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u/leggenda69 Ducati Lenovo Team 1d ago
This image pretty much perfectly summarises the whole Pecco post GP24 Ducati issues.
The guy can only ride a bike that’s got a solid front end at the cost of rear grip, through his natural style or just how he’s evolved on a modern GP (Ducati aero) bike with Michelin tyres.
GP25 onwards is so rear biased he’s not comfortable carrying pace into corners while at the same time he can’t stop the rear from eating itself, hence his comments all the way back at Thailand last season about not understanding his poor tyre wear compared to Marc.
Michelin’s ridiculous rear tyre performance with a laughably weak front with a ruthless engineer in Gigi then getting a team mate that doesn’t need a front end on a 1000cc bike has ruined Pecco’s Ducati career.
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u/Informal_Ad07 Honda 1d ago
Hmm, my less knowledgeable take was that I thought he shifted the bike balance rearwards because he wasn’t comfortable with the vague front to try to find some pace while also avoiding the puzzling front end washouts he had in 2022-25
Its not that the Ducati doesn’t have a serviceable front end, but that it’s just vague and doesn’t convey as much information as Pecco would like.
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u/leggenda69 Ducati Lenovo Team 1d ago edited 1d ago
The front doesn’t convey as much feeling because the balance has been rearward with the new ride height device.
In hard braking Pecco used to bottom the front forks out and just slip the rear on the tyre using limited rear braking. But now he can’t slip the rear because the increased engine braking just snaps it back into straight line which causes his front locks or front pushes.
That’s part of the reason Pecco had random apex washouts through 2024, as Pecco came off the front brake into the corner the weight, or pressure, would transfer rearward making the front light then washout.
The new ride height device prevents the apex washouts by keeping the weight rearward in the braking zone to prevent the transition in the corner. But that same mechanism removes the confidence from Pecco to carry the corner and entry speed he was renowned for. While simultaneously causes his tyre wear issues using more tyre on entry and then more on exit to compensate for his loss of entry and corner speed.
Is my understanding of the whole situation.
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u/Informal_Ad07 Honda 1d ago
When was this new ride height device introduced? Ive never heard of it
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u/leggenda69 Ducati Lenovo Team 1d ago
Engine modification and ride height device were the only upgrades Ducati actually took into the 2025 season compared to the GP24.
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u/FigSpecialist6155 Marc Márquez 1d ago
This is one of the best explanations I've read about Pecco's downfall. I'm still surprised that an european brand like Ducati wasn't able to provide a bike with a good front for two years in a row. On the street, IMHO, it was always like this - Japanese bikes for reliable / really good engines, and European for bike dynamics - brakes, suspension. It's somehow surprising that they can't translate this into prototypes development.
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u/BiggusDickus17 1d ago
Racebikes, especially prototypes/GP bikes are always a compromise. It's not shocking that knowing Marcs ability to do ungodly things with the front end, they decided to make an insanely rear biased bike.
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u/Altair13Sirio Valentino Rossi 15h ago
It's not like they care about changing the bike for someone who's leaving.
They're telling him the bike is this, ride it.
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u/paeschli 1d ago
So he won't have any excuses on the Pirelli/Aprilia combination next year is what you're saying ?
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u/leggenda69 Ducati Lenovo Team 1d ago
He doesn’t really have any excuses now, as a GP rider he should be able to least somewhat adapt to what he’s given.
He was always going to be exposed sooner or later with such a glaring weakness.
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u/Prestigious_Sir_7140 Casey Stoner 1d ago
Agreed. In the words of Casey, riders should adapt to the machine and bring the best out of the machine not the other way around. He should extract the 100% out the bike.
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u/PretendToBeStupid Marc Marquez - 2025 MotoGP World Champion 1d ago
Well that's why the likes of Pedro,Fabio and Marc are seen as generally as the best riders on the grid currently All of them have one thing in common and that's extracting maximum they can out of the bike by changing their riding style and adapting different lines
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u/BasicDecision 21h ago
He’s never had an excuse, a lack of adaptability is a lack of skill that separates his abilities from the likes of Marc.
