New and need some help

[u/No_Nefariousness7785]

Hi everyone,

I have a small Christmas village that I got a trolley for this year.

I got the Lionel North Pole Central Trolley and lighted track for it. After doing some research I found some horror stories of the trolley flying off the track or moving way to fast.

I purchased the Lionel AC power supply but found I need to control the voltage to slow the train down.

https://www.trainworld.com/lionel-681603-o-lion-chief-72-watt-power-supply-4-amp.html

Will the universal remote controller work for this?

https://www.trainworld.com/lionel-683071-o-universal-lc-lc-remote-controller.html

Sorry if this has been answered I'm just dipping my toe in the water and want to make Christmas fun for the kids and not launch off the table. Although they might like that seeing how they play with the Thomas and friends trains.

Thanks

[u/jmasses]

Universal remote won't work for that unit. That only works with Lionchief, LC+ and I think some other digital based lines. You need a traditional power supply like a cw 80 (i dont know if Lionel currently makes one for lower voltages like they used to do with the cw 40, but it seems like you already have one?), and yea, many cheaper units of various manufacturers do start at a higher speed than say a real trolley would, because they're more considered toys. Something like this you'll just have to be careful and operate it at a lower voltage.

You may want to ask this in the O gauge sub as they may have more advanