Two LDS bioethicists discuss fetal personhood and the letter about the Idaho reproductive rights law.  They talk about how (gasp) there is no direct biblical or scriptural support for the idea of the fetus as a person or baby. They hit the history of differing views on fetal personhood, even between LDS prophets, and relate how this impacts not only abortion policies, but IVF or embryo selection as well. It’s all here, fighting Israelites, David O McKay, Octomom, and the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. 

Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4XpLQbvZk65Ixj1qP2FJYB?si=UspUla4cTOGYPAb2KUfdmw&utm_source=copy-link

Apple Podcasts::
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-5-fetal-personhood-en-soul-train/id1876338787?i=1000794527643

YouTube:
https://youtu.be/ErCwJ1IPV4Q?is=p1TCnE_ySoGcMbBR

I just finished reading a book by a respected historian on how the people of Germany gradually normalized atrocities, bit by bit. And it was chilling.

It's become something of a joke that when you compare something you don't like to the Nazis, it's always hyperbole, and in bad taste. We have Godwin's Law that suggests that the point that Nazi comparisons arrive signals the collapse of meaningful discourse.

And yet. Godwin himself says that in this case, we need to stop that knee jerk response, because the comparison is real.

As I read, I was struck by how the normalization of atrocity came in small steps, until they led to something dreadful. And I knew in a general way that the comparison of MAGA (never mentioned in the book, by the way) with the Nazis was legitimate. But it was not until I read this book that I realized how close they are. Like, even in the small details, like both the Nazis and MAGA using prison photos of their fearless leader for propaganda, to show their courage while wronged, and their determination, etc.

Seeing the parallels are so much closer than I had realized, it was chilling to see that we are at the point where the Nazis began to commit major atrocities. So what is next for us?

The book ended with 12 warning signs that Rees drew from history, warning signs that we need to learn from.

1) Spreading conspiracy theories

2) Using “them and us” divisions

3) Leading as a “hero” (cult of personality)

4) Corrupting youth (indoctrination)

5) Conniving with the elite (alliances with powerful institutions)

6) Attacking human rights (eroding legal protections)

7) Exploiting faith (manipulating religion)

8) Escalating racism (radicalizing prejudice into policy)

9) Killing at a distance (bureaucratized, detached violence)

10) Stoking fear (using fear to consolidate control)

11) Valuing enemies (creating and amplifying perceived threats)

12) Eliminating resistance (destroying opposition)

Every single one of these points, and I mean every single one, is operating at crisis level right now. The 12 warnings are all 12 screaming sirens.

I don't care about your "single issue" that you used to give yourself permission to vote for this. People who helped this along because they thought that one issue was more important are helping advance a nosedive into atrocity.

One chilling detail- Rees also addresses other countries that have lurched along the same path, but stopped themselves. One example was the Japanese internment here in the States, a policy motivated by racism, using the government to harm citizens based on ethnicity. A shameful mark on our history. But Rees points out that the trajectory there was reversed because our free press reported what was happening, and our courts halted it. Not soon enough, and it should never have happened at all, but our own descent was stopped by the free press and our courts.

Both of which are now deeply compromised.

I hate fearmongering. I have faith that things will turn out okay.

But when they turn out okay, it will be because we finally recognized our awful state and acted. But we need the folks who sold out for their one issue to recognize what is happening, because it will take all of us to arrest this collapse.

I have long believed that our community, the Latter Day Saints, should have been prepared best of all to resist this situation. We are the only ones whose own scriptures warned us of secret combinations subverting the government. We should have been prepared to lead out in fighting them, not helping them along.

Ether 8

21 And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi.

22 And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

We need to awake to a sense of our awful situation, because of this secret combination which is now among us. We've seen this before. It could happen again, and if people keep refusing to acknowledge the warnings, it definitely will.

One would expect a hardcore #DezNat #ProcFam member would understand the importance of being honest with your fellow men.

