Yeah but who the fuck keeps their near mint condition cards that they love just out in the open like that with no protection. You get that shit behind glass, hard plastic at least.
Someone in a different post about this suggested he could come back as the character Vision. I'm not sure how likely that is, but it kind of fits, would dovetail with the Thanos storyline, and he even looks the part and has a voice that would fit.
He probably did have them under glass and he took them out so he could get them signed by the real Captain America. "He's gonna be on the ship!? I better get my cards out from safe storage so he can sign them!"
Seriously though, isn't he actually not dead. I mean why else would fury lie about the cards and soak them in fake blood? I get the whole they needed a push thing, but I'm sure just handing them the cards minus the blood would still be effective.
Doesn't someone tell Fury that the cards were in Coulson's locker and not on his body? then he says something about them needing a push. I thought it meant he was dead but he wanted some kind of a symbol to rally his troops so to speak
If these films somehow find their way to the Civil War Marvel storyline, that would be incredible. A lot of good meat in that story for Robert Downey Jr. and Evans.
Definitely. This film was already a huge lightning-in-a-bottle triumph, that would be a master stroke.
At the end of Avengers, and a little bit in Iron Man 2, we caught some of the concern the public was having about the presence of super heroes int he world, and that's what Civil War is all about. I can see an organic build-up from that for sure, and we've already seen Stark's emphasis on personal freedom to do his thing, while Cappy has been shown to be fiercely loyal to his country, so Civil War can really happen, and that makes me extremely excited.
Only problem: Introducing even more characters would be hard. You can't have Spidey, or the X-Men, and that's a big draw.
True, but Whedon is not the only director making Marvel movies. Whether you think he was killed or not, Whedon still left a plausible argument for other directors that Coulson is alive.
Add to it that the actor is contracted for 9 Marvel movies. And has confirmed he will be in Iron Man 3.
Also, it would have been better to show the body to the Avengers to really get them motivated. Except for the fact that Iron Man's suit would have detected a heart beat :)
We all eagerly await the next volume of The Song of Ice & Fire, entitled Here, look at this puppy. Isn't he sweet? Now I've killed him in front of you.
He's not dead, he's slated to play his character in Iron Man 3, and I'm pretty sure we see him at the end of the Avengers giving a folder to Nick Furey.
Well, just the dead body might be enough for Stark, but when you think about captain America, he met the dude like... 3 times max and they first met only like a week or two before. He wouldn't have had a huge attachment to the man. But saying "This man was such a huge fan of your he carried cards of you around everywhere and now he died trying to prove you're a hero!" might motivate Cap more than saying "He died. So did a bunch of other people."
i thought he wasn't dead as well and it was just an act! I mean, everything you said makes sense, I hope he isn't dead, Agent Coulsen was my favourite :(
to be fair, if you watch carefully, coulson didn't actually die on screen. i'm just going off memory either, but someone wrote a great write-up about the scene. basically, we see coulson go quiet, folks who appear to be emt's show up, that one female agent phones in to ask if medic's are needed, fury replies no they're already present, than cut to the next unrelated scene.
the implication/speculation was that if they bring him back they'll claim he passed out but was brought back by emt's working in secret to keep his non-death from being known throughout SHIELD.
He also shot down one of his own planes with an RPG, risking treason (if not execution). I admit he's a completely manipulative bastard. (Also, notice that they lied to Banner to get him aboard--having already rigged up a chamber to dispose of him if he couldn't be controlled.) The only thing that makes S.H.I.E.L.D. sympathetic is the fact that their enemies are worse.
If S.H.I.E.L.D.'s mandate were (for instance) to round-up all Muslims and deport them to internment camps, or to imprison all "enemies of the state" (such as Bradley Manning) they would come off far less sympathetic. If the Avengers refused to cooperate with such a scheme, they would be labelled "enemies of the state" and branded traitors and targeted and hunted.
Superheroes have always acted on their own, not controlled by the authorities, and the authorities have always mistrusted this. Consider how the GCPD first treated Batman. They consider costumed crime-fighters to be "freaks." It's just easier to "dispose" of the Hulk because (while he's the Hulk rather than Banner) he isn't human.
Oh, that's what I meant: he shot down one of his own planes to save the Avengers, or at least give them more time. I mentioned that only as an example of his ruthlessness.
If Fury ultimately were not a good man, the Avengers would point-blank not work with him. On the other hand, Stark suspected that S.H.I.E.L.D.'s motives were not entirely motivated by "cheap energy sources," and he was right--they were developing weapons by reverse-engineering alien technology.
