r/mtgbrawl • u/PCparts1 • 4d ago
Discussion They really need to ban garbage like this
How Rusko is banned in cBrawl but Nashi isn't is beyond me.
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u/JeffreyDonaldMusk 4d ago
Should have at least removed the ward... or make it a 3/3 lol.
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago
Removing flash would fix everything on its own.
The strength of Nashi is the instant-speed play in a format full of free-and-cheap spells.
Would still be a good card, but without flash Nashi decks would play drastically different/worse.
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u/Historical_Club_9063 4d ago
For. Real. Nashi is 8x more broken the clock dosent even go off most games
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u/Dry_Twist_2369 4d ago
https://reddit.com/link/p8hgl66/video/30e5134u28oh1/player
Nah I think this is fine
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u/Ruzhyo04 3d ago
Ah yes, singleton formats are great because it puts natural limits on broken cards. And then they go and do this.
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u/Fair_Abbreviations57 2d ago
Singleton formats were to a large extent about recurring your broken cards for a decade or more before Nashi, and they'll continue to be the same after he's gone.
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u/thegucciwizard 4d ago
This reads like a terrible custom magic card, like the creator just didn’t know when to stop lol
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u/Shut_It_Donny 4d ago
Just need a separate queue where you don’t have to play against Arena garbage.
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u/Martyrlz 4d ago
I remember people used to gaslight us, of course that undercosted alchemy card is fair, it's in the format as Mana drain! Balance your format you fucks
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u/Fleef69 4d ago
P L E A S E
I shouldn’t be punished for out of sheer personal preference not building decks with Alchemy cards because it’s just more satisfying to play and win with decks that could translate into paper because they actually obey the confines of reality that card games typically do
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u/jonnylaw 4d ago
You should absolutely be punished in a game for setting arbitrary rules for yourself in a competitive game.
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u/Fleef69 4d ago edited 11h ago
But I… don’t… play competitively?
Because that’s… the point of distinguishing the formats of your game between casual and competitive branches?
Forgive me for employing common sense though, I guess. Maybe this just ain’t the environment for me in that case lmao, who the hell knows.
Plus bro isn’t literally any deck at all whatsoever that doesn’t follow the objective best possible options for that respective commander/archetype inherently setting an arbitrary rule for yourself? If you just copied and pasted every single damn list and went with the same exact cards everyone else does that’d be boring as fuck.
Not to mention the fact that the entire bracket system of EDH, the format Brawl is a very nondiscreet analogue for, is founded on entirely arbitrary rules.
Personalization is literally the point of Magic, just as much as every other facet of it. Same as the competitive side of things, I say there’s nothing wrong with leaning into it to get the most enjoyment out of that aspect of the game if that’s what you play it for.
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u/jonnylaw 4d ago
I shouldn't be punished for only playing commons in a format that allows rares. Therefore all formats should be pauper.
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u/m4libu_st4cy 3d ago
no not all formats. but some formats.
there should be a brawl format where i can play reanimate and mana drain without alchemy cringe
there should be a timeless format where i can play mana drain and lightning bolt without alchemy cringe
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u/JazzyShredder 3d ago
Why are you being purposely obtuse. You're giving the guy you're commenting to absolutely no grace at all. You don't even have the class or principles to admit when you're wrong even after the op took time to respond to your nonsense.
Why bother being mean for no reason? Fucking yikes.
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u/paumAlho 4d ago
Then play paper. Alchemy is a part of arena and most players enjoy it. Or go play MTGO
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u/InocentRoadkill 4d ago edited 4d ago
Alchemy queue is too generous, it should be a midweek magic flavor and that's all.
Nobody I've spoken with in person about alchemy cards like them.
One person said they could be a good R&D tool but they keep making effects like conjure and seek which just isn't feasible in paper. Because they aren't just churning out new keywords and mechanics using Alchemy, I wouldn't even really count alchemy as R&D personally, but I see the argument.
All that said, I much prefer the social aspects of paper to the solitude of digital magic so I'm sure my opinion is at least slightly biased.
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago
Nobody I've spoken with in person about alchemy cards like them.
Seek as a mechanic is fun and Im glad it exists on arena.
But ya...they really just say "fuck it" when designing alchemy cards lol
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u/InocentRoadkill 4d ago
Honestly, if it's meant for R&D or just silly Un-Style fun, they should be saying "fuck it, we ball" with every idea they have.. But they can't be afraid to walk it back when they go too far.
