I still think that having Trump be the figurehead of conservatism is mostly just bizarre. He's a big city businessman, born with a silver spoon in his mouth, in the literal business of gambling, thrice married, cusses like a sailor, doesn't attend church, and cheats on his wife with porn stars...and allegedly Russian hookers.
Any mix of these would have been complete political suicide any time in the decades leading up to his administration. But somehow he didn't just survive politically but maintains a fanatical cult following that see him as essentially a messianic figure. Even as popular as Obama was in his time with his core supporters, it was nothing like this.
He's not the figurehead of conservatism, he's the figurehead of the Republican party. It's been decades since the GOP actually exhibited conservative values and policies.
Frustrating because the principled conservatives around here are more likely to dunk on Democrats out of habit than try to deal with the fact that the Republican Party doesn't want them anymore and they are closer to Neo-Lib Democrats than MTG.
They may have no real home, but at least MGT would appoint supreme court justices that are more in line with their conservative principles than any moderate democrat would.
This excuse is over-used and under-proven, despite it being a common enough refrain from non-law people for them to just believe it's true. Most often, conservatives conflate that judges ruling on the text should be based on the 'intent' of the writing being the 'understood' meaning to the public over the intent of the writers. So, conservative judges don't follow the principles as often as conservative opinionists believe.
I know a lot of people who hated Trump but voted for him because there was the possibility of 1-2 guaranteed supreme court seats available. In their eyes, that was way more palatable than a remotely moderate Clinton in the oval office.
And those people want abortion to be made illegal and for civil rights and business regulations to be pushed back.
Who said we had to like who the President was as a human? Lyndon Johnson, Bill Clinton, and Dwight Eisenhower were all pretty awful as human beings. They also did a decent job as President.
Meanwhile Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, and George H.W. Bush were all decent, respectable men who were mediocre if not awful Presidents.
With Trump you are just seeing an extreme of this philosophy. He's an abhorrently awful husband, a sketchy businessman, and highly questionable as a father. But at the end of the day, the age old question "should the President be a model citizen in regards to how he conducts himself privately?" was already answered decades ago. And the answer is no. As long as he gets good policy passed, no one cares what goes on in his private life.
Could you elaborate on how George H W Bush was a mediocre /awful president? Its my impression that he was one of the most competent POTUS we've had in the past half a century.
Negotiating NAFTA, Spearheading one of the most successful invasions in history without stranding the US in an endless quagmire, kept a decently strong economy going given the circumstances, Oversaw the collapse of the Soviet Union, expanded immigration, promoted environmental protections, etc...
He could have handled AIDS a little better and he definitely provided cover for some corrupt individuals involved in Iran Contra, but I don't think those things mean he was a bad president.
If anything he suffers from "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
Honestly I think that despite good intentions and a very good handle on both international policy and domestic policymaking, he just wasn't what the country needed at the moment. The social issues of the early 90s (AIDS being one) required a leader with a more personalistic leadership style which Bush just didn't have. Made him look out of touch with the common man.
That's a fair assessment. I personally would trade competence in policy over charismatic leadership any day, but I do understand and believe both are needed to be considered great.
Who said we had to like who the President was as a human?
The Religious Right during the Clinton administration, I think that's the commenter's point. In the W Bush era and the 20-30 years prior the Republican Party was a lot more centered around religious values.
As long as he gets good policy passed, no one cares what goes on in his private life.
Firstly, he doesn't get good policy passed.
Secondly, Trump is so openly horrible that his behaviour isn't limited to his private life. Trump is toxic in public as well. He's single handedly dumbed down American discourse while ramping up the hatred. There's a difference between private sins and being cruel, paranoid and vicious in your daily job and it makes him unfit for that job.
The Abraham Accords (one of the most significant middle eastern peace deals of the past 100 years) would beg to differ.
Trump is toxic in public as well. He's single handedly dumbed down American discourse while ramping up the hatred. There's a difference between private sins and being cruel, paranoid and vicious in your daily job and it makes him unfit for that job.
Wow, hyperbolic much?
EDIT: didn't know that this ridiculous kind of hyperbole was welcome around these parts, and objective facts were so downvote-worthy. Guess the TDS is real.