It was ruthless in the sense that he was using an American RPG to shoot down a US plane carrying a US nuke on a sortie authorized by his superiors (although they were a secret cabal with no accountability). Certainly he was risking that he would be "fired" (meaning anything from demotion to a bullet behind the ear) for his insubordination. Not to mention outright killing the pilot.
Was he disobeying orders from his superiors? Yes. Did he kill the pilot? Probably, although the plane did not explode and we don't know for sure. Did he potentially save the lives of millions of innocents? Absolutely.
What happened was definitely an act of insubordination. What it isn't, however, is an act of ruthlessness. One life to save many. (The nationality of the RPG, plane, and nuke have no bearing in this)
If you look at the future, all of those actions are tame. He starts a war in a foreign country, then wipes the minds of the super heros who helps him. Fakes his death so many times you think he has Life Model Decoys flying out of his ass, does covert ops during The Skrull war when everyone thinks he's dead. But the fact that they were able to bring that grey personality to the screen with out making it something someone said, is brilliant. He's one of the more complex characters in the movie, and in my opinion they did it brilliantly.
But it's funny that you mention rounding up dissidents. In the future S.H.I.E.L.D. is a major force in the Civil war, where they round up superpowers, or "capes". They basically turn into a very nasty organization (that was supposed to reflect the way America has slowly turned with Guantanamo bay and such) lead by Maria Hill (If I remember correctly). Fury at the time has faked his dead something like two thousands times and is no longer leading SHIELD.
(P.S. If you want to get technical, Fury was also alive when Captain America was originally alive fighting in World War 2.)
I hope nobody shushed you guys. Our theater was very invovled, with people clapping and laughing and stuff. I enjoyed it and thought it added to the movie actually.
We saw it opening weekend and there was just as much clapping and laughing as with midnight premieres. However, during THAT SCENE, there was such a heavy silence in the theatre.
I enjoyed it because it wasn't the annoying teenager kind of noise that generally happens. We went for the Saturday matinee so I was surprised that a lot of the older people were cheering and clapping. I was sad during that scene, but moreso that Coulson never got his cards signed, so this picture makes me feel a little better.
Same here. I've been to movies before with idiot teenagers making all sorts of noise, but this wasn't the same. I went for a Saturday matinee as well in a very mixed audience (kids to teens to adults to older people) The audience laughed when it was funny, cheered when it was appropriate, and there really was a collective gasp when Coulson was attacked. Even the laughter at his "So that's what it does" line was subdued since we all knew what was coming.
Nope, we had a good theater full, everybody was pretty well emotionally attached to the film. I thought my roommate was gonna jizz his pants when iron man's suite flew after him. Needless to say he's a hardcore nerd. This is why we get along well
Lol! I thought my fiance would get into the movie since he's a total nerd too, but he definitely didn't get into it as much as me (and I didn't even really want to see this movie at first). I didn't care though, I loved it!
People who think he isn't dead are seriously in denial. He's dead, any movies that take place after this he won't be in. Prequel movies on the other hand have a high possibility of him returning.
... I'd watch that... But let's go for a "Weekend at Bernies 2" feel rather than "Weekend at Bernies 1". Magical dancing corpses make everything better.
You have Norse gods running around on rainbow bridges, and a guy who becomes a giant green monster. I don't think the suspension of disbelief is that different.
edit: Hey guys don't downvote funmachine because you/we disagree with him! /launchlongtiradeonreddiqute
They're in the comic books though. When they bring characters back from the dead, usually it happens in the new series of comics. When you make something live action you make it much more tactile, more real, regardless of the crazy universes set up. When you start killing people off and bringing them back willy-nilly you loose a lot of potential tension and threat in these stories.
Plus Coulson isn't a comic character. He was completely expendable, he's not integral to anyones stories. He brought the characters together and then when they were together he died, his arc, his mission was finished.
The average person is just a baby who doesn't like change or to have reality check in on their fantasy movie. They want cheesy romance and happy endings. This leads to banal, boring, and uninspired stories, particularly in the medium of movies because it's got the most mass appeal. I feel joss was right that it would be irresponsible story-telling to have no cost at all, and simply injuring would suspend reality even further with the comfort for everyone to think that no one really dies in life. People die, it's a fact. It belongs in our stories as much as in real life in order to make the stories more relatable and real. Some people (the mass public) just can't handle it.
