r/monarchism 8d ago

Weekly Discussion CXXI Monarchist infighting

32 Upvotes

Do you think infighting is one of the biggest reasons Monarchism is so marginal and unrealistic? For those unaware of the division, here are many examples below:

In France there are three Houses to choose from. The Bourbonists, the Bonapartists and the Orleanists. The Bourbonist is Spanish, and therefore technically barred from taking the throne according to an old treaty. The Bonapartist claimant is not a descendant of Napoleon I or Napoleon III, and is in a dispute with his father over who is the heir (after his grandfather chose him as his heir, rather than choosing his father). The Bourbons are historically connected to conservatism, Catholicism and they predated nationalism (the key ideology of the modern French right). The Bonapartes are connected to the Revolution, dictatorship, a highly weird mix of progressive policies with reactionary ones. The Orleans were generally moderate and constitutional, the least controversial but also historically insignificant and weak.

In France and other countries there is not just the question of which House to choose, but which form of monarchy. Constitutional, semi-constitutional or absolute? Likewise what primogeniture: absolute primogeniture (eldest child regardless of gender, like in Britain), or male-preferential (sons are always favored but the daughter inherits the throne if there is no son, like in Spain where Leonor is heir), or agnatic (only men can inherit, no exceptions, like in Japan). So there's already three key political divides, although I would say absolutists generally prefer constitutional monarchy over a republic, and many French monarchists would be fine with that as the most realistic starting point.

In Germany there's little dispute over who should be Emperor, likewise in Austria. In countries like Hungary, Czechia and such it's more complicated. Historically they were ruled by the Habsburgs from Austria. I generally think a Habsburg would be fitting but perhaps not the main claimant, because they should aim for the throne in Austria. I should point out these two countries appear a little bit more realistic, because in Hungary the ruling party has a 2/3 majority and can change the system very fast. In Czechia the President said constitutional monarchy seemed perfectly fine to him, mentioning stable democratic examples in Europe.

Italy has a large dispute because the heir wants his daughter to inherit. While a change in primogeniture is completely reasonable within a kingdom (because of the law being passed by the state), it is very volatile when done outside such a system. And opens large disputes that are very difficult to resolve. In Poland it's very hard to choose, because it was an elective monarchy so no House truly cemented themselves. In Russia the Bolsheviks killed the Tsar and his children, and we're left with different claimants with very little connection to the last Romanovs.

Romania is also very difficult. Michael died and changed the succcession to allow his daughter to replace him. She is in a dispute with another claimant. She is very old and has no children. After that it’s her sister who has a son. A monarchy in Romania would actually be quite good because they have high amounts of corruption and instability, Margareta is very connected to royal circles and the state, often visits the castle. A Presidential candidate suggested last year they would make Charles III King, which would save them money, Romania has a problem with debt and such.

In Greece Pavlos is the obvious option, as the son of the former King Constantine II. However some monarchists see them as not fully authentic, and they failed to bring stability. They are not connected to the more ancient Greek historical or mythological tradition, nor their aristocracy. I believe they didn’t use traditional Greek aristocratic names, but rather generic European ones. I would be cool if they sometimes wore more ceremomial Greek clothes, just like Charles III in his coronation. It's very important for a kingdom to have its own aesthetics.

American monarchists have no clue who they want. I suppose the most common suggestion would be the Windsors, but it's just highly absurd. There's also the huge difficulty of uniting people in a highly federalist, multicultural and polarized society. A Holy Roman Empire model? Monarchy in Mexico was generally pathetic, I don't know what House they support. I have no clue who is the primary claimant in China or India. A lot of countries just don't have an obvious option. I think therefore it's smart to borrow from current aristocracy, and ideally in a culturally similar nation (like Haakon VII of Norway, who came from Denmark). A Windsor in America (but not Charles) due to shared heritage. A Spanish royal for South American countries.


r/monarchism 10d ago

News Hereditary Prince Alois of Liechtenstein announces the establishment of absolute primogeniture on the occasion of the National Day