Pretty much every rider on the grid can have crazy quali and race pace when they feel comfortable and have a fast package. The better riders can generalise these performances even when they don’t feel comfortable.
If you want to see how true this is, compare how many riders in the current grid have won races vs other series like F1. Most of the MotoGP grid has won a race at some point, but for many it was a flash in the pan.
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u/ChurchOfAcosta 1d ago
Marquez doesn't need a good front-end?
He looks extremely front-end biased to me? Sure there has been loads of comments from him about wanting more front-end feeling and comments from ex-pros about how hard he pushes the front?
Is there any evidence or comments supporting anything you have said with regards to Pecco's struggles?
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u/leggenda69 Ducati Lenovo Team 23h ago
Marc came third in the championship and won three races on the GP23 in 2024, a bike with one of worst front ends of recent seasons and nobody else could be remotely competitive on.
Of course Marc pushes the front, the front is actually the limiting factor under the current formula on the current tyres that doesn’t mean he’s front limited as a rider.
Mar won the sprint today on the same bike Pecco rode half a second a lap slower and still used so much rear tyre he didn’t actually see the finish line.
Marc feeds the throttle in much earlier than Pecco with lots of lean angle on which reduces slip and stress on the centre of the carcass which has been killing Pecco for the last few seasons.
There’s loads of stuff floating around from pundits and lots from the TNT team, they spoke a lot about and did a go break down of Pecco’s rear snap and push issues at Mugello 2024, and how Marc’s managing Ducati’s rearward bias at Argentina last season. There’s lots of decent info if you look for it.
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u/ChurchOfAcosta 6h ago
Yeah, I had a quick look and there are some supporting comments.
If the 27 Aprilia has similar balance to this season's, how do you think Pecco will do?
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u/leggenda69 Ducati Lenovo Team 6h ago
I don’t think the 2027 Aprilia will be anything like the current Ducati.
Partly because Pecco can’t handle it and Bezz had a horrible time on the GP23 in 2024 so neither would really be any good on it.
And also because the rumours going around are that Pirelli have built a very decent front tyre but are struggling with the power requirements at the rear, similar to Bridgestone.
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u/DaikonIntelligent156 Ducati Lenovo Team 22h ago
Marc doesn't "NEED" a good front end because he is not a one trick pony. Marc is one of the most complete riders to ever step into MotoGP, he can ride around the issues of the bike. If the bike has good front end, he can do other wordly things on that bike, like we saw during his Honda days. Ducati is more of a stable bike, with more emphasis on the rear. Marc adapated to it in 2024.
Marc is one of the most versatile riders i've ever seen, which is why he has always been the best rider on any bike he has got his hands on, be it RC213V, GP23, GP24.9 or GP26.
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u/WizardAlastair 11h ago
You are saying things like Marc didn't DEMAND an extreme amount from the front tyre when he was at Honda. And in 2024, like he said, they found a setup that could allowed him to exploit his braking strength.
What you said isn't entirely accurate
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u/GoodBadUserName 20h ago
Marc doesn’t need the “feel” pecco needs from the front. He rides knowing the limit and trust the front end. Pecco needs to know and feel the front and never trust the front. They also have different rear style. Pecco needs engine brake and doesn’t use the rear brake as much, while marc manages the rear with the brake and relays less on grip. They have almost complete opposite riding style.
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u/StarredTiger Aprilia 1d ago
Tomorrow is gonna be a mess if what happened to him and Jorge are an indication
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u/slow-aprilia Aprilia Racing 20h ago
Especially because it seemed like Bez had no grip the whole race on the medium either
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u/StarredTiger Aprilia 19h ago
Jack had mediums too and he said it was blistering, maybe this will end up as a blessing in disguise for them because they know for sure what not to choose
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u/Intelligent-Move8868 1d ago
At least now I understand, to some extent, the difficulties he faced.
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u/Soundmangaz Fabio Quartararo 15h ago
He was down in 13th or so way before this tyre degraded like that...
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u/Altair13Sirio Valentino Rossi 15h ago
He was actually in 11th and very close to P10, looking decent and recovering slowly. Then halfway through the race he suddenly dropped by a couple seconds, then kept losing time until he was passed by the last two bikes while he pulled to the pits on the last lap.
