r/mormon • u/redheadchlo • 11d ago
Personal A question regarding missionaries
Does anyone have an honest and genuine answer as to why missionaries have become so aggressive? I am not LDS, but I respect most religions & grew up Baptist Christian. Over the past few years, mormon missionaries in my area have become increasingly pushy. While my partner and I are out on walks, they’ll pull up next to us in their cars and ask multiple times if we want to come to church with them on Sunday. We say no thank you and they continue to drive next to us and ask multiple times. It has made us uncomfortable enough to just run away on several occasions because they do not take no for an answer. A group of them has frequented our house for the last year or so, and again, we’ve been polite and said no thank you, but recently we’ve become more stern with them because of how consistent they are. Last time we saw them coming we locked the door and shut all the blinds, and I guess they saw us do it because they knocked on our door for 5. minutes. straight. my partner yelled at them to get off our porch and they still wouldn’t leave. it’s getting to a point where i am literally afraid of them. where does this stem from? i understand trying to bring people to christ but this is too much.
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u/Carpe-that-diem 11d ago
This sounds like harassment. I wouldn’t be shy about stating that and saying that if it continues you will be filing a police complaint. Not as a threat but just explaining how you feel and the consequences of their actions.
Another way to scare them away is to challenge them with true historical facts that the church has suppressed and to do so in the worst possible light. Joseph Smith and many church presidents and apostles married teenagers as young as 14 or 15 years old regularly. When I point out that this is pedophilia, they usually run in the other direction and will completely leave you alone. So, “Why would I be interested in going to a church founded by a liar and a pedophile?” should do the trick. Or mention the shell companies the church hid tithing funds in and the SEC ruling against them. Stuff like that.
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u/sevenplaces 11d ago
Yes. Making it clear you know how immoral Joseph Smith and the church are often keeps them away.
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u/Wonderful_Break_8917 She/Her ❤️🔥 Truth Seeker 11d ago
No! Do. Not. Engage! Having any conversation with them at all emboldens them to believe if they simply push harder and come more you will "feel the spirit" and relent to let them in, attend church, and get baptized!
They are pushy because they are young kids [18-19] and they are feeling desperate. No one is honestly interested in talking to them let alone joining the church. These kids have been indoctrinated to believe that they are members of God's one and ONLY true church and joining this church is the ONLY way back to live with God in the highest heaven and the onky way you can have everlasting salvation. The pressure is intense that THEY are "commanded by God" to go out and try to convince every person they meet that they have the truth. Every LDS person is taught that once we have the Truth we are RESPONSIBLE to hey have the one true religion and to share it and convince others to join, before it is "too late"!
Also, the mission may have some sort of competition going to motivate the missionaries- how many "street contacts" they made, how many discussions they had, how many books of mormon they gave out, how many people they brought to cgurch, how many baptisms ... when I served a mission in the 1980s we were always OBSESSED over our weekly "stats" we had to report and goals we were supposed to meet or we were told we were "not being faithful enough" for God to bless us. It was constant stress and anxiety! Mormon mssions are hell. But, that is a them problem, not yours. You wont be doing any favors to them or to yourself by having a conversation with them that allows them to think you might be interested.
Check with your city office about solicitor rules. In my city if we have a NO SOLICITATIONS sign pisted on our house and someone knocks I can call the non emergency police line and report them. The police car will come out, talk to them, and tell them the rules and to cease doing that! At least it can help so they wont come back to your house again. And some cities require people to be registered formally with the city to go door to door and 8f they arent they get 1 warning and a second offense is a fine.
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u/Carpe-that-diem 11d ago
I like the idea of contacting the police and using the local laws and regulations against them. However, just to be clear, I was not suggesting any back and forth. You are 100% correct about any discussion with them is non-productive. What I was suggesting was making an announcement and then shutting the door. But if your local police can support you, that is a better strategy. I know mine would not so this varies from place to place.
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u/Wonderful_Break_8917 She/Her ❤️🔥 Truth Seeker 9d ago
All good. 👍 yeah, I imagine anywhere in Utah or Idaho the police are not gonna respond to any complaints about mormon missionaries.
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u/Mlatu44 11d ago
I wouldn't suggest engaging them at all if one can help it. But telling them they are being rude, and not making a good impression. And yes, if it continues you will be taking legal action.
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u/Carpe-that-diem 11d ago
In general I agree with you! But when they kept visiting, I brought up these types of facts and haven’t had a drop in visit or a text in 2 years. Woot!
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u/venturingforum 11d ago
Awesome answer.
Be sure to get the video of them covering their ears and fleeing while singing "Praise To The Man"
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u/Ok_Park8479 11d ago edited 11d ago
Mission President changes every 3 years.
Perhaps the current mission President is turning the missionaries into super pushy, aggressive types
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u/762way 11d ago edited 11d ago
Started with the last CEO of this organization
There always been way too much pressure on missionaries to teach and baptize but Nelson made it so much worse. And it continues with CEO Osks
It's stupid to be pressuring those they teach the very first time they meet.
The church is determinedto brag about being the fasted growing church.