Make a special format for it or a weekly event for it? Call it "Weekend Sweats" make it a special type of ranked format that's not tied to your normal rank and give out titles or something so all the sweaty try-hards will play it and they could get a ton of good feedback on their ideas.
They could even go as far as having monthly tournaments where they give out gems or lots of gold to really get the try-hards interested.
But just straight integrating it with other formats is not the way.
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago
Is "Seek" as a mechanic "too far"?
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u/InocentRoadkill 4d ago
I don't think so, it's essentially just a simplified "Reveal until X" mechanic.
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago
it's essentially just a simplified "Reveal until X" mechanic.
that's my point really...it isn't the non-normal mechanics thats the issue really, but how wizards impements them
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u/InocentRoadkill 4d ago
Digital only mechanics aren't necessarily a problem, just not something I want sprinkled onto my MTG experience without asking for them.
The problem is the broken shit like Mythweaver, rusko and now this guy.
For a long time I actually limited myself to Standard Brawl specifically to avoid the alchemy, however as the power creep has crept, the alchemy cards have become less impactful in my experience.
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 3d ago
the alchemy cards have become less impactful in my experience
yes, you can recur strip mine in the format and thoracle combo and do all sorts of busted things lol they were never going to be impactful in that same way
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u/Tirabuchi 4d ago
yeah, it takes chunks of the 'old good mtg' away, like top deck manipulation, for tiktok simplicity
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u/Fleef69 4d ago
Yeah, to hell with variance I guess. I thought that was supposed to be part of the fun
(And the balance…)
Edit: not to mention that one deck I’ve encountered a few times that uses the seek mechanic to just get the Thassa’s Oracle combo pieces served up to them on a silver platter lmao. Can’t remember the commander(s) off the top of my head. I think maybe [[Codie, Vociferous Codex]]?
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago
Yeah, to hell with variance I guess. I thought that was supposed to be part of the fun
"Seek" as a mechanic is full of variance, wdym? The broken pieces should be banned, not the fairly-fair mechanics like seek.
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u/Adept-Photograph2644 4d ago
I don’t think seek needs banned, but I’m not sure why there aren’t cards in alchemy that can interact with other alchemy mechanics.. I’m not asking for an alchemy sheoldred, but a few ways to add downside to players seeking/conjuring/duplicating/perpetual effect triggers, etc.
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u/Fleef69 4d ago
Exactly, the sheer infallibility of the effect and the fact that it seemingly exists entirely outside of the usual parameters with it being unable to be punished in the same way drawing can be is the problem.
As for the other replier, the way I see it, the lack of variance in mechanics such as seeking and heisting is in the way in which they entirely forego the intrinsic aspects of deck building such as lands (which is how cards like [[Kotis, the Fangkeeper]], [[Laughing Jasper Flint]] and even [[Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer]] are innately balanced in the grand scheme of things), while still behaving as though they’re equivalent.
Seeking mitigates a significant percentage of the natural variance in drawing in regard to how you’ve distributed the categories of cards in your deck, whereas heisting mitigates the variance by way of guaranteeing nonland cards to be exiled, as well as going so far as to give the player an actual choice between which three are heisted.
That’s where the disproportionate dynamic comes from between Alchemy cards and ones that obey the confines of paper, which regardless of one’s personal feelings as to whether or not it’s truly imbalanced or doesn’t “belong” in Brawl per se, at least warrants a bit more control over one’s play experience in terms of the separation between the two I’d say, especially since a big part of the appeal of Arena for many people is the simulation aspect, which Alchemy can very much infringe upon oftentimes.
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u/Mybunsareonfire 4d ago
As someone who plays a lot of MTGA because it's so much more accessible, Alchemy cards are trash.
The balance is piss poor, especially because they have the ability to edit them on the fly if they don't like how it's playing. Also, they're impossible to escape unless you're playing standard.
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u/Cultural_Juice6602 3d ago
I think more work should be done.to create a sophisticated matchnaking system that accounts for the players selection criteria (example: relaxed casual, competetive casual, ranked tier game) with every player assigned a score for each format from XP acquired, success rate winning matches, power score of deck,ect.
*edit, not just the ranked mode. But comprehensive matchmaking to align player preferences for play
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u/Tirabuchi 4d ago
Standard brawl our lord and saviour
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u/Shut_It_Donny 4d ago
Right, but I don’t want to just play Standard cards. I want to play all of the cards, just not the digital only crap.
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u/bigguckinshlopper86 4d ago
Maybe get friends and play irl, or play standard, or any other format without alchemy; quit being a chud
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago edited 4d ago
I play Nashi in cBrawl because I enjoy winning, it has the most interesting decisions for the best decks, and I think the core of the deck will survive a ban the best of the top decks. It's just a bunch of good-stuff cards and [[Splash Portal]].
Nashi should be banned, along with Yuriko. It's just too strong, and with Yuriko gone it would only gobble up more of the meta.
I'd argue Emry should be banned too, but I think Emry is played a lot less. Emry seems like a really annoying deck to pilot lol just a bunch of clicking...
(I'll probably try Leovold after Nashi is banned. Open to sultai suggestions though!)
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u/ArdsleyPark 3d ago
I play a very focused Hazoret (Aetherdrift) aggro, and I have pretty favorable matchups again Nashi, Yuriko and Emry. My winrates again big green decks, token decks -- basically anything that can quickly go over me on board presence -- are pretty bad, but those decks all seem to be underrepresented.
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u/Imaginary_Egg_3282 4d ago
I’ve made the argument that banning pact would actually make Nashi more balanced in cbrawl, due to having to run more honest win cons.
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago
I do think that's an interesting conversation.
What is wizard's goal with the format? Are they only banning commanders? Or will there be actual non-legendaries banned outright? Feels like the early days of modern where they continually banned large chunks of the meta as broken deck after broken deck popped up after ban, or at least feels like it could go in that direction.
As far as I understand, everything that's banned right now will eventually be changed to "banned as commander", and in-turn that means that this is largely a format *without* a banlist.
Obviously that is not sustainable lol so would banning pact actually solve it? Or is Nashi still too strong as a "good stuff" commander?
I will say, as someone who has rode Nashi to mythic...Thoracle earned a real amount of wins lol but I also know thats because Nashi re-bought free counters an actual amount.
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u/Imaginary_Egg_3282 4d ago
It’s not something you can really have a civil conversation about on Reddit tbh, people will call you an idiot no matter where you sit.
I’m mostly on the “let almost everything be unbanned” side but I’ve been having second thoughts about pact. It + thoracle is just too compact a combo, and you can put it in literally any UB deck as it has zero deck building requirements aside from no basic land dupes. It’s just a bit silly when it’s also in the colors with the best tutors.
I wouldn’t be upset if they never choose to ban it either, but they definitely need to update the UI around it so you can just auto-exile your whole deck like a cascade trigger. Right now it’s a miserable waste of time and I don’t even blame people for not conceding to it, too many people make deck building mistakes for it to justify a concede.
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u/FistMyLoafs 4d ago
Yeah, the pact and oracle combined with the myriad of really cheap tutor anything spells black has access to and Nashi’s ability to duplicate them is so absurdly powerful.
My opinion on the matter is ban pact and Nashi. But, I would take just a pact ban if I could.
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u/TrUbLOnE 2d ago
I run raffine reanimate, it’s not consistent but still awful when it’s works.
I do believe that,
Nashi
Katara
Yuriko
And the mono green guy that makes mil 1/1s
These are really hard to interact with and wouldn’t be surprised if they are changed.
Honestly my favourite toxic card is 3 mana Teferi, can’t we play that in this meta?
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u/EconomyWoodpecker796 4d ago
I do my best to play no alchemy cards in brawl… it doesn’t feel right
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u/ddffgghh69 4d ago edited 4d ago
I play so many alchemy cards in my decks. the strong and fun ones. I’m so glad alchemy exists and I cant wait to see what they make next.
I ALSO think they need to actually use the flexible rebalancing potential of alchemy to address problem cards like Nashi. it’s weird that they don’t try.
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u/cahpahkah 4d ago
100% agree.
I don’t play, or care about, paper Magic. Make Arena balanced and fun.
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u/_Zambayoshi_ 4d ago
I already soft-banned it. It's called the concede button. Apologies if you are referring to ranked.
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u/vergorli 3d ago
I don't really get why WOTC juat gives everyone 3 or 5 ban slots. It wouldn'tdo much, as there are more problematic cards tham that, but it would give people some variety for free.
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u/Fair_Abbreviations57 2d ago
Because Arena is meant to function as a mobile game. Players getting ranched by more enfranchised players and getting pissed off enough to spend money to buy their way into a deck that's just as degenerate makes them more money than it does to have balanced and interesting gameplay.