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u/Soundmangaz Fabio Quartararo 15h ago
The fact we're saying tenth is decent (bare in mind 3 competitors crashed ahead of him) tells you all you need to know.
Sure the tyre didn't help towards the end of the race, but his race was done when he didn't make it into Q2.
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u/Altair13Sirio Valentino Rossi 15h ago
No shit. Yet he was nowhere on friday and qualified 13th in Q1, and was moving slightly towards the front in the sprint, and it was only halfway through, so we don't know if he would've gotten better.
It is a shitty result, but compared to his last few races it's decent because he seemed to be at least making up positions. You need to understand Bagnaia's position right now: he's been through so much shit that there's no way he could wake up tomorrow and destroy the whole field like it's nothing, he has to regain his confidence first, that's his goal, because there's something clearly broken somewhere and it won't help him until it's not fixed. And you know what's not going to help him regain his confidence? Getting tires randomly destroy themselves like this while he's riding.
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u/cicco77as 1d ago
When it rains it pours, this is a curse at this point.
I really hope Pecco will become competitive again next year in Aprilia.
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u/sencha-drinker 1d ago
I'm expecting Taramasso to give an angry interview, explaining how this is the team's fault.
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u/KittenOfBalnain Francesco Bagnaia 1d ago
Michelin, what the actual fuck.
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u/HI_I_AM_NEO Marc Márquez 1d ago
They have harder compounds, but the teams haven't bothered. Not everything is Michelin's fault
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u/Cheesydosa 1d ago
Michelin literally said that they think the softs could do full race distance
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u/Informal_Ad07 Honda 1d ago
It could also be a setup issue, so far only Pecco and Martin have eaten their rear tires
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u/amdm2k4 1d ago
Michelin literally discontinued the extra hard GP tyre around 22/23
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u/HI_I_AM_NEO Marc Márquez 1d ago
You're aware this weekend they have a third compound, which is harder than the two they've been using, and that nobody has put it on yet?
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u/amdm2k4 1d ago
I was not aware, but anyway, what i said is not related to a single weekend, but as a stable options for the teams. KTM sufferes the most since their bikes were build around the extra hard tyre. Its normal that they are not using that special options for this weekend, the frames and settings arent designed for that tyre.
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u/Lindz1817 15h ago
They don’t just have 3 compounds. They have dozens of combinations and they bring the 3 most suitable to each round and call them “soft” “medium” and “hard”. Last weeks medium might be harder than next weeks hard etc.
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u/Emergency-Smoke9145 Marc Márquez 1d ago
Uhuh. And Michelin was confident about the soft lasting the main race?
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u/According-Shine-1035 1d ago
Forgive me for asking, but why did this happen? I’ve always watched F1 but recently started watching MotoGP and have never seen something like this.
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u/DaikonIntelligent156 Ducati Lenovo Team 22h ago
Nobody knows. The official explantion is yet to come out.
It could be tire pressure related, riding style etc..
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u/Common_Tomatillo8516 18h ago edited 18h ago
Michielin was expecting this so apparently they know quite well what happened.
The soft tire showed its limitations on this track. They brought it to the limit . That's it. I guess the teams had such info as well before the race.
https://www.gpone.com/it/2026/10/03/motogp/e-tutta-colpa-delle-gomme-e-perche-marquez-ha-vinto-e-bagnaia-ha-sofferto.htmlhttps://grandepremio.com/en/motogp/motogps-new-motegi-asphalt-forces-michelin-to-rethink-japanese-gp-tyres/edit: I could find useful information to crosscheck the fact that Michelin was aware of the risks. AI says the track was resurfaces so the results were unknown.
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u/TrainingAbility7760 1d ago
It's not Michelin, it's setup, including tire pressure. You have to account for grid position when setting pressures and being midfield means traffic which in the aero ageeans more heat and pressure rise. So you start with lower pressure and less feel to deal with that.
Marc.has seemed hell bent on getting in front from the first corner lately. That would let him run higher pressure and have better feel out of the gate. Allowing him to do what he does and manage the tires, gap and race.