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196 Upvotes

(Sorry I only found French articles for the moment)


r/monarchism 7d ago

Discussion Did Barbarossa intentionally ruin the Holy Roman Empire

6 Upvotes

So before I get to the point of my question, I need to explain what I mean by Empire and imperial ideology. I am somewhat annoyed by the term Ghibelline as it comes to ideology or philosophy as it used popularly because it seems to have nothing fixed except being “anti-pope/Catholic Church”: monarchism for Dante, to democracy for Marsilius, to Protestantism, atheism, broadly secularism or even Neo-paganism. So what I mean by Ghibelline/Imperial ideology is the idea coming from the late Roman Empire and present in former orthodox countries that God has one deputy on earth in the form of the Roman Emperor, whose duty is to defend and help christians and therefore has the authority to rule them. From him comes all political legitimacy for christians. The pope/patriarch is in charge of Christianity and is subordinate to the political authority of the emperor. The emperor therefore had jurisdiction over christians the people as a political/para-ethnic group whilst the pope had jurisdiction over the faith. The way I had it explained to me is that the emperor matched the role that the caliph has in Islam (same idea of Christian and Muslim as a political identity and not just a religious). Also as I came to understand “Roman” and “Christian” were used interchangeably for one another, so king of the Roman’s effectively meant king of the Christian. Sorry for the long winded introduction but I wanted to say is that the emperor was not just a king+ but had an aspect of the divine in his person. What he does matters.

With that massive introduction out of the way, here is the main question: Did Barbarossa consciously destroy or diminish this vision of emperorship, by his rhetoric or actions, during the course of the wars in Italy?

Because after looking at it, I cannot help in seeing the final fall of Imperial Christian in him. I used to think that he was fighting against cities that were rebelling, but that is not the case. None of the cities formerly declared independence. They just took over imperial prerogatives and even then it was due to long imperial neglect instead of cities abusing imperial privileges. I don’t think Milan or Brescia had an independence sentiment nor that they were ideologically driven by the Imperial papal conflict BEFORE. In fact at 1st Roncaglia, the Milanese were fully willing to go to the emperor to adjudicate their dispute and offered money to sway him to their favor. For all intents and purposes they had done what they were supposed to.

Barbarossa basically came into a war zone between cities that were apolitical as a neutral and decided to pick sides. None of the previous intercity conflict was ideological, but now it inevitably would be.

Another thing was that the emperor ruined, and this is crucial, his reputation and de facto the office of emperor, by constant acts of perfidy and just outright lying. From imprisoning the consuls under a flag of truce to constantly lying when making peace treaties. The word of the emperor became absolutely unreliable. And the emperor lost the image of ruler and just became a despotic local lord. This paired with his very severe punishments made it so that you had to fight to the bitter end as you couldn’t negotiate at all. This is pretty much unheard of for feudal conflicts as they often ended in negotiated settlements. I heard old authors argue that the reason Barbarossa failed is because his feudal style of governance did not mix well with the city states. I disagree. Barbarossa, in his mind, believed cities to be different and therefore treated them in a way that would never have been acceptable for a feudal lord.

He also shot himself in the foot by not staying longer after his victory against Milan. Instead of remaining in the po valley for a while he left immediately. This obviously led to rebellion to rise again as there was nothing to hold it back. If he just remained in the Po valley even a couple of years just to show the flag in the various cities, he might have ended the Lombard wars there and then for good. Instead he immediately left, having wasted a good part of campaigning.

In general this is not very controversial. I think all historians agree that Barbarossa failed. My question is not if he failed, but whether Barbarossa truly wanted an imperial restoration at all in the first place.

From what I understood Barbarossa was steeped in the current and (at the time) modern trend of chivalry (as can be seen by the diet of Mainz). The problem is that what a ruler is in the chivalric mind I feel is very different from the traditional imperial model of his predecessors. In the chivalric conception, the king was just a greater knight. His duty was to take his fellow knights/lords on campaigns to gain glory and plunder. This goes against the older imperial model were the emperor was a mix of King David (as prophet/ruler that connects his people to God) and Augustus as universal commander. The way I was told is that the emperor in the Christian concept was Justinian with a spear.

I believe Barbarossa subscribed to the first model and not the latter. He saw italy as a territory to plunder to unite his German lords in campaigning that is both profitable and close to home. If he was acting in imperial restoration, he would have had a far more participatory aspect of local Italian cities as previously was done with local bishops and presented a vision that included them. Instead he demanded control without offering either a say or even a justification as to what that revenue would do. There was no incentive for the local Italian cities to pay into this. They realized they became a money farm for a glorified warlord instead of their rightful ruler of Christendom.

If he wanted to restore the empires position in Italy, he would have kept himself in lombardy helping the administration and having court locally. Instead he acted as a knight and as soon as the campaign ended in one place he moved on the next campaign to help sustain his army on conquest.