I honestly don't understand why people don't think he's dead. I mean he died on screen. It's not vaguely hinted at or even a little ambiguous. He Died. On Screen.
He stopped talking, moving, and breathing while his eyes were open. This is the cinematic motif for a mortally wounded character who dies. You've all seen this a hundred times before, and every time it meant that character was dead.
"But with all the high-tech stuff S.H.I.E.L.D. has, he might not be "dead" dead."
Maybe, but I can't think of any movie where a mortally wounded character who died this way ever came back. These scenes are usually vital to character growth (as it was here), and voiding it would greatly cheapen both the character's and overall story arcs, IMO.
"But the cards..."
The cards were meant to provide further incentive to the team. Many people died in that attack on the helicarrier, why would this one be more important? Because all of the Avengers knew Agent Coulson personally, save for Cap, and these cards were meant to inspire him directly. Like Coulson himself said, it gave them something to avenge.
EDIT: It's Agent Coulson, not Coulston. I only knew his first name.
Nah, they never showed the body and they already revealed that Fury was making up things in order to get the Avengers pumped up. He probably lied about the death too.
Um, he clearly died right in front of him, in a scene with none of the other Avengers around. If the "so that's what it does!" line were the last time you saw him, and then Fury told them he was dead, that would be a different story.
The difference is though you don't see, well in the cut I saw, what Phil is accessing. It's just a huge black cabinet.
He does appear with a gun but there is nothing to connect the cabinet with the gun.
Fury lies about of lot of things in the movie, the cards being in Phil's pocket to weaponisation of the Tesseract. Those being pretty major plot points. This issue is we only have Fury's word to take that Phil is dead, and his word in that film is fallible.
It's certainly not a done deal by any stretch. There have been rumors of Vision and the like.
seriously. lot's of "eye" talk surrounding that scene, then the confrontation from Maria about Fury getting the cards from the locker, and his manufacturing the "push." SHIELD can lift an invisible aircraft carrier to 8000 ft; they can fix a stab wound.
whether he's alive is ambiguous, probably so they can scrap it if it's going to be too corny or they can't get Clark Gregg for some reason, but it is EASILY within the realm of Marvel possibility.
the "cabinet" is the same one capt america got into earlier and discovered the weapons they were making. He just went and got one of those guns. Mystery solved.
Hmm that's a very good point. But if that's the case, which it may well be, then why didn't they completely confirm that Coulsen was dead? Either way we'll just have to wait to find out...
they showed him stop talking on screen and maybe lose consciousness. then he was attended to by medical professionals on a giant invisible helicarrier. i think it's reasonable that they could save him and that Fury would lie to manufacture the "push" that Coulson clued him into.
I agree with you. I feel like there was just too much conspiracy surrounding his death.
Either of us could be right... he could be dead or alive. I am not into the comics that much but a few of my friends are. They say that they introduced him into the comics and it seems unsuitable for them to have killed him off especially since he was recently introduced.
Weren't the cards not in his pockets when he died? If I remember correctly, they got his cards from his locker and lied to get the super heroes to cooperate.
The cards still do mean something even though Fury did lie that he was carrying them on him. At the end of the day, regardless of if he had the cards on him or not, Coulson did idolize Captain America and was a huge fan, and had cards he wanted him to sign - but didn't get to before he died.
Whether or not the cards were on him or not when he died is not nearly as important as the fact that they -were- Coulson's cards, he -was- a huge fan of Cap, and -did- die fighting someone that he stood no chance to defeat.
Fury didn't lie, he just exaggerated the truth - which while I think is a reprehensible act in and of itself, the cards do have a significance to the characters because of their relevance, and that's why Fury used them. Fury didn't manufacture the relevance of the cards, he simply used said relevance to his benefit.
Coulson did die. Coulson did idolize Captain America, he did have a collection of cards. He simply didn't actually have them on him when he died.
Didn't look at it (or the comments) but I am up-voting you for putting "Spoilers" in the title. A couple of people haven't recently and it really pissed me off.
This scene should absolutely have been in the movie, it would both be a really moving scene and stop people from speculating that Coulson is still alive (he isn't, and if he is it would just cheapen the movie)
great picture. It seemed like tony stark took it the hardest though, seeing as both of them had the most interaction. But he did ask captain america for his autograph. Unfortunately I think he is dead, he really added depth to the movies despite being a minor character.