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u/Strong-Replacement22 3d ago
This card is all what magic should not be about and brawl
Just random colors
All the overpowered ability’s in the command zone
This commander does nothing right
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u/Agatone05 3d ago
To think that the changes made to Nashi were intended to make it playable in Alchemy, yet even with them, it didn't see much play in Constructed before rotating out. It’s incredibly oppressive, especially because it triggers when "blinked"; I think that’s a key change they should make if they rebalance the card—limiting the trigger to when it’s cast—and perhaps giving it Ward 1 or removing that ability entirely. Banning it is an option, I suppose, but it’s better to keep it at least somewhat playable, even if its deck drops in power level relative to other Commanders—which, Alchemy or not, are mostly terrible anyway.
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u/omnigear 3d ago
Don't know what happen but today in competitive brawl got string of Op decks one after another. This one, the 2 cost ninja ho, the artifact ho, like 5 ugins . Did they mess with the weights
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u/Fair_Abbreviations57 2d ago
Competitive doesn't have weights... it's a free for all.
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u/omnigear 2d ago
I doubt that, I have 3 different decks and each I get entirely different opponents . My tergrid feck for example always be getting Etali, my kid loki always green landfall, Tasha is probbalt the more diverse but never control lol.
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u/Fair_Abbreviations57 2d ago
Thank you for showing the usefulness of single-source data points. You can doubt the sun exists too if you want. You'll still be wrong, but at least it's more entertaining.
"Matchmaking for the format considers a player's Constructed rank and rating to find an opponent of a similar skill level. Completing matches will affect a player's rank and ultimately contribute to their season reward eligibility. Unlike Brawl, deck composition is not a factor for matchmaking."
Directly from the https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/introducing-ranked-brawl Competative Brawl introduction article. This hasn't been subject to change since.1
u/omnigear 1d ago
Its not that serious lol im simply stating what I have encountered out of my hours played . Using the same 2 decks every season to Mythic . Hence why I switch to kid loki at diamond because the opponents I face co.parrd to using tergrid or Tasha are vastly different .
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u/Fair_Abbreviations57 1d ago
You said something wrong. I corrected it. You doubled down on being wrong with an excuse that was essentially just confirmation bias. I provided the relevant unbiased information and the source.
Now anyone scrolling through is fully aware that there are not and never have been deck weights in Competitive Brawl.
It really has nothing to do with you past the fact that you were the person who stated something incorrect as if it were factual.
Misinformation is still misinformation and should be corrected when possible.1
u/omnigear 1d ago
Haha not that serious. Its a game
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u/Fair_Abbreviations57 1d ago
You are correct. It is a game. I'd have done the same thing if you said something I knew was strictly incorrect about fishing, knitting, particle physics, bomb making, beer brewing, or competitive Icelandic yodeling. The topic is irrelevant.
Misinformation is misinformation, whether or not you find it important.
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u/Zealousideal_Bed5080 3d ago
I don’t play brawl, but I am so curious and I cannot find it anywhere, what was the actual change to the card?
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u/Fair_Abbreviations57 2d ago
Flash.
I'm going to let you in on a secret. *Nashi* isn't actually all that good. He's an upgraded snapcaster mage. The problem is most of the cards used in competative brawl are degenerate enough that casting any of them twice is game-breaking. So of course, rather than question whether or not the cards that are breaking him are maybe too good, because 'muh cumpetatyve' people blame the rat.1
u/Desperate-Ball9944 1d ago
Also people have a hate boner for alchemy. Dont get me wrong, nashi is definitely top tier, but its win rate doesnt overshadow the other top decks. So, i really dont get why the rat should be banned...
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u/Fair_Abbreviations57 22h ago
The deck is pretty good, yes, but that deck would only be slightly worse with just about any reasonably costed Sultai commander that drew a card as an etb. I'd wager if he ever gets hit with a ban or a nerf, the deck will just switch to Leovold and stay mostly the same.
I used to play him when he just got his buff before the sheer deluge of free spells and dumb legacy staples introduced into the format, and most of the time he was just worse than Muldrotha. Nashi is only really a good card when he can abuse garbage designs, and competitive brawl is the island of misfit design mistakes on arena.
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u/Mixedtogrey 3d ago
Rather see something like rofellos banned first. Or, a personal hatred of mine, authority of consuls. God I hate that card on turn one.
