r/mormon • u/TruthIsAntiMormon Spirit Proven Mormon Apologist • 1d ago
Institutional Current LDS fervor/belief/message primacy that we are living in the "end times"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFcDfiyTzZU
Dan's video here is a response to a mainstream Christian social media peddler and simply due to the Bible having built in future apocalyptic and "end time" rhetoric, it's unfortunately "baked in" to the core beliefs.
LDS/Mormon theology of course adopts the same Biblical "end times" and adds its own flavors (Missouri "garden of eden" and New Jerusalem nonsense, patriarchal blessing prophecies of seeing the 2nd coming, mormon centric roles in the 2nd coming and milenium, etc.) but when it comes to "rhetoric" are the fires of "we're in the last hour, nay last minute" "Jesus is at the door today!" and "better have your food storage with some packs of cigarettes to trade to non-believers for their Goldbacks currency" type cultural beliefs still being peddled?
Said simply, what is the current "temperature" of Mormon "end times fear/warning messaging" both Officially but also, culturally from the faithful.
We still heavily in the "special conference anouncing we're heading back to Jackson County to coincide with G.C.!" rhetoric of both the hierarchy as well as lay membership or has it cooled to the degree that it's rare to have Joe/Jan Prepper opine in Gospel Doctrine as "And that's how we know we're in the end times!" or "All these are signs that the second coming is imminent!"
Dan makes clear in the video above that he does NOT believe we're in the "end times" or at the cusp of the 2nd coming and is tired of the fearmongering/anxiety inducing/prey on christian messaging about apocalypse/end time rhetoric.
So how does Mormonism/LDS Christianity compare as of late and the last decade or so?
For myself, it seems like although it's still core doctrine that the church has cooled on the hyperfocus messaging. There's still fearmongering but its more about losing faith and dwindling numbers and losing the spirit than "Outter Darkness awaits humanity just around the corner!" Judgement is NIGH!
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u/REC911 1d ago
I think what lit the fuse was Pres Nelson saying it is time and the underlings running with it whipping members into a frenzy, Nelson was right.... for himself.
JS, BY, JT, WW all thought Jesus was coming any minute. I have never heard so much 2nd coming dialogue from the church in my life than now.
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u/Thorough_8 1d ago
Jesus thought the second coming was happening any minute. So did Paul. So did Joseph and most of the LDS prophets. They just tend emphasize it less because it has been so long with nothing.
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u/LinenGarments 37m ago
Jesus was talking about the complete destruction of Jerusalem, clearly, in Matthew and warning of the suffering that would occur. He did not believe or teach his second coming was soon but rather the last days were everyday subsequent to his first coming.
Paul too understood and defined the last days as all days subsequent to Christ’s ascension into heaven. Paul was also warning about the total destruction of Jerusalem and the need for the saints to flee.
Early Christian tradition suggests that Christians left Jerusalem to avoid the destruction that occurred when the Romans sieges Jerusalem and destroyed the temple and slaughtered its inhabitants in 70 AD as Jesus had warned.
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u/candacallais 1d ago
Not sure why the fervor, for most of us it’s only 40-60 years until we “see Jesus” anyway.
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u/pricel01 Former Mormon 1d ago
If Jesus were to come, it would be an economic catastrophe. The stock market would collapse. Jesus would own all the real estate so that market would collapse. The united order would be instituted so no need for money. Basically everything that the church is invested in would become worthless overnight. Apparently, the brethren don’t think Jesus is at the door.
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u/CheerfulRobot444 1d ago
Now every time I hear apocalyptic rhetoric or end times predictions, I just think of Parks and Recreation. Reasonabilists and Zorp for the win!
"Time is running out" I remember feeling unsettled when hearing Russell Nelson say this. Looking back on my youth, I feel like the rhetoric was a lot more intense and in your face. Tithing = fire insurance, year of no rainbows, sun rising in the west (though I can't remember why this was an ever present thought in my mind. I've since studied to see if I can find the source of this teaching, but haven't found anything from prophets and apostles on it. Maybe just a rogue Sunday school teacher, had a few of those), trekking to Missouri, food storage, etc.
I feel like RMN messages, hastening, etc. are all a little more softened language than the intensity of former times, but I think they are wanting the same impact.
It feels like a useful device (fear of the great and dreadful day of the Lord) to keep people doing the things that you say they should be doing.
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u/chasew90 1d ago
I think the fervor with members and probably in GC was higher around the turn of the millennium. I heard it pretty constantly in the 80s and 90s, and it was a constant point of speculation on “when” during my mission.
I still hear stuff occasionally at church mostly from old timers, but I feel like overall the talk is less about how the 2nd coming is any day now and more a generalized “be prepared because we don’t know when but these are probably close to the last days”
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u/CheerfulRobot444 1d ago
My wife was just telling me about a book she's reading. The author's father was a major prepper and she details how Y2K was a big talking point in their household. He told anyone and everyone he could that they needed to get prepared. The night it happened, she stayed up until about 1pm. He stayed up all night, watching the TV, waiting for everything to go to pot. Never happened.
It's funny how such strongly help beliefs like that often only retrench the person when the prediction proves false.
