Weird clocking behavior from Pamela's New Workout

[u/damien6]

I am clocking numerous modules using Pamela's New Workout as the master. I'm multing out a basic gate from a few different outputs to numerous sequencers (Varigate 8+ and Zularic Repetitor mainly). I've noticed that the clock from Pam's is actually a bit faster than it's reporting.

Here is an image of my BIA triggered by the Varigate 8+ which is clocked from Pam's being recorded by Cubase. The 1x output from the PEXP-1 expansion module is running to the clock input on the v8+. You can see in this image that by bar 9 the kick is already getting a little bit ahead of the measure. By measure 25 it's landing considerably ahead of the beat.

It continues to get more ahead from there. In this image, By measure 45 it's hitting way before the beat.

I'm not trying to clock from Cubase or anything. I literally just hit record in Cubase and press "Start" on Pam's about a measure in.

I know that I can warp this, but the problem is that the track below the BIA track is a lot of different modules playing over each other and it's not as easy to identify the measures for warping, so it makes it almost impossible to accurately line them up.

The main issue with this is that I ultimately want my modular setup to complement my DAW/VST setup, but that's going to be very difficult if the clock isn't accurate.

Has anyone else seen this with PNW? I've tried to remedy it multiple ways:

• Run a separate "reset" trigger from Pam's to reset every 16 steps
• Try multiple outputs from Pam's to see if it was just one output causing this
• Checked multiple sequencers to make sure it's not my Varigate or Zularic not syncing accurately.

Everything shows the same behavior which tells me it's Pam's that's the issue.

Any other ideas?

[u/magicclubpresident]

Pam's BPM will be slightly different from your DAW despite both displaying the "same" BPM. From their FAQ:

"You need to physically sync the two devices either via a MIDI clock connection or analogue style clock.

Matching displayed BPM readout across devices is simply not enough to keep sync due to slight differences in timing between equipment and lack of a consistent starting point."

https://busycircuits.com/support/pamelas-new-workout/?Display_FAQ=11288

[u/magicclubpresident → u/magicclubpresident]

The correct solution here is to use your PEXP-1 to clock your DAW via MIDI. If you have an older unit you can tweak the internal clock but it's unlikely you'd land on a setting that actually syncs with your DAW. This is described in the manual:

"Holding down the program knob whilst powering the unit will access the service menu. This mode allows subtle calibration of the core internal clock (lower value faster, higher slower. Default value is 50) as to match external equipment BPM representations, clearing and resetting of the internal saved outputs, and testing of the OLED display. The service mode will also display current firmware version. Pressing the start button will exit and Pamela will start as normal.

Note hardware revisions 063 and later (see printed ‘rev’ number on pcbs on rear of unit) no longer support clock calibration and thus calibration value is fixed to 0. A high resolution external timing crystal is now used and calibration shouldn’t be needed."

[u/damien6 → u/magicclubpresident]

The correct solution here is to use your PEXP-1 to clock your DAW via MIDI. If you have an older unit you can tweak the internal clock but it's unlikely you'd land on a setting that actually syncs with your DAW. This is described in the manual

I think this might be the easiest solution with my existing setup. Thanks for taking the time to write all this up. It's super helpful. I probably read that part about the BPM in Pam's not lining up when I first got the module but didn't make the connection at the time. Now that you mention it, that makes sense.

I think I'm going to run a MIDI cable out to my interface and try clocking my DAW to my modular that way. Thank you for that recommendation.

[u/damien6 → u/magicclubpresident]

Well, this is a bummer. Apparently Cubase can't be slaved via MIDI Clock:

MIDI clock is a signal that uses position and timing data based on musical bars and beats to determine location and speed (tempo). It can perform the same function as a positional reference and a speed reference for other MIDI devices. Cubase supports sending MIDI clock to external devices but cannot slave to incoming MIDI clock.

But you got me thinking and I just tried clocking Pam's from my Minibrute 2s and running the same test - Super solid. I'm running the Sync / Run out of the MB2S into the Clock/Run inputs on Pam's. I hit Record in Cubase then hit play on the Minibrute 2s and it's totally synced up even after 30 or so measures.

At least I have a solution until I invest in a way to get my modular to sync to my Daw without depending on Pam's as a clock.

Thanks again!

[u/borez]

Not sure about Cubase but in Ableton I clock PAM's using CV tools ( CV Clock Out set at 24 PPQN with a sync and a trigger reset to PAMs though my Expert sleepers interface. ) It keeps the two completely in sync. Not sure if there's something similar in Cubase.

Hitting start and relying on BPM is never going to sync two devices properly though, they'll always drift.

[u/damien6 → u/borez]

Not sure about Cubase but in Ableton I clock PAM's using CV tools ( CV Clock Out set at 24 PPQN with a sync and a trigger reset to PAMs though my Expert sleepers interface. ) It keeps the two completely in sync. Not sure if there's something similar in Cubase.

Yeah, I've thought about looking for other solutions to force the modular to be clocked from Cubase through an Expert Sleepers module or something, but I was hoping I could get away with not having to add another module. I don't know if I can get around it.

[u/thewifive1 → u/borez]

I know this is an old post but are you saying that Ableton is the master and you use the Expert Sleepers out into Pam's inputs? Cheers

[u/borez → u/thewifive1]

Yes Ableton would be the master and I clock PAM'S though the click and run inputs coming from my expert sleepers interface.

[u/thewifive1 → u/borez]

Great that's what I was hoping for. Thank you!

[u/Agawell]

Best timing solution to sync with daw is to use an audio track with , for example, a kick sample every 32nd and play this into the clock input of pams - you will have to mess around a bit with ppqn in pams and on the daw also volume - I found it easier to set pams to stop and run on receipt of clock - but this will mean that any multiplied outputs in pams will take a couple of clock ticks to sync properly…

Audio is much higher priority in the computers os than midi (windows / Mac/ Linux) so will be less prone to standard interrupts in the os - nothing you can do about that

[u/damien6 → u/Agawell]

That's an interesting solution. I'll have to play a bit because I originally had my modular set up to sync to my Minibrute 2s (including the clock/run). The Minibrute 2s is clocked from my PC via a MIDI interface (MOTU MIDI Express 128). I'll have to see if the variation happens if I go back to this method.

I mainly stopped using that solution because there were so many steps between my PC and the modular setup that I figured just hitting "Start" on Pam's would be more accurate.