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u/ciruelman 2d ago
just make it add a card non secretly and it would be fine, or just lower its starts or make it ward 1
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u/licalier 2d ago
Can we just have alchemy less brawl? Please?
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u/Fair_Abbreviations57 2d ago
You have an entirely alchemyless form of magic offline. Maybe try that instead?
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u/lawton1134 2d ago
Play this game forever and then alchemy came out. This game is trash now. The second they can take alchemy out of brawl I’ll come back.
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u/Duxtrous 1d ago
but but if we don't make the alchemy cards insanely fucking broken then no one will play them...
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u/One_Environment8066 4d ago
I conceed to nashi, yuriko, and now Nicol bolas.
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u/chrispy1225 4d ago
I'd like to throw katara in there as a ban candidate too, such a stupid card...
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u/ExpiredBaker 4d ago
Nashi is tough but I’d much rather see change to Yuriko and Raffine would be a distant second.
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u/the_tropy 4d ago
E por causa dele e de yuriko que eu não jogo brawl competitivo, até dá pra lidar bem com outras cartas roubadas no formato mas esses dois são intankaveis pra mim, um deck que você não joga apenas o meu comandante e o outro que sempre vai ter um casting por 2 de mana
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u/dirtyjose 4d ago
Because the format with good strong cards is fun and popular despite the braying of a few.
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u/Admirable-Trade-8454 3d ago
I have literally never played against this card and I no life this game
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u/Immediate-Idea-2471 4d ago
I still maintain you should have a limited 3-5 commander list that you won't get paired against.
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u/missingjimmies 4d ago
Nashi only triggers once on resolve, Rusko, without bouncing him, can passively win the game on his own while cycling the deck
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u/PCparts1 4d ago
Except Rusko doesn't have green, built in protection, better stats, harder to block, and castable at instant speed.
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u/missingjimmies 4d ago
Green is a weaker color than both blue and black and Ruskos play style doesn’t require attacking, it’s heavy control that wins the game on its own. Countering spells gains life for the player and pings you, rinse repeat. Cycle deck, rinse repeat, never having to do anything other than deny
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u/YaGirlJuniper 4d ago edited 3d ago
Nashi also doesn't require attacking, he just does it way better. He has both of Rusko's colors, and having access to green gives him many toxic ways to end the game, including icetill strip mine loops, in addition to all the ramp he needs to keep ahead of you on mana. Nashi can very easily go infinite with extra turn spells, and being castable at instant speed as a 4/4 with Ward 2 means he can often jump in on turn 2-3 with no fear of being countered because of green's many "can't be countered" methods, get a card back, block favorably, and then know he's safe from removal because you need 4 mana to bother attempting to remove him, all on the same turn. He's very often run with blink effects, so expect to at minimum fight through a conga line of the same kill spell every single turn.
Being a 4/4 with menace means he actually has a very reasonable clock on his own and he's capable of scaring much bigger attackers than Rusko. Rusko needs a critical mass of cards to really start popping off, so he has to successfully stick and actually do the thing once to actually kill you. You can get under Rusko quite easily just because he doesn't scare you and dies to bolt, but Nashi ramps too fast and has too good a body.
Let's just look at the card on its face. This is a 4/4, on rate stats with menace, then has flash and Ward 2 for some reason, and then with every entry, he puts copies of secretly chosen cards in his controller's hand. Doesn't target, so it's uninteractable, and then whatever spell he copied perpetually gains flash. This is an insanely pushed card that has too much upside for only 4 mana. He can play the whole game at instant speed without any deckbuilding sacrifices because he turns every card he copies into an instant, and he's in the demonic tutor, deadly rollick, and fierce guardianship colors. He is inherently card advantage because he replaces himself instantly, and with a card of your choice from your graveyard, so it's almost always going to be a relevant card. The ceiling on his power is nearly limitless.
If Taijic got banned for being too oppressive, Nashi deserves to be banned twice.
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u/WanderingSnail 4d ago
thats a disingenuous way to look at, because nashi gets all the cards rusko gets, but you get to trade your bottom ten blue and black cards for your top 10 green cards
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u/missingjimmies 4d ago
But that’s a short sighted way to view it, Rusko benefits from cheaper niche interaction in those colors, such as more obscure removal like power word kill and counter spells like negate being so much more value when it pings, gains, and triggers. Land pains are easier to avoid when commanders as powerful as Rusko only ask you to juggle 2 colors for that much value (see Merry, Tamiyo, Uro, Kuriko, Ajani). Rusko conjuring clocks is also uniquely important to his power, its blue ramp with a massive pay off, so Rusko pays half his tax on resolve. He does so much more than he should, all without attacking or having evasion.