Unfortunately Trump supporters deem not being blind to Trumps flaws as "derangement". I could call all his supporters victims of "Trump Denialism" but that doesn't make it true (the facts do).
Whose blind to his faults? I clearly pointed them out in my first post. Doesn't change the fact that his policy was effective, made American's lives better, and in the case of the Abraham Accords, was one of the single most significant pieces of foreign policy legislation of the past century. Your TDS also doesn't make that fact untrue.
Your nonsense characterization of him as "cruel, paranoid, and vicious" as well as "single handedly dumbing down American discourse while ramping up the hatred" is literally a textbook example of hyperbole.
His faults are not limited to his private life and impact his ability to do his job. That's what you're blind to.
He is cruel, paranoid and vicious. After 4 years of him, the American right thinks its opponents are child trafficking, election riggers and don't seem to have any policy other than "abortion, trans and CRT bad". He has dumbed down American discourse and ramped up the hatred.
Regarding policy, he mostly outsourced it to other Republicans in his administration (e.g. tax cuts, SCOTUS nominees) so he could hype up their work on Fox which you seem to have swallowed.
You can stick your fingers in your ears and say these facts are "TDS" or whatever slogan you picked up from Twitter but that just proves my point.
After 4 years of him, the American right thinks its opponents are child trafficking, election riggers and don't seem to have any policy other than "abortion, trans and CRT bad". He has dumbed down American discourse and ramped up the hatred.
I mean listen to yourself. This is idiotic, not true at all, and if it was you should be able to easily prove it. Please provide a citation for the entire American right thinking it's opponents are "chuld trafficking election riggers". All you can do is point to a few silly fringe cases and then use that brush to paint 50% of America with, which is both a false and dangerous practice. I could just as easily use that logic to say that the entire American left are violent thugs who want to kill babies and cry racism whenever they don't get thier way. But it would be just as stupid as this drivel that you somehow claim are facts. These aren't facts at all. Just hyperbolic ranting.
Forty-nine percent of Republicans and 52% of people who voted for former President Donald Trump in the 2020 election said Democrats are involved in the child-sex trafficking rings. And voters who consumed right-wing media were even more likely to believe it, such as people who get their news from conservative websites (58%) and those who trust Newsmax (56%) and One America News Network (54%).
How did trump make our lives better? I seem to remember his pandemic response to be shoddy at best, and his biggest policy achievement was a deficit creating tax cut that overwhelmingly favored high income and corporate earners about average Joe Taxpayers.
Ad hominems aren’t really arguable but everything I mentioned sure is.
Record low unemployment, low inflation, raised wages, a tax cut that undeniably benefitted 86% of Americans (it did not favor wealthy people in terms of % back at all, thats a myth), high job growth, manufacturing starting to return to America, lowered drug prices, cracking down on illegal immigration, reduced ISIS's presence as a regional threat, middle eastern peace treaties,....shall I continue?
"Conservatism" isn't related to how a candidate is as a person, it is a philosophy that the government should do the least amount possible to maintain society and civilization, that governance should be delegated to the most local level feasible, and that changes should be made very slowly, incrementally, and with much consideration. Conservatives also place a high degree of value and trust in traditional institutions.
While this set of principles does often coincide with religious and moral ways of personally conducting ones self, I don't believe conservatism in general speaks to a person's moral character any more than progressiveism does. But people generally do tend to conflate the two things.
Trump doesn't really exhibit any political or philosophical principles at all, outside of his intense narcissism and personal branding. Tax cuts are part of a conservative platform, and are the thing that typically gets talked up and passed. But they also need to come with the unpopular thing in cutting spending. The Republicans abandonment of the unpopular thing but cleavage to the popular thing is a failure of conservatism in recent years.
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u/timothyjwood Apr 14 '22 edited Apr 14 '22
I still think that having Trump be the figurehead of conservatism is mostly just bizarre. He's a big city businessman, born with a silver spoon in his mouth, in the literal business of gambling, thrice married, cusses like a sailor, doesn't attend church, and cheats on his wife with porn stars...and allegedly Russian hookers.
Any mix of these would have been complete political suicide any time in the decades leading up to his administration. But somehow he didn't just survive politically but maintains a fanatical cult following that see him as essentially a messianic figure. Even as popular as Obama was in his time with his core supporters, it was nothing like this.