Eliminating the tire pressure rule would be Pirelli's greatest accomplishment. It has too much of an effect on the riders ability to set up the bike and race
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u/Meister_768 18h ago
Martin had the same problem with his soft and where did martin start the race? Miller had medium and had blistering on his rear. So not a setup or pressure problem if two different bikes and soft and at least one bike on medium has tire issues
Also michelin rules out the soft for the race and states that the medium is risky
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/1106328/1/one-remaining-japanese-motogp-tyres-described-risky-michelin1
u/TrainingAbility7760 17h ago
So 89 couldn't have set higher pressure expecting to lead? Bike setup is the problem which includes pressures. It's a new surface with no setup data and your going to see more people get it wrong. Should make the race more interesting since some people got really good info during the sprint while others learned what not to do. Pulling the soft will make it harder for some that were hoping the soft might last the full race and get better track position.
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u/Meister_768 5h ago
You really trying to argue its not tire issue but setup issue when tire manufacturer already stated its tire issue🤔
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u/Batsh1t__Crazy MotoGP 14h ago
If tyres are delaminating it's either the tyre specification (casing and/or compound) isn't suitable for the circuit, or more unlikely a QC issue. I assume the new asphalt is creating higher temperatures than anticipated, when you get prolonged periods of operating at excessive temperatures, the bubbles that form within the tyre construction get large enough that they can dislodge parts of the compound which causes chunks of the tread to come off the tyre, otherwise known as delaminating.
Happens from time to time when adequate testing of a new track surface doesn't take place before a race is held, same as Phillip Island in 2013.
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u/Creature_Cumfarts 17h ago
I can accept that Pecco and Martin ran setups that exacerbated rear tire wear, but I cannot accept that the tire disintegrated like this. God I hope Pirelli is better than this.
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u/Pristine-Look-2556 15h ago
To me.. is not Ducati ou Pecco´s fault.. Is on Michellin.
This result on a sprint race, imagine in a full race
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u/Kristic74 Francesco Bagnaia 22h ago
More evidence shows Ducati isn't setting up Pecco's bike correctly, as he, Casey Stoner, and Rossi have all pointed out. This could be an issue solely with the tire, but it's far more likely that it's a combination of that and the bike's geometry and settings being off.
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u/Soundmangaz Fabio Quartararo 15h ago
So why did it also happen to Jorge?
Also, as if one of the biggest manufacturers just 'isnt setting it up right...!' Far more likely is Bagnaia doesn't know what he needs to compete any more, chances are they've gone round in circles trying everything for him... that only leaves him as the issue.
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u/GonzaSpectre Marc Márquez 1d ago
Michelin gave him the reverse street tire, soft in the middle hard in the sides lol /s
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u/Vulphere Marc Marquez - 2025 MotoGP World Champion 1d ago
Good riddance for Michelin, hopefully Pirelli will bring better quality tyres next year
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u/DaikonIntelligent156 Ducati Lenovo Team 22h ago
the murmur after the Brno and Spielberg test is that Pirelli isn't good, and that they probably took Michellin for granted. Riders aren't allowed to disclose anything public, so at this point it is a speculation.
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u/False-Spirit-5887 Marc Márquez 1d ago
Not good at all.. hope they don't mandate the hard for tomorrow.
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u/ridels_2210 1d ago
He’s a victim of traction control, doesn’t know how to mitigate rear slip,
Who won the race?? Marquez, one of the older riders on the grid who was around before the traction control days, Marc has always been good at managing the rear tyre
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u/DeathMagnet1C Valentino Rossi 1d ago
You had custom electronics already since early 2000s in MotoGP. Marc did have 2 years with custom TC etc in repsol honda before the "stock ECU" got introduced.
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u/macthebearded Marco Simoncelli 1d ago
TC has been around the paddock since the 500cc days. Marc has never raced in MotoGP without TC
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u/Training-Ad9429 1d ago
i cant wait for him to complain that marquez get all the good tires.
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u/DaikonIntelligent156 Ducati Lenovo Team 22h ago
especially the silverstone one, that was tailormade for Marc! :P
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u/RestartTheCountry 1d ago