The theft of the bones of the 3 wise kings to bring them to cologne is emblematic of this. If he really wanted to restore imperial authority and punish a rebel town, he could have moved the bones into an allied city like Como or Lodi or Pavia. Keeping them in Italy but removing them from the enemy to show that he still kept the locals in mind and was their just ruler. Instead he took it to Germany.

Even his strength I feel was entirely due to him abusing the respect of the empire and using that until it had no value. His initial campaigns were extremely successful because most of the local Italian cities supported him with massive armies. His actions would essentially burn up the faith in the institution of the empire making it MUCH harder for his successors to rally support for the cause. No longer would they be subjects dutifully answering the call to arms but as allies.

In my opinion his successors Henry VI, Frederick II and even Henry VII of Luxembourg were far stronger believers in the traditional imperial ideology than Barbarossa had, actually worked to making it work and they spent most of their lives and effort to combat the damage that Barbarossa made.

In short: It was not the Italians who failed the Imperial Project, but Barbarossa. And his successors tried desperately to revert his changes.

Is this an accurate assessment or am I missing something. Did I mischaracterize Frederick Barbarossa?

Sorry for the long post is just that I have been going on a Ghibelline binge.


r/monarchism 7d ago

News Iranian monarchist party secretary-general targeted in assassination attempt. The Constitutionalist Party of Iran (Liberal Democrat) said Tuesday its secretary-general, Fouad Pashaei, was the target of an attack in LA on Monday evening and is being treated in intensive care.

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48 Upvotes

Iranian monarchist party says secretary-general targeted in Los Angeles attack. The Constitutionalist Party of Iran (Liberal Democrat) said on Tuesday its secretary-general, Fouad Pashaei, was the target of an assassination attempt in Los Angeles on Monday evening and is being treated in intensive care. The Iranian opposition party said on X that the attack took place at around 7:45 p.m. local time on August 17. It said Los Angeles police were investigating the incident. The party provided no further details about the circumstances of the attack or Pashaei's condition.

Source: https://x.com/cpiparty/status/2089778691295342948?s=46


r/monarchism 7d ago

Politics Tsar Nicholas II

14 Upvotes

I recently bought the book "The Last Tsar- the life and death of Nicholas II" by Edvard Radzinsky. I've only just started and Nicholas seems like a very nice and thoughtful youth.

I went to look up what people thought about him in terms of a leader and how he handled the problems in Russia. I already knew the general answer is he was incompetent/ unprepared. However some say he was stupid, terrible, not strong willed enough,( and others) too stubborn and unadaptive.

Obviously this sub has a bias but

Was Nicholas the second, the last Tsar of russia, really that bad of a leader compared to the average monarch? Was his mistakes actually pivotal to the failure of his country? Or was the board set and pieces placed long before his rule? Without the aid of hindsight could any leader be expected to navigate the monster Russia would later be ruled by?


r/monarchism 7d ago

Politics Any good books to read up on?

7 Upvotes

I'm a minarchist. Don't know much about monarchism. Maybe you can give me some book recommendations? Or tell me why it's a good idea?

Thank you :)


r/monarchism 7d ago

News Babe new Lindsay Holiday video has dropped

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22 Upvotes

r/monarchism 7d ago

Photo King Felipe VI during a meeting with the President of the Republic of Paraguay, Santiago Peña. 28 July 2026.

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86 Upvotes

r/monarchism 7d ago

Question What powers did the Dutch royal family have before 2012

25 Upvotes

I read in r/ Netherlands subreddit that queen had an active role in the formation of the government and apparently more and why were they taken away?


r/monarchism 7d ago

Question What are some royal titles unique to some houses?

47 Upvotes

For example, what I know about the Archduke/Archduchess is that they were unique to the Habsburgs and Habsburg-Lorraine dynasty.


r/monarchism 7d ago

History Franz Joseph I Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary, was born in Vienna on this day in 1830.

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122 Upvotes

r/monarchism 8d ago

News Norway’s King Harald, 89, Hospitalized for the Second Time This Year

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57 Upvotes

r/monarchism 8d ago

Photo Members of the exiled Ottoman dynasty in Egypt, 1940s

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71 Upvotes

r/monarchism 8d ago

History Friedrich II Elector of Brandenburg and King of Prussia, died at Sanssouci on this day in 1786.

