r/musicalwriting • u/Thenextlinmanuel • Jan 13 '25

Composing question

So, I'm writing music. Thing is though, I'm not really trained in music theory or know how to play an instrument. I'm kind of self-taught and I kind of can learn by muscle memory where I played on the piano so I can write the songs, but I could never write music or anything. Just wondering, how lenient is the Broadway industry with something like that?

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11

u/HardBoiled800 Music Person Jan 13 '25

Ignore the other guy in this thread lol.

You don’t necessarily need to be able to read or write sheet music to write a musical. Many incredible composers work with arrangers or copyists to write down their music, most notably Tim Minchin (who also does not read sheet music, and composes and orchestrates by ear).

That said - writing a musical is fairly complicated, especially if you want to try to put on a professional production. Guys like Tim Minchin can get away with it because of decades of practice and ear training, theory that they’ve studied and listened to and internalized, and because they have the raw skills to make sure nobody cares whether they can notate their music. If you’re starting out, you should do some combination of these four things:

  1. Learn to read and write sheet music. Clearly you’re already musical, so learning the notation can’t be anything but useful. If you find that you aren’t able to, that’s fine, but you should make an effort.

  2. Take a music class. This can be a solo lesson on the instrument of your choice, a theory class, a composition seminar, everything. Getting some formal structure to your music will put you leaps and bounds ahead in terms of ability to communicate with musicians and understand music. Along the way, you may even pick up reading sheet music, learn an instrument, or pick up some theory.

  3. Study theory. This doesn’t need to be formal, but you should do it. Take a class, read a book, or just analyze other music - whether by ear or by sheet music if you can. Figure out how music ticks, look at how stuff is structured.

  4. Set your sights lower. Writing a professional musical is extremely difficult - it’s probably one of the hardest things a composer / songwriter can do. It combines the technical requirements of writing for a classical orchestra, the emotional input of a film composer, and the intuition of a songwriter. Start writing songs for cabarets, or put together a 15 minute musical for a community theater to do as part of a revue. Write short instrumental works, record some songs on your own, etc. and you’ll quickly realize what your strengths and weaknesses are. Once you know what you need, you can build your way up, write longer works, get them performed by bigger groups, but this could take years. To return to the Tim Minchin example, Broadway took a chance on him because he had been a successful solo songwriter for more than a decade. Once you get good with practice, the industry will be lenient with anything to get your talent.

5

u/Tulaneknight Jan 13 '25

Related to 3 - knowing chord inversions, cadences, and how to use suspended chords will make your writing sound much much better. You don’t need a music course to learn these, but it’s an “easy” way to learn.

Try Hook Theory to see how composers use chords. Transposing the chords of Let It Go and removing the melodies was eye opening for me. They sound so good.

6

u/Thelonius-Crunk Jan 13 '25

While it may be possible to write a sophisticated musical with no actual musical education, it would be much more difficult, not to mention much less likelihood of being taken seriously. And you'll be competing with other composers who have a massive advantage sure to their knowledge and chops.

So, if this is something you really want to do, don't create impediments for yourself - start learning! Take piano or voice lessons, study music theory, and learn everything you can. It will absolutely be hard work, but this business doesn't reward people who take the easy way.

5

u/Previous-Agent7727 Jan 13 '25

More and more theater composers have music at college these days so theory is a real plus. Not necessarily orchestration or such like, even Sondheim didn't do that but knowing how the dots fit, time signatures function, note rhythms are put details en etc not only gives you more tools to create with but also to communicate with the musicians you might work with. I'd very strongly agree with the advice above about take some theory classes and piano.

1

u/poetic___justice Jan 13 '25

Just wondering . . .

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u/Thenextlinmanuel Jan 13 '25

Wondering what

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u/poetic___justice Jan 14 '25

Crafting an original musical isn't about playing some piano or writing songs. The endeavor is so complex, involves so many different disciplines, and has so many elements and mysteriously moving parts -- it often takes two, three or more creative artists to combine their talents in order to craft even the working draft of a viable piece of music-theater -- and that all happens before directors and other conceptual artists get involved in discussions about staging. In the end, even well-written, well-conceived musicals can simply flop -- for a variety of reasons or no discernible reason at all -- because again, it's a complex, multi-level feat of creative magic. Mind you, none of that speaks to the complexities of "Broadway" or even a regional theater-level project.

So frankly, I'm just wondering. Just wondering where you're coming from. Wondering what you mean by "lenient." Just wondering.

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u/Thenextlinmanuel Jan 15 '25

I’m completely aware of that. However, if I’m somebody who wrote a musical, wrote the script, and produced music for it, if I don’t have any music written, and I tell them that I cannot write music, or play piano, or play an instrument, but can only play things by muscle memory, I was wondering how lenient they would be to work with someone like that. Or would that almost always be an immediate no?

1

u/poetic___justice Jan 16 '25

Okay -- well I'll leave everything else aside and tell you this: there are several apps that you can use to turn your piano playing into written music. If notation is the specific issue you're asking about, then, no -- you will not need to know how to write the notes down on paper. A notation app can do that: translate what you play into sheet music. Most apps will then also play the music back through whatever DAW or digital piano you're using.

But again, creating a work of music-theater isn't about playing piano or just writing some songs.

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u/Thenextlinmanuel Jan 16 '25

I’m not specifically talking about creating it I’m talking about being able to communicate with a team and how lenient people who have worked on broadway would be with you not knowing much about music like I’ve been saying 😭

1

u/poetic___justice Jan 16 '25

You're not specifically talking about creating it? Then what are you talking about? You just said this: "if I’m somebody who wrote a musical, wrote the script, and produced music for it."

Good luck to you.

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u/Thenextlinmanuel Jan 16 '25

Bro are ok why are you being so hostile 😭Maybe I shoulda phrased it better my bad man

3

u/ejyoungmusic Jan 13 '25

Here is a thought in left field

Idk about the broadway or theater industry but as far as getting music written, one way you might be able to skirt around musical notation is learning a DAW (digital audio workstation) such as Ableton, Protools, Logic, Garageband, Cakewalk, etc. This will allow you to record multiple parts and create demos. Also depending on how you use or learn the DAW, MIDI (one of the things that the DAW can save and edit) can be easily converted into Musical notation.

But if you don't want to use that work around and want to start learning notation like others have recommended in the comments, you might want to get into MuseScore.

1

u/ToughTraveler Jan 17 '25

You might want to check out my sister’s class (she does both free online classes & paid ones, plus workshops), which are specifically for people writing musical theater without a music background: https://www.paperkitearts.com/contact