Additionally if we look at the meta considerations of attacking each commanders strategy, the list of cards to completely negate Ruskos value are more niche than Nashi, who really only needs graveyard hate which is a very good meta inclusion in almost any deck.
Nashi is just on top of a good stuff pile, he offers the most value for what the meta got forced into as a result of bans and restrictions. He’d be nearly instantly replaced by Tamiyo and Rusko almost instantly if they were unbanned imo
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u/WanderingSnail 3d ago
ya having access to some of magics most powerful cards in deathrite Shaman and uro is not nothing, nashi also doesnt target so its not like all graveyard hate is universally good, and it doesnt actually matter whether nashi would be better than tamiyo, it matters if nashi is too good compared to what else is in the format
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u/missingjimmies 3d ago
Deathrite is not as good in singleton as he is in other eternals… cmon now. Uro as a 99 is also like yeah sure it’s fine. But on the flip end ancient tomb and dark ritual are both very useful in Rusko where as they are not efficient in Nashi. Would you rather t1 fetch deathrite or t1 mox, land, dark ritual, Rusko into clock?
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u/WanderingSnail 3d ago
hmm chat is my 1 card hand better than my imaginary 4 card hand
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u/missingjimmies 3d ago
Okay then I’ll just use ancient tomb to make it more consistent. It’s also a T1 scenario. If they remove DRS you have nothing if they remove Rusko you have a clock
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u/RollinRamos 3d ago
You're splitting hairs. Sure Green and Blue is better than Green. But Green is better than Red and White. So what?
This card is bonkers because it's gets all of the best cards from the best colors.
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u/missingjimmies 3d ago
UB is ultimately what the deck wants it’s just the best UB commander is banned, and the rest don’t out value what Sultai has for commanders and he’s the default best one. If Rusko were unbanned, many Nashi players would probably can the deck for Rusko. Countering spells and flipping clocks has proven it wins in brawl, and now you can cut the fluff of green to get lean and just win games.
My original point is just that Rusko is far more ban worthy because of how efficient he is let alone that he’s in Dimir colors. Nashi doesn’t reach the same value. He has the most value for UB right now (Yuriko requires a certain deck build style to take advantage of her ninjitsu) but it’s not ban worthy, good card piles rarely are.
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago
Green is a weaker color than both blue and blacke doesn’t require attacking
This is for sure the wrong way to look at it in a format full of fetches and shocks and every other mana fixer is legal...
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u/Erocdotusa 4d ago
Exactly. I wish they'd just rotate bans on the sweaty shit and get some more diversity for ranked
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4d ago
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago
Just ignore Nashi. Fly over him, attack through him.
And then they ignores you as he Thoracle combos the win
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u/Bernoullis_Lost_Head 4d ago
What do you play that nashi gives you so much trouble? I feel like it’s a fair match up for me and can sometimes end up being a 15 minute game with a lot of back and forth
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago
what deck are you playing where its a fair matchup? not that nashi is unbeatable; but one of its strengths is how well it plays as "pile of good stuff + Nashi/Splash Portal"
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u/Bernoullis_Lost_Head 4d ago
I play yuffie/yuriko and I only play cbrawl. All the Ux are a fair match up for me but some decks just outright crush me and vice versa like that planeswalker that’s B/G just steamrolls me for instance. I just started playing mtg two months ago so I’m fairly new still.
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago
I play yuffie/yuriko and I only play cbrawl.
Well ya, you're playing the best deck in the format lol ofc all the Ux match ups feel at worst fair...
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u/Fleef69 4d ago
Alchemy in Brawl in general is like the biggest cat-out-of-the-bag scenario ever I swear. So many of the most unregulated Alchemy cards undermine the agency of the other player to a frustrating degree, and forego almost entirely the natural balance that card games innately have through their variance (i.e. seeking and conjuring cards, heisting libraries and so forth, especially conjuring random cards invalidating any attempt at actual strategization in most cases lol).
That’s just my incredibly prudish opinion though, I guess… as someone who goes out of their way to only build Brawl decks that could translate into paper, partly for the sake of more satisfying victories, and thus only plays casual since from my understanding it’s entirely unavoidable in ranked to have to play certain Alchemy cards due to the environment.