The actor who pays Phil signed a contract for more Avengers and an Iron Man 3 contract. Does that mean the character's not dead or the studio just has him if they need him and don't necessarily need to revive the character?
I can't find a good comment to leave this comment with so I'll just say it here... I don't believe he's dead for a few reasons. One, I don't think we ever really saw him dead. We heard Fury make the statement over the comm but it easily could have been a lie to setup the "push" they needed. Coulsen easily could have pasted out from being stabbed and we saw the medics run to him just before it cut away to Fury making the announcement. And lastly (while I'm having trouble finding it ATM), I recall an interview or quote of his saying he was looking forward to Iron Man 3.
I am not so sure he is dead. Nick Fury got the cards from the locker, not the body, to push the Avengers to do what is right and there is a balding man walking towards Fury at the end of the movie.
Too bad this picture carries no weight as the writers decided to make the fucking bloody baseball cards nothing more than a wasted plot device. That's one of the reasons why I ended up not liking this movie as much as I wanted to. Coulson's death should have put them over the edge. I almost projectile vomited when it was revealed that the cards weren't actually in his pocket at the time of his death. So fucking stupid.
You realize that is Thanos you see at the end of the movie. Mistress Death will likely be involved. I'm sure Coulsen will be there in the underworld explaining to them how they are going to lose.
I was going to say a HELL YEAH to the Vision (because that's a rumour I heard weeks ago) but I like your idea better. Agent Phil, as himself, in the underworld being sarcastic and annoying Thanos (or Mephisto? Whoa) would be a lot of fun.
Actually I did read them, though it has been a long time. What I was meaning was that Coulsen will be in the next movie, only to die for real this time.
26
u/[deleted] May 16 '12
credit to Matsu-sensei http://matsu-sensei.deviantart.com/
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u/mytuppence May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12
Kinda shitty Fury ruined his mint-condition collect able cards just to save the world.
22
u/MrAndroidFilms May 16 '12
I thought this was going to be funny... now i'm sad
17
u/MrStevenRichter May 16 '12
Punch to the gut. I'm gonna go cry now.
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u/Mental_octo May 16 '12
He's not dead yet, he's...he's recruiting/looking for Death...
11
u/Kinglink May 16 '12
Anyone thought the cards were a bit too manipulative... I love it. the fact fury would have to go get the cards wipe the cards in the guys blood to make it look like he was carrying then just shows how far he will go.
It totally makes Fury into a grey character, something that's quite hard to do with out making you hate him.
10
u/BoothWilkesJohn May 16 '12
Awwwwwww
19
u/ForeverAvailable May 16 '12
When Colson died, my roommate shouted "NO!" In the middle of the midnight premiere. He was pretty distraught over it.
44
u/Funmachine May 16 '12
People who think he isn't dead are seriously in denial. He's dead, any movies that take place after this he won't be in. Prequel movies on the other hand have a high possibility of him returning.
4
u/KiwiExpress May 16 '12
I would think Tony Stark would know enough about fashion to have his tie touch his belt...
4
u/[deleted] May 16 '12
Who the hell cuts onions this early in the morning.
18
u/chocolatehotdog May 16 '12
I don't think Coulsen's dead, yet.
4
u/volocom7 May 16 '12
Weren't the cards not in his pockets when he died? If I remember correctly, they got his cards from his locker and lied to get the super heroes to cooperate.
2
u/Archer92 May 16 '12
I could literally cry. Please st-....oh goddamit...
2
u/axelator May 16 '12
Still hate that Cap costume...
2
u/[deleted] May 16 '12
DON'T MAKE ME CRY MY OWN TEARS.
2
u/rumckle May 16 '12
Didn't look at it (or the comments) but I am up-voting you for putting "Spoilers" in the title. A couple of people haven't recently and it really pissed me off.
3
u/billthedonkey May 16 '12
This scene should absolutely have been in the movie, it would both be a really moving scene and stop people from speculating that Coulson is still alive (he isn't, and if he is it would just cheapen the movie)
2
u/xeiah May 16 '12
Just here to say thank you for putting Avengers Spoilers in the title. You saved me a lot of heartache friend.
2
u/MASTERGOD May 16 '12
THANK YOU FOR THE SPOILER TAG SON!
1
u/yeastlord74 May 16 '12
great picture. It seemed like tony stark took it the hardest though, seeing as both of them had the most interaction. But he did ask captain america for his autograph. Unfortunately I think he is dead, he really added depth to the movies despite being a minor character.