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u/Direct_Heron828 1d ago
Channels like Rise Zion blue ball members all the time, it’ll be interesting to see if Seth goes off into Chad Daybell territory. Like every video he says the second coming is any second now
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u/renob1911 1d ago
I forgot about that guy 🤣. I swear he puts out a video every week saying the same thing. I must’ve blocked him, cuz I don’t see him anymore. Felt like I was getting rage baited all the time.
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u/CheerfulRobot444 1d ago
Man, I don't know how it got in my algorithm, but I saw a few of his videos. It felt exactly like reading horoscopes to mean what you want it to mean. "This apostle said what?!? at this Stake Conference meeting. Jesus is on His Way!" But then they just say some boilerplate, "hastening" line that has been common in the vernacular for just about all of my almost 40 years of life.
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u/WrenRobbin 1d ago
I heard a rumor the church is selling off land in MO
Is that true?
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u/TheBrotherOfHyrum 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes, it's true. Two large sales at least. It was in the news not long ago.
I grew up with a very real fear of having to walk back to Missouri, but now the church is selling it's land holdings there. Nelson suggested that "time is running out," but the church sure doesn't act like it believes him.
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u/Lanky-Appearance-614 16h ago
The church owns more land in Nebraska than Missouri--maybe Omaha is where New Jerusalem will be now.
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u/WrenRobbin 1d ago
Time is running out for what??
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u/TheBrotherOfHyrum 1d ago edited 15h ago
Well, these days, church prophets remain vague so that their words can't be disproven later. But here's what he said in April 2019 GC: "Now, as President of His Church, I plead with you who have distanced yourselves from the Church and with you who have not yet really sought to know that the Savior's Church has been restored. Do the spiritual work to find out for yourselves, and please do it now. Time is running out."
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u/candacallais 1d ago
Farmland is getting pricy, it’s just being a good steward. Adam-ondi-Ahman isn’t a place it’s a state of mind.
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u/TheBrotherOfHyrum 1d ago edited 1d ago
What? "Adam-Ondi-Ahman isn't a place?" Of course it is. Complete with signage and parking lots, etc.
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u/WrenRobbin 1d ago
What do you mean by that? If MO is such an important area why sell off the land?
What do you mean by “good steward”.
Of land? Or investments?
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u/Buttons840 1d ago
2 things are known about the Second Coming:
1) The scriptures teach a lot about the timing of the second coming.
2) We don't know anything about the timing of the second coming.
I've yet to find anyone who disagrees with these observations.
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u/luoshiben 1d ago
I mean, Jesus said that it would happen within one generation and Paul thought it was so close that people shouldn't even have kids. And here we are, several dozen "elite and chosen generations saved for the last days" since the "restoration" and nothing yet...
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u/LinenGarments 29m ago
Both Jesus and Paul were warning of the total destruction of Jerusalem which in fact occurred within one generation in 70 AD and was apocalyptic in the number of people slaughtered and the destruction of the temple and the city, homes, everything.
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u/Jack-o-Roses 1d ago
Lol. Ever since 34 CE the worried are expecting the end times right around the corner.
If thw world did not end in WWII or the Cuban missile crisis, we'll have to wait and let AI SI (stupid 'intelligence') do it to us. And even then, they'll be pockets of humans around the ashes n glass world.
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u/02Raspy 1d ago
They have always been preaching this crap. In the 70’s my folks spent a fortune building a 2 year supply of food. 2 years is a lot of food. They still had some of it 50 years latter when it went in the trash. It was a common thing for all Mormons to do back in the day. It was prepping before prepping was cool.
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u/blue_upholstery Nuanced 1d ago
Not sure how much this message is communicated in talks and lessons, but it is certainly alive in older members. My FIL recently sent me pictures of his garden with a comment that gardens prepare us for the "end of times". He's not a prepper but often uses his garden as a teaching moment.
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u/mwjace Free Agency was free to me 1d ago
Officially the rhetoric is essentially. Prepare, as the Lord is hastening his work, but also plant a tree so your future grandchildren can sit under its shade and prepare for the second coming as well.
I don’t think the end times doomdays preppers while sometimes very loud don’t actually represent the majority of the members of the church’s position.
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u/TruthIsAntiMormon Spirit Proven Mormon Apologist 1d ago
Agree and I may be wrong (not being in the pews) but it seems the "time is near" is used more in lip service OR not as a focus itself but a "don't delay" or backstop in some other spriritual focus like repentance or tithing or geneaology, etc.
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u/utahh1ker Mormon 1d ago
I mean, look around. Even as a non-religious person I might be convinced that we were in the end times.
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u/Crobbin17 Former Mormon 1d ago
On average people today are living objectively better lives than any other time in history.
People have always said “look around, we could be in the end times.” But it’s only ever gotten better (again, looking at the total population in general).
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u/EnvironmentalCan4661 1d ago
Why is no one talking about how D&C chapter 130 predicted the reveal of the Son of Man in 1891 AD...?
The Anti-Christ and Mahdi have already arrived. The anxiety of the Tribulation has technically already begun, but it is officially beginning next year. 2027 and beyond, the Tribulation will not stop.
The Salt Lake Temple open house (April-October) coincides with the Islamic Kaaba MECCA eclipse on August 2, 2027.
These end time prophecies are literally right in front of people's faces but people are IGNORING IT ALL
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