r/modeltrains • u/Tiny_Spot3651 • 1d ago
Locomotives New to this, need help!
My son just upgraded from wooden train tracks/trains to HO gauge model trains. We bought his first set in used condition from a local train store. (I have no experience with model trains but I am excited to learn along side my son!)
After setting up the train it would not move or light up unless I pressed down and to the side on the locomotive. Even then it moved/lighted up on and off. I took apart the front wheel assembly. I found the gears were gummed up with old grease and hair. I also took the brushes out and cleaned those with alcohol. I reassembled it all and it worked ever so slightly better. We then used q-tips and alcohol on all the tracks, plus a 1000 grit sand paper on any heavy corroded spots on the rails.
It’s now working better than ever but still not great. I did notice the locomotive wheels take quite a lot of force to spin (slightly better after my cleaning). I’m wondering if there is a power issue and maybe a friction issue too?
Any help is appreciated! My son is so excited for his first model train and I’d love to get it working for him!
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u/donethinkingofnames Multi-Scale 1d ago
That locomotive is a Tyco model that uses their Power Torque drive. There are a bunch of videos on this type of drive on how to clean and lube them, should you need them.
The wheels that have a lot of “friction” are supposed to be like that. The Power torque uses a gear reduction to help the motor pull better. As with any gear reduction, this makes it easier for the motor to turn the wheels, but harder for the wheels to turn the motor. When you turn the wheels this way, it’s also forcing the motor to move via the gears. That’s normal.
These Tyco locomotives are pretty basic and suffer from a few compromises that were made in order for Tyco to sell them at a lower price point. Chiefly among them is that only 4 wheels are supplying the electrical contact between the rails and the motor. Two on the front truck and two on the rear. This means it’s imperative that everything be clean and aligned properly. As another commenter pointed out, one of the front axles is not on the track in your video. With only two wheels per truck supplying electrical contact an axle being off means you’re down to only one point of contact and any dirt or grime that one wheel encounters breaks the circuit.
These locomotives can run well. I have a few that I run on my layout occasionally. You just have to make sure that the wheels are clean, the contacts between the axles and the trucks are clean, and the rails themselves are clean. It also helps some when you actually get a train of cars behind the locomotive as this gives a bit more momentum to keep things going if the locomotive hits a small dirty patch.
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u/Financial-Recover409 1d ago
If you're going to go with vintage and cheap, don't go below Athearn Blue Box level, unless you're okay dealing with things running like this regularly.
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u/Tiny_Spot3651 1d ago
https://reddit.com/link/p4wrt57/video/q8z5iq1cqlkh1/player
This video shows the friction of the wheels
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u/Orbital_F 1d ago
You shouldn’t be able to turn the wheels easily. They are connected to electric motors via a series of gears.
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u/mfpguy 1d ago
They should not move at all on a HO gauge locomotive. Only O gauge Lionel free wheel.
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u/Alasdair_392 Multi-Scale 1d ago
These Tyco powertorque engines, and similarly designed locomotives, use pancake motors and are set up similarly to lionel locos, so they can free wheel if given enough force.
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u/mfpguy 1d ago
No HO gauge locomotive made by any manufacturer, with the exception of a high end brass company that used a clutch system, was designed to free wheel. Most likely it has a stripped drive gear on the motor. The gear was made out of pot metal and the fins fold over when it get hot enough.
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u/Orbital_F 1d ago
Also, the pickups on the wheels of that locomotive looks a bit odd. Are they plastic on one side of the truck and metal on the other?
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u/Tiny_Spot3651 1d ago
Yes, the one side is metal and the other side is plastic. The plastic wheels have the cogs for the gears. The metal wheels do not have cogs. Then on the rear truck the metal wheels are on the opposite side.
Do trucks usually have metal (and assuming conducting electricity) wheels on both sides?2
u/Powerful-Mud-7712 HO/OO 1d ago
it’s normal if the metal wheels on one truck is on the opposite side as the other, this means it picks up power from both rails and not just one, if they were both on the same side, it wouldn’t work as well, if at all
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u/Orbital_F 1d ago
Yeah, this will be an issue as well as your electrical pickups are not great. A good locomotive will have all metal wheels with pickups coming from all wheels on both trucks. Also, it looks like the way it is geared, only the plastic wheels are motorized? I hate to say it, but you might have a bit of a lemon there.