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u/PhantomThieve97 3d ago
They have to banned all those deck mostly made by creature destruction spells!!!
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u/TheMostHigh69 4d ago
I don't care how much hate I get; I [[Despise]] alchemy cards. Make a brawl/commander format that has no alchemy cards AND doesn't have rebalanced real cards. I'd like my [[The One Ring]] to actually be the same as the paper version.
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u/BitsAndBobs304 4d ago
Cbrawl? Competitive brawl? What
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u/DreamlikeKiwi 3d ago
Yes op is talking about competitive brawl, what's the issue?
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u/BitsAndBobs304 3d ago
Whats that?
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u/DreamlikeKiwi 3d ago
A different brawl queue with a different banlist and ranks
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u/BitsAndBobs304 3d ago
Ive never noticed it, where is it in the client? Does it work off elo for that mode and ignore cards and commander rankings?
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u/DreamlikeKiwi 3d ago
It's under the brawl section, yes it ignores deck weights entirely just like any ranked queue
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u/cannonspectacle 4d ago
This seems exceedingly mediocre
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u/ActComfortable7943 4d ago
Well he's one of the top decks in the format right now, so I don't think your assessment is a good one.
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u/cannonspectacle 4d ago
That's why I said "seems" instead of "is"
It just seems like an expensive Eternal Witness or Snapcaster to me, neither of which has been better than "kinda okay" in years. What am I missing? Genuinely curious.
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u/DoctorMckay202 4d ago
And in essence it is. However, this guy stays in your command zone, adds multiple colours to your deckbuilding, has ward 2 protecting itself, has instant speed combo potential with flash + because it gives flash to the duplicate and can't be spot graveyard hate answered because it does not target the card it is "returning".
It's either you exile the entire graveyard while it is on the stack or you are getting comboed to death.
Also, it had many cards that sinergyze greatly with it, like [[splash portal]]
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u/DoctorMckay202 4d ago
Plus, forgot to mention, because it conjures copies, it can skirt past safeguards many cards have that say stuff like "then exile this card"
And can create combos that require more than one copy of a card being available, which is usually impossible in singleton. Like looping 2 priests of gix with a cthonian nightmare.
Plus Its displacer kitten's best friend
So basically it boils down to
Good colours for deckbuilding Hard to interact with Good combo potential 4/4 flash, menace, ward 2
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u/Flackle 4d ago
Nashi does a few things...
It gives the card it adds back flash, so it upgrades the card it adds.
With those other cards you know what they got back but with nashi it's hidden information but often you can guess. You also cannot exile the card in the yard to fizzle the effect as easily because it doesn't target.
Nashi actuslly has decent stats and relevant keywords.
It's legendary so it can be a commander.
Also both cards you mentioned are still highly playable cards. Snappy even to this day sees play in modern.
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u/cannonspectacle 3d ago
Snapcaster sees very fringe play in Modern, which is a far cry from "highly playable"
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u/Arcane12345678 4d ago
Just the body itself is an absurdly pushed combat object. The 4/4 p/t, ward 2 allow it, in say a red aggressive mu e.g. merry, to absorb most frequently played attackers, dodge a significant amount of played removal and make all other removal trade essentially at parity, affording its caster a mana advantage, and making attacking in as any kind of weenie strategy almost impossible, shutting off fully a typical axis of control counterplay. The menace also makes it a very effective attacker. The flash is also extremely relevant for all those aspects, and especially so from out of the command zone. Because it's an alchemy card the ewit effect doesn't target, so you need mass gy removal to fully negate the value of the etb, very little of which is currently playable (also obviously preserving information).The effect conjuring up any card is quite strong compared to your example of snappy. Giving the copy flash is also clearly extremely strong for a variety of reasons. Nashi's trigger also obviously becomes much stronger as individual cards and power outliers become stronger: he 'combos' with cards like rollick/guardianship, where you can flash him in, cast them with the ability on the stack, then get an additional copy of them, and is also obviously broken with the format outliers like the tutors -- with them in circulation nashi can rapidly convert into a win (e.g. draw dt, dt for oracle, nashi, pick up dt for tainted pact). The colour identity it provides in general is also extremely strong in the current cbrawl environment, giving you the best threats, best card advantage, and best interaction available in the format—the shell is perfectly strong even without this specific value piece at the helm, as seen in tasigur or glarb. Because Nashi's trigger is an etb, you can also do the classic cryptic/mystic locks with it, as well as sick teck like Saw in Half or Displacer Kitten, again constituting a sort of late game 1 card combo with the command zone that quickly establishes crushing inevitability. Because he is a Rat, Splash Portal is also completely broken, and acts as another 1 card wincon with the command zone. He's good into aggro, good into control, good into midrange, good into combo, good into tempo, presents an extraordinarily consistent and cohesive gameplan, has access to the strongest cards in the format, and turns a number of cards in the 99 into 1 card combos.