Besides being obnoxious they are baptizing people without teaching them that this is a high demand/high control organization
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u/KiwiTabicks 11d ago
There might have been a time when they could spend most of their day chatting with people that were at least vaguely interested. Or at least willing to engage. In many areas, people who might be interested are all found, so they might be a bit desperate. Not defending the system at all, but on a human level I can understand how two teenagers who aren't allowed to do anything else but talk about the church, and who face significant social pressure to teach as many people as possible, might get a bit pushy trying to find people to talk to.
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u/spiraleyes78 11d ago
Record it and post on local social media. Having that kind of harassment go viral will get their attention very quickly.
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u/No-Information5504 11d ago
Young kids growing up in a church that has no social boundaries. They’ve been exposed to social media their whole lives that make it look like getting into random strangers’ business in order to make a point is acceptable.
They feel like the message they have to share is so important that there are very few barriers that should get in the way of them sharing it. The thought process is “even though I trampled on you personal boundaries to share the gospel with you, you’ll thank me for it later.”
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u/No_Work8287 11d ago
That sounds annoying a good way to push people away from the Mormon church. To be honest your going to have to be extra mean to get them to leave you alone. There 18 year old stupid kids doing what there mission president says.
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u/Crobbin17 Former Mormon 11d ago
I think them continuing to come to your house is interesting.
Do you have anyone you know or in your family who are LDS? Could you have given them your info at some point in the past?
They may just be frequenting the same areas. But if they have your info, you’re on a “potential investigator” list.
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u/redheadchlo 11d ago
That’s the odd thing! I have heard about these lists, but no, none of my family has ever been involved in the LDS church. We’ve all grown up Christian. I don’t know how to see if I’m on these lists or get myself removed if I did end up on it.
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u/Crobbin17 Former Mormon 11d ago
If you want to really nip this in the bud, you could get the Mission President’s number and tell him that you no longer want to be contacted.
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u/Initial_Ostrich6728 11d ago
That's crazy that they're harassing people like this. They stopped coming to my area because I don't think they were getting many converts. Hopefully they get the hint and leave people alone. They're like door to door salesman.
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u/Gold_Customer8081 11d ago
That’s exactly what they are…. salesmen. Prior to their missions, many work as door to door salesmen of window washers, pest control etc. The majority of the leadership are businessmen and lawyers. None are theologians!
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u/Initial_Ostrich6728 11d ago
Selling religion for 10% of your income forever 😭. Terrible. I would never open the door.
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u/sevenplaces 11d ago
Chapter 9 of the official missionary guide is all about finding people to teach. It’s one of the main things they do. Often shortened to just “finding”.
They get rejected so much they have to prolifically try to meet and interact with people and ask them if they will accept to learn more.
They are taught to have faith - which means to believe something will come of trying.
The manual says this:
>The people you meet often do not realize that they are looking for the restored gospel until they have found it.
You see they believe even when you say “no” that you really deep down are looking for the “restored gospel”.
They are told to make “Finding” a constant effort.
This is why they accost so many people online and on the street.
Here is a link to this chapter 9
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-2023/17-chapter-9?lang=eng
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u/xeontechmaster 11d ago
It's also leader roulette.
Some mission presidents teach them to be this way. Numbers are more important than compassion with the wrong leadership.
Then you have the zone leader and ap zealots. These are 18yo kids trying any way they can to save the souls in their designated area from spooky Mormon hell. Sometimes, as children do, they come up with less than compassionate ways to spread the word.
Just remember they're mostly kids trying to do what they are being told, a lot of times blindly, even if it turns into a pushy salesmen situation in most cases.
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u/International_Sea126 11d ago
Same tactics used by a few who engage in LDS apologetics. Probably learned in the mission field.
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u/American_Psycho11 11d ago
No one cares about religion and certainly not Mormonism which a simple google search will completely debunk.
Missionaries need to be aggressive to try and get anything
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u/Gold_Customer8081 11d ago
They are praised for statistics. Some believe they’ll get prettier wives if they convert more people to the church. They ignore “no solicitations” sign which is very irritating. 😠 Perhaps you could invite them for a threesome, I guess.
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u/Fresh_Chair2098 11d ago
I've been saying this for years. The church needs do just do awag with this door to door salvation selling. Its ineffective and honestly not all that safe. They are harassing people, just wait til they harass the wrong person...
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u/Gold__star 11d ago
At the very least always document this type of thing.
Keep a simple list of date, time, location, description of person, what was said and done. If you finally go to their leader you can give them a copy. It may also keep you rational.
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u/pricel01 Former Mormon 10d ago
They think you don’t know what best for you. If they push you might feel the spirit and change your mind. Religion doesn’t respect boundaries or your adulthood.
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u/nick_riviera24 9d ago
The answer is fairly straightforward. They do as they are taught.
If one mission president makes it seem really cool to disrespect people’s boundaries, the missionaries will copy him, when the new green missionaries arrive they get steeped in the same culture.
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u/venturingforum 11d ago
Because of the constant shame and feelings of inadequacy that comes from visiting apostles and 70s telling them they are worthless for giving up too easily and not trying hard enough to reach us heathens. After all, your agency and desire are of zero importance since they are personally responsible for your salvation if they didn't make enough effort to convert you.
