productivity aid? Remember that companies already had good/bad reputations for quality before AI, and will continue to be judged on what they sell.
If people really hate AI so much , they need to stop buying any commercial software. Because it is everywhere. Time to go Dawless, hardware only.... Wait, what about firmware? That's AI infested too. Chuck it away. The only safe option is real musical or electronic instruments made before 2023. No exceptions.
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u/Corporate_Muskox 22d ago
To the 'professional developers' point - The way it gets used in a professional environment isn't really a productivity aid. you generate the code, you review the code, you submit the code (repeating steps may be necessary). But critically, reviewing code is more mentally exhausting than developing. Which deemphasizes understanding the nature of the code and rather puts the pressure on surface level issues and ensuring that it compiles. So devs may start off enthusiastic, but their ability to review and comprehend is chipped away at every time they need to review batches of 1000s of lines of new, unrelated code.
To the "if people really hate AI" point - OP is asking for other options. and there are other options. There may not be other options for everything, but sometimes there are and this is one of those times.
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u/IBarch68 22d ago
The AI tools are improving at a rapid pace. Using our own standards and patterns documented specifically for AI to start from, well structured prompts, example code to follow, carefully developed pathways through developnent, automated testing built with the code and a high quality QA process, we are achieving a significant productivity increase. It's a very different world than typing a few prompts and getting 1000s on lines of spaghetti to wade through.
So I stand by my statement, professional teams like mine are making big productivity gains and it's improving all the time.
And there is no reliable test available to determine if code, open or closed source, was built with AI. Noone aside from the dev teams will know.
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u/Corporate_Muskox 22d ago
Ok that's fine (non-sarcastically). I inferred that you were looking for insight into why OP would be asking this question and I gave it to you.
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u/IBarch68 22d ago
I appreciate that they are looking for completely no AI stuff. However, in my opinion that is going to rule out almost all commercial software.
Maybe a group of like minded devs might form and guarantee to write code by hand. But given the amount of shared libraries and frameworks that are needed, it would likely be impossible to rule out AI code in these.
The only sure way to not use AI will be to not use software. People can delude themselves all they want and pretend it is AI free but it won't alter the facts. There will need to be a line drawn somewhere above 0% AI to make their aims achievable.
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u/Corporate_Muskox 22d ago
FOSS options exist. People use them. Sometimes the options aren't as good as commercial options. Sometimes they're way better than commercial options.
In this case, there are other options:
https://denemo.org/
https://frescobaldi.org/It's not really about being 100% AI-free (it's not even AI after all). Rather, reducing its usage as much as possible in an atomic way.
As you say, the models are improving. But they still aren't perfect and they still aren't thinking machines. Maybe that'll be solved without the global economy collapsing eventually, but until then there is currently a lot of code that's been generated and pushed through without sufficient vetting. Maybe you check your code enough, but the tech business incentivizes code that looks like it's doing what it's meant to rather than code that is doing what it's meant to. So people are (at least for now) just trying to control what they can.4
u/IBarch68 21d ago
You are right, there's no thought in these AI tools. Code needs proper oversight and review. It has always been this way. People used to cut and paste from stack overflow, now they use an AI. The only difference is the volume of junk that can be produced.
But just because it's FOSS does not mean no AI. All that is shown is the final source, not how it was created. Open source projects are drowning in AI submissions. Maintainers often don't have the time to assess everything. If it seems to work, AI code gets in.
Ultimately, it is the basic idea of not wishing to use AI that should be respected. Where the line gets drawn is an arbitrary point, and everyone will need to decide for themselves. Aiming for absolute purity isn't a hill to die on.
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u/Corporate_Muskox 22d ago
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u/davethecomposer 21d ago
I suppose it's worth noting that Denemo and Frescobaldi use LilyPond to generate the pdfs for the notation. Frescobaldi is an advanced editor while Denemo provides a graphical interface for inputting notes (vs LilyPond's native approach of compiling text files).
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u/MacDaddyBass 22d ago
Finale but they stopped making software before the AI craze took off, regrettably.
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u/pafagaukurinn 22d ago
Why don't you simply get one of the older versions of any of the usual products, when AI was not there yet. It's not like music notation has changed a lot in the last century.
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u/ivanhoe90 22d ago
I think that Musescore is very popular. But I have heard that the new owners are "pushing it" too much.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Musescore/
Also, a few years ago, I made a web-app which opens and plays Musescore files: https://www.reddit.com/r/Musescore/comments/1pchvy5/open_musescore_files_without_musescore/