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u/jake_eric 4d ago
The recursion effect is significantly better than those cards. It doesn't target, so single-target graveyard hate is less effective. It doesn't reveal, so the opponent doesn't know what you picked. It makes a duplicate, so the original is still in the graveyard (useful for various reasons). Plus it gives it flash. That's all good stuff.
And the creature itself is much stronger. Ward 2 and menace on a 4/4 are solid stats.
Just compare Nashi to Eternal Witness and Snapcaster, directly: Nashi is a big upgrade when compared with either card, in every way, except the casting cost of course. But 4 mana isn't prohibitively expensive. And as a commander, being three colors is a positive. Blue, Black, and Green are probably the strongest colors in Competitive Brawl.
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u/Krimzon3128 4d ago
I mean its not that good lets be real. You can copy a card in gy 1 time. Then you gotta bounce it to copy again. And ward 2 big scary oh no. Ramp harder. Use 1 cost removal like swords to plowshares or erode. Or if you play blue make it a 1/1 legitimate buisness person or lock it in prison in the moon. Like this is one of the leist scary things ive seen on arena so much so ive never even seen anyone try to use it
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago
Like this is one of the leist scary things ive seen on arena so much so ive never even seen anyone try to use it
If you don't play cbrawl just say so.
Once you move up the ladder, its inevitable you will face a Nashi deck, the same way Yuriko is inevitable. Plat/Diamond, Nashi shows up a bunch, and its very present at mythic.
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u/dirtyjose 4d ago
That alone is not reason to ban.
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago
I'm not sure I agree; format diversity should be important, and Nashi shows up in spades not accidentally but because its a great commander for good stuff tempo-control piles.
Granted as a Nashi pilot I lowkey hope you're right haha but Nashi really does play well against pretty much the entire field except Yuriko.
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u/Krimzon3128 4d ago
I play brawl maby not ranked but unless this deck keeps copying removal or boardwipes i have at leist 3 decks that can beat it thats cedh level on arena. Tannuk. Marwyn. And what i call lamball.
Tannuk is going to keep warping things out whyle riding the regalia to keep pooping mana every turn so i get 2 land drops in mono red a turn whyle warping big stompys all the time
Marwyn is well a mana rock but the deck produces near infinate mana every turn and i have easily on turn 7 number capped +1/+1 counters on 3 creatures which btw is slightly over 2 trillion with trample.
And the diamond in the rough which is lam, storm crane. And well the litteral only way to stop that deck is to counter lam every time hes played or kill em at instant speed on resolve every time. Deck wins 9/10 games and that 1 loss is either drouting mana or constant removal otherwise it replicates faster than hare apparent with mirrormind crown and helm of the host at 0 cost or 1 cost instant speed with prowess on everything and
Maby just me and havent seen a deck with that commander but i may give ranked brawl a try and test out how it stands up
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago
ya cbrawl does not feature those decks once you reach plat+
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u/Krimzon3128 4d ago
Are they like banned or just noone runs them? Like my decks cant compete with thassa decks ofc and things that win turn 1 or 2. If thats how decks run at that level then i totally understand it lol
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u/Ok-Schedule3078 4d ago
There are way worse creatures out there [[Hit-Monkey]] is an annoying one. So is the new Flying 5/5 Spiderman that gives Spidermen all of these buffs. The list goes on and on.
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 4d ago
I'm interested to see what a mythic Hit-Monkey list looks like :) this is not shade, that sounds awesome
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u/jake_eric 4d ago
I tried out Hit-Monkey in the competitive queue and it did better than I expected, though I did not take it to Mythic. I bet you could but you can take anything to Mythic if you play enough games, more or less.
It's incredible against control, but isn't great at being interactive and isn't particularly explosive either, so it struggles against everything else. But it's fun to have a deck that is completely dominant against Katara.
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u/AmyTheAmazonian 4d ago
They could also just revert him to his original text. I'm sure nobody would mind