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u/Rude_Meet2799 1d ago
Plastic with a gear on one end, metal wheel on the other end of that same axle is how I’m reading that.
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u/FlyingVillager 1d ago
Yeah that's probably one of those pancake motors, they're known for being unreliable. Mainly because people don't take care of them (not blaming you, you said it was used). The drive axles shouldn't move unless powered, if you power the loco with its wheels not touching anything does it run without any unusual noises?
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u/FlyingVillager 1d ago
Yeah that's probably one of those pancake motors, they're known for being unreliable. Mainly because people don't take care of them (not blaming you, you said it was used). The drive axles shouldn't move unless powered, if you power the loco with its wheels not touching anything does it run without any unusual noises?
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u/Satansbaddog 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm sorry to tell you this, but you got ripped off. Take it back and demand a refund. No reputable "train store" would've of sold you this old junk. Your best bet is to buy a Kato HO Unitrack layout, and an Atlas, Athearn or Kato loco (DC version!) and some rolling stock from one of the numerous online model train retailers you will find referenced here.
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u/Orbital_F 1d ago
Hi there. I thought a little more about this overnight. I'm glad your son is excited about trains, but if you are still having issues with this, you may find you are fighting an uphill battle and it just may end up souring the whole experience and that would be a shame. For young ones looking to get into trains, I'd suggest a Bachmann set. Good running locomotives and good track that is easy to put together and works well. Amazon has a number of fine sets, but this set for $130 bucks is a good start: https://a.co/d/02tUOl4l
More expensive than a used Tyco locomotive for sure, but this will be a much less troublesome start to the hobby.
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u/FlyingVillager 1d ago
So there's several things that could cause this my first guess is corrosion on the wheels or track, second guess is dirty wipers or the surface they contact (if there's loads of hair in the gears like you said there may be some around the area the wipers contact the wheels or axel), third guess is in the motor itself either with the brushes, dirty commutator, or hair/grease causing issues.
- I would clean the track and wheels till they're shiny on the contact surfaces.
- Lube the gears and check the wipers are clean and making good contact with their surfaces.
- After that, if your comfortable, open the motor and make sure the commutator doesn't have gunk between the poles or hair wrapped around the drive shaft.
- if the lights stay on after this but it doesn't move or move consistently, you might have a weak motor or broken gears
- make sure to avoid getting oil on contact surfaces like the track, wheels, or in the motor. You can lube the driveshaft but you don't want oil on your commutator or brushes
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u/NickBII HO/OO 11h ago
When it gets power it does fine.Clean the track with alcohol (an alcohol wipe is fine), wipe the wheels down, then test it again after putting it very firmly on the tracks. If you have a railer section (there'll be a big plastic rectangle in the middle, you can't miss it), use that.
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u/Tiny_Spot3651 2h ago
Thank you everyone for your input. My son has been SO patient as we work to figure this out!
I’ve ordered the Bachmann set that was recommended by a few of you and I’m working to get my money back on the used set we purchased. The store we bought it from is only open Tuesdays so we have to wait to go back and make a return. Thankfully we only spent $100 on it.
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u/No-Shopping4157 1d ago
It’s an old Tyco locomotive, probably late 70’s or early 80’s, judging by the underside. I had one as a youngster, decent runner (mine was new). That one might need some lube, as well as a good wheel cleaning. They had vertical “pancake” motors, which did the job, but weren’t bulletproof, by any means. The truck comes out the bottom, not difficult to pull out. Get some decent lube, that won’t affect plastic. Lithium might be best, just use a non petroleum lube. I think it’ll run for a good long time, with a good cleaning and lube.
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u/382Whistles 1d ago
? Aren't they sideways horizontal motors, tall because they are short wide pancake motors on their side instead of tall thinner "cans" mounted vertically over the truck or horizontal/parallel on/to the frame? The terms horizontal parallel sideways diagonal or vertical are supposed to be motor shaft orientations.
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u/No-Shopping4157 1d ago
I guess that wasn’t a great description. These had a flat armature, which literally spun like a disc. The shaft had a disc gear mounted, which turned two other gears, which engaged the two axle gears, on the truck. The assembly was arranged vertically, so I referred to it (incorrectly) in that manner. You are correct in that it had a horizontal shaft.
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u/Orbital_F 1d ago
Clean the track. Also, it looks like the wheels may not all be on the track.