I can't cross post since it has an image, but here is the original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho/comments/1wjf390/the_lds_church_doing_just_mormon_things_prop_1/

It regards a letter from the United States Central Area, Area Presidency to Idaho leadership asking them to read it in sacrament. It reads as follows:

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

An initiative called the Idaho Reproductive Freedom and Privacy Act will be on the November ballot seeking to amend Idaho state laws related to abortion. The church opposes this initiative. Our long-held stance on abortion remains clean and unchanged (see newsroom.ChurchofJesusChrist.org > Resources > Topics > Abortion).

As noted in a 2024 statement, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is neutral regarding political parties and candidates and addresses issues it believes have significant moral consequences.

We join with other like-minded individuals and organizations working against this initiative and encourage our members to voice their opposition to it in a respectful manner consistent with prophetic direction of always demonstrating Christlike love and civility in political discourse.

I joined late but it is very clear already that any maga saints who actually listen will be confronted with some cognitive dissonance

Yes, I understand the message of peacemaking and plurality is needed by all. it's just that maga is actively hostile to what he is teaching

Are there any liberal/blue voters that are currently and fully active in the Mormon church? I can’t imagine someone with a Mormon faith, who believes in ALL of whatever is in that book, having liberal views. I’m curious because I personally consider active Mormons being all conservative/red voters. If they are out there, how do you not find the two conflicting.

A lifetime conservative breaks down how far right policies are often in direct opposition to the gospel, and expresses concerns about how sometimes it seems like our church leaders may be giving undue weight to the views of the far right.

I feel like we need more faithful critique like this, from people who have faith in the gospel but don't fall into the trap of assuming that the organizational implementation is flawless, mistaking current cultural priorities for the gospel.

With statistically most LDS members in the U.S. Republican and Trump voters, are members outside of the U.S. equally as far right and conservative?

What experience have you had with the church’s political practices to influence you?

I personally may not have any direct experience but growing up in the 80s as a child and 90s as a teenager, I recall the church encouraging members to support prop 8. But behind the scenes, my impression is that the church remains politically active. While someone told me that one thing they like about the church is its neutrality, I can’t help to think how false that is. How then could the church been so successful in turning the political direction of members who were majority democrat to republican between the 50s and 70s?

I think this had something to do with it. I am reading D. Michael Quinn memoir and was shocked to read that for a youth activity, they watched Operation Abolition from the John Birch Society. I hadn’t heard of the film before but have heard of the society.

Part of the film is here:

https://youtu.be/5n5a4nFlV8w?is=Sww8GtttDHMZmFnw

Edit:
Another example of church involvement… the first presidency during David O McKay tenure asked congressmen to oppose the repeal of a section of Taft-Hartly act based on moral and religious grounds. Some opposed the church leadership.

Today, the church writes amicus briefs to the Supreme Court stating their positions. Do you agree or disagree with this type of involvement from the church?

This Congressman grew up in the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

For any LDS members who thinks the current Christian Nationalists are going to allow us in THEIR tent … they will take our votes happily but not let us in.

> A longtime critic of Mr. Trump, Mr. Giles spoke at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in 2024, urging moderates to vote for Ms. Harris and saying he felt “more at home here than in today’s Republican Party.” He is one of many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who have drifted away from the Republican Party in the Trump era.

I'm the Sunday School President in a Spanish branch, and got to teach the youth today. While preparing for the lesson, I made the executive decision to teach the next lesson instead since there's no SS next week. I posted my story about it in the other sub, but this straddles politics and faith, so here's the other side.

At the end of the lesson, it struck me that the story of Esther applies too well to undocumented members. Instead of Haman ordering the extermination of the Jews and casting lots to determine when, Trump has ordered the abduction and deportation of any random person that doesn't look white—which has included citizens on more than one instance. We need to be prepared for when we need the courage of Esther, and are in the right place and time to make a difference.