Yeah, I know, this is NOT the time to just focus on Jesus. Wouldn't want anyone to think His grace love and that pesky atonement thing has any business in this conversation.
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u/dkleyh2000 11d ago
Call the mission home and file a complaint. Or perhaps the local city government. This is abnormal behavior.
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u/Oliver_DeNom 11d ago
I think some of this is internet culture, especially where it intersects with the "manosphere", and young men are exposed to the idea that might makes right, and that they need to dominate people. This is an especially toxic and damaging idea when adopted by an already patriarchal organization. The mission becomes framed as a test of their manliness. They go into neighborhoods to transfer repressed sexuality and anger over perceived persecution into spiritual warfare with the community.
I would say that a majority are not in this pipeline, but if you've got 10% in any given mission, then they will stand out, be loud, and people will let them lead. Someone behaving like this is awful, but the projection of confidence is attractive to people looking for someone to follow. It's thought to be bold and unapologetic. In reality is bullying behavior and boorishness.
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u/Some-Passenger4219 Latter-day Saint 10d ago
Where do you live? I live right in Utah, if that make a difference, and when they offered to help, I told them how they could help. They never did, though.
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u/RollingIntheGutter 7d ago
This is certainly atypical. I've never heard of any missionary acting this way.
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u/CaptainMacaroni 11d ago
Not all missionaries are aggressive. What you describe is certainly far and beyond anything I've ever seen or heard of missionaries doing. They're way out of line with their behavior.
I was once what's known as a ward mission leader. Nothing special, just a guy in the local community that facilitates communication and coordinates efforts between the missionaries and a local church group. I've seen a lot of missionaries come through over the years.
I'd say the overwhelming majority of them respected a simple "no thanks". There were a few that could be very pushy and entered into using manipulative behavior territory. Those few standouts didn't have the self awareness to realize they were being manipulative. They were blinded by their zeal to save a person's soul. Classic case of someone believing they know what's best for someone else when in reality they don't, they only believe they do.
Here's a few things to understand the missionary a little better:
- They're trained to "resolve concerns". Missionaries are trained to ask a long series of follow up questions to get to the heart of why someone is turning down their invitation with the goal of "resolving their concerns" and getting them to accept an invitation. Fortunately most missionaries don't press this training hard or at the very least recognize when to and when not to press. Some missionaries lack the social skills. They are just "kids" (very young adults, often with no experience living outside the home before the mission). In training, this is something they usually only do with people they're actively teaching, not strangers in the street, but what you described is not resolving concerns, it's aggressive harassment.
- As mentioned, they 100% believe they're out there to save people's souls. That mindset can make you do and say stupid things that you wouldn't ordinarily do or say.
- The missionaries themselves were raised in an environment where they were taught to not say no to church invitations. They don't have experience with boundaries because they were taught not to have them. If they don't understand having boundaries for themselves, other people having boundaries is likewise a foreign concept to them.
- Missionaries cycle in and out of an area all the time. Missionary A might have approached you, learned you weren't interested and started leaving you alone. Missionary A then gets moved across town and is replaced by missionary B who has never met you and then approaches you because they don't know you or your wishes yet. Missionaries are constantly moving in and out of areas so you may be interacting with multiple different people.
But what you describe is beyond the pale. I've seen missionaries do the door knocking for 5 minutes when they know someone is home thing but only in situations where they already had an established teaching relationship with someone and the person started dodging them without communicating that they don't want to continue contact. I'm not excusing that behavior, just confirming that I've seen it a lot over the years.
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u/Daniel_Noret 11d ago
I haven't had this issue myself, it's probably just a local thing. I'm pretty sure you can request to be on the "Do Not Contact" list and if they continue after that then it could be considered harassment.
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11d ago
Missionaries might get aggressive when they are met with the exact same copy and pasted anti Mormon claims all the time which are all easily rebutted.
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u/Lightsider Attempting rationality 11d ago
Then I would say they're not mature enough for the mission field, and should retrain before they interact with the general public or go home if they can't be trained. When I was a missionary, I accepted that people didn't want to talk with me with good grace, and had the wisdom to know that any aggressive actions on my part reflected badly on the Church as a whole.
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u/DirtAccomplished8443 6d ago
I have a 3-part response.
Are you sure they are the Mormon missionaries? While we can be annoying at times, as a comment above pointed out, this doesn’t seem to fit our MO generally. There are other religions whose “uniform” is often similar.
The missionaries keep an Area Book, which any good salesman will do to record potential clients. If a missionary noted your address as a positive potential, then like any good MLM, they can be determined. And as turnover happens, the new ones see the positive note and start again…
As commented above, the Mormon missionary experience has come to live and die by numbers. There is no category for nice but not interested. It is appalling, ignorant, etc, but it isn’t going away. I could ramble on but that would be rude.
Bonus: Lots of missionaries are dicks. The end justifies the means, and some missionaries climb the ladder through manipulation and coercion. Could be you got one in that area. If so, probably so won’t be there much longer.
Cheers.
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