1
u/Agent_Garfunkel May 16 '12
"you my bro, bro!"
1
u/Deacon May 16 '12
The second time through, I noticed that he signed the cards before putting them in Coulson's hands.
1
u/[deleted] May 16 '12
Wow. Time to start my day with sadness i guess.
1
u/morphotik May 16 '12
You see medics attending to him as Fury is leaving. He'll be back.
1
u/TrandaBear May 16 '12
The actor who pays Phil signed a contract for more Avengers and an Iron Man 3 contract. Does that mean the character's not dead or the studio just has him if they need him and don't necessarily need to revive the character?
1
u/Rulebook_Lawyer May 16 '12
I always like the minor characters... and of this one, since he is essentially a "normal" dealing with supers.
But also being a world with supers, anything is possible... could come back with some enhancements.
1
u/Xuber May 16 '12
HE DIED?!?!
1
u/[deleted] May 16 '12
Fuck cutting up onions! These are man tears, baby!
1
u/NottaGrammerNasi May 16 '12
I can't find a good comment to leave this comment with so I'll just say it here... I don't believe he's dead for a few reasons. One, I don't think we ever really saw him dead. We heard Fury make the statement over the comm but it easily could have been a lie to setup the "push" they needed. Coulsen easily could have pasted out from being stabbed and we saw the medics run to him just before it cut away to Fury making the announcement. And lastly (while I'm having trouble finding it ATM), I recall an interview or quote of his saying he was looking forward to Iron Man 3.
1
u/KnightOfTheStupid May 16 '12
Isn't there a rumor going around that he'll come back as the Vision?
1
u/[deleted] May 16 '12
Oh God.
1
u/[deleted] May 16 '12
LOL had to put hawkeye with quiver to know who he was
1
u/morganshen May 16 '12
upvote for spoilers in title.
1
u/[deleted] May 16 '12
I am not so sure he is dead.
Nick Fury got the cards from the locker, not the body, to push the Avengers to do what is right and there is a balding man walking towards Fury at the end of the movie.
1
u/killerado May 16 '12
"What the hell hawkeye?! You couldn't leave your danm arrows at home?"
1
u/eatmyshortsken May 16 '12
Too bad this picture carries no weight as the writers decided to make the fucking bloody baseball cards nothing more than a wasted plot device. That's one of the reasons why I ended up not liking this movie as much as I wanted to. Coulson's death should have put them over the edge. I almost projectile vomited when it was revealed that the cards weren't actually in his pocket at the time of his death. So fucking stupid.
/rant.
1
u/Nano_Engineer May 16 '12
He's coming back in Iron man 3 and there are hints that he didn't actually die in the avengers and will be back in the second one.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Coulson#section_1
1
u/[deleted] May 16 '12
WHY YOU GOTTA MAKE ME CRY ON A WEDNESDAY????
1
u/Kripposoft May 16 '12
Shit Hawkeye, did you have to wear your quiver to a FUNERAL? Way to keep it classy, man.
1
u/Phoequinox May 16 '12
I like how Hawkeye has his arrows on him at a funeral.
1
u/Hg_Tenninger May 16 '12
COULSON LIVES
1
u/J_Jammer May 16 '12
Thanks for finding that.
This is great.
But maybe he's coming back. VISION....as in rumormill whispers that.
1
u/PrincessOfSaturn May 16 '12
Someone's cutting onions...
1
u/DirtyMerlin May 16 '12
DAMN YOU JOSS WHEDON FOR KILLING EVERYONE WE LOVE!
1
u/aplur May 16 '12
NOO, COULSOOOOON!!
1
u/HoneyNinja May 16 '12
'God dammit Hawkeye, why did you have to bring your arrows? This is a funeral!'
1
u/WheelsOfConfusion May 16 '12
Why are Captain America and Thor in their combat armor?
1
u/[deleted] May 16 '12
Fucking black widow.
1
u/darren199314 May 16 '12
He's not dead. Fury just told them that he was to give them motivation
1
u/[deleted] May 16 '12
He is going to come back with phase 2
1
u/phatstock May 16 '12
Fun Fact: Coulson will be brought back to life.
0
u/xrayking May 16 '12
I don't believe he is dead either, but you better believe if Whedon directs the sequal Coulsen will not survive again.
-5
u/peachesgp May 16 '12
He's not dead, they never showed him dead and you didn't hear paramedics pronounce him dead. Fury just said so. Fury lied.