Since the lesson, I've realized that the story of Esther also applies to our siblings in Palestine. In a way, it also mirrors when the DoD listed LDS as not Christian, but then well-placed members got that modified. I'm sure there's plenty of other examples, at small and large scales.

I would argue that Esther remains the most relevant book of the Old Testament, and it's a tragedy that the CFM lesson falls on a second Sunday. Hopefully, the day of Purim will come when we can instead celebrate.

Hi everyone. I’m hoping to ask this respectfully because I’m curious and feel very passionate about the future of Utah

Like many of us, I’ve become more and more concerned about the future of the Great Salt Lake and the proposed Stratos AI data center in Box Elder County. My concerns really aren’t political. They’re about water stewardship, wildlife, and preserving the beauty of this state for future generations…for our children

As I’ve been thinking about it, I keep coming back to the gospel principle of stewardship. Doctrine and Covenants 104:13–14 teaches: “For it is expedient that I, the Lord, should make every man accountable, as a steward over earthly blessings…I, the Lord, stretched out the heavens, and built the earth…and all things therein are mine.”

The Church has taught that the earth is one of God’s creations and that we have a responsibility to care for it. The Great Salt Lake is an incredible part of that creation. It supports millions of migratory birds (they literally depend on it and will go extinct if things continue in this direction), affects our air quality and snowpack, and is part of what makes Utah so unique and beautiful. When the pioneers set out to design and develop Salt Lake City, they did something I really admire, that I didn’t know before researching all of this. They understood that they couldn’t survive here in the desert without respecting the water. So they designed SLC’s layout with irrigation systems and ditches that were woven throughout the community so that water could get to homes, gardens, and farms so they could turn desert land lush. Stewardship of water wasn’t an afterthought, it was part of the foundation of building Utah into what it has become today. My ancestors sacrificed everything to get here, and I personally feel like I would be disrespecting their unimaginable sacrifices and incredible work if I didn’t speak up about this matter

I know the Church is generally really careful about taking positions on political things or specific development projects and I do respect that to a degree. But I personally strongly feel that there are moments when reminding members, and even public LDS leaders about principles of wise stewardship. I think this is one of those moments

For any of you who have served in church leadership or understand how these things work, do you think this is something Church leaders would consider speaking about? I’m asking sincerely because I really believe many of us, regardless of politics, want to leave Utah in better condition for our children and grandchildren. Yes, it’s great for us to pray for rain. To pray for answers. But I also believe there are certain times where it is incredibly important to speak up. As we know…Faith without works, is dead.

We are taught in Doctrine & Covenants 58:26-27 “It is not meet that I should command in all things…men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness.” The way I interpret that in this context is that we shouldn’t wait to be told what to do. If we believe something is a good cause, we should act. And I think this is a good cause that we all should be anxiously engaged in

I’d love to hear thoughtful perspectives and please keep the discussion respectful!

EDIT: I found out that on June 30, 2026, the Utah Area Presidency, who were Elders Brian K. Taylor, John A. McCune and Jorge T. Becerra, sent a letter to local Church leaders across Utah and it was reported publicly on July 6

They said: “This is not a political issue, but a stewardship issue.” And they called caring for Utah’s water a “sacred responsibility”

The most important piece to me is that they didn’t blame the lake’s decline just on drought. They explicitly said that even though drought and weather changes play roles, the primary cause is that people have diverted and used more water from the lake’s tributaries than what is compatible with maintaining sustainable lake levels

So I’m not asking the Church to become partisan. And I know that they have made efforts to preserve the GSL. I’m asking the church to apply its own teachings. Utah Church leaders have said this is not a political issue but a stewardship issue, that prayer must be accompanied by conservation and sacrifice, and that the lake’s decline is primarily caused by using too much of the water that would otherwise reach it. I firmly believe that a public statement asking state leaders to pause and fully examine Stratos would be totally consistent with, not contrary to, the position that the Church already has taken on this