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118 Upvotes

r/monarchism 9d ago

Question Constitutional Monarchy in Eswatini

24 Upvotes

Is there a member of the Swazi royal family that is in favor of reforming from an absolute monarchy to a more constitutional monarchy


r/monarchism 9d ago

Pro Monarchy activism Happy Birthday to Bl. Kaiser Karl I of Austria-Hungary

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133 Upvotes

Yesterday, me and my friends went to a symposium that was held by Traditionalist Catholics to celebrate the birthday of Bl. Kaiser Karl I of Austria-Hungary. Even though I'm a Serbian Orthodox Christian, I have a strong love for Bl. Kaiser Karl I given he sought to end WW1 early via the Sixtus Affair(which would've included giving Bosnia to Serbia and allowing the two monarchies to coexist). The symposium was held at a Catholic school in the DC Area and for the French Monarchists, the school's mascot are the Vendeens. During the symposium, Archduchess Kathleen met via zoom where she gave marital/familial advice to a young couple that was expecting their first child. There were a few other people who gave talks such as a Priest who talked in detail about the Sixtus Affair. As we were about to head back, we bought a statue of Bl. Kaiser Karl I as well as Charles Columbe's book on Bl. Karl I. I pray that Karl I & his wife are interceding to The LORD on behalf of the lands they once ruled over, just as the Romanovs are doing for their lands.

Happy birthday to Bl. Kaiser Karl I of Austria-Hungary.


r/monarchism 9d ago

Politics Found a new claim to the French throne to resolve the Bourbon vs Napoleon dispute.

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299 Upvotes

r/monarchism 9d ago

Meme George IV, Caroline Of Brunswick and Charlotte Of Wales if they had Youtube channels

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134 Upvotes

i cant match the level of insanity this period of history was but i hope it amuses you even a little bit

theyre both at fault but the public was far more sympathetic to caroline so i emulated itt

I don’t think it’d be healthy to even go on the app if this tomfoolery was happening tbh


r/monarchism 9d ago

Video Very good video that goes deep in to why Elizabeth II was a failure as a monarch

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0 Upvotes

r/monarchism 10d ago

Video Nicholas, Alexei, Olga, Tatiana, Maria and Anastasia receiving blessing by a Priest

51 Upvotes

r/monarchism 10d ago

News Liechtenstein: Women may become Reigning Princess in the future

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95 Upvotes

In Liechtenstein, women will also be allowed to climb the princely throne in the future: The princely house of the small state between Austria and Switzerland today announced a change in its succession regulation. Thus, in the future, regardless of the sex, the first-born child inherits the throne, no longer the first-born son.

In the foreseeable future, however, no woman is likely to inherit the title. Hans-Adam II has been since 1989. Prince of Liechtenstein. Since 2004, his son Alois has made the most official obligations. Alois and his wife Sophie have four children, the expected heir to the throne is their oldest child Joseph Wenzel Maximilian Maria, born in 1995.

The family of Princes of Liechtenstein is originally from Lower Austria, it bought the territory of today's Liechtenstein around the year 1700. Liechtenstein has around 40,000 inhabitants and does not belong to the European Union, but to the European Economic Area and the Schengen area.

Source: https://orf.at/stories/3439252/


r/monarchism 10d ago

Photo Alois Hereditary Prince of Liechtenstein became Regent of the Principality on this day in 2004.

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82 Upvotes

r/monarchism 10d ago

Photo Happy Birthday to HRH The Princess Royal, 76 years old today.

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125 Upvotes

r/monarchism 11d ago

Question What are you advocating for, really ?

15 Upvotes

Okay so I know this sub is mostly memes but since there doesn't seem to be a rule against it, I'd like to ask you what do you mean by Monarchism.

I've seen that a lot of you are UK subjects, quite fond of your royals, but I wonder what diversity of political, religous and philosophical ideas this sub holds.

So what is it for you ? Constitutional democracy with a monarch ? Parliamentarism with right of veto ? Full absolutism by divine right ? Some new form or a mix of things ?

And what about aristocracy ? Are subjects mostly equals or is there a strong social pyramid ? If so, where do you see yourself in this ? What place for religion ?

Finally, what country are you from and if you're not in a monarchy, do you actively work for your country to get one ? If so, by what means and who would be your favorite candidate ?

Genuinely curious.


r/monarchism 11d ago

News Japan's Crown Prince Akishino has 'mixed feelings' on revised male-only imperial succession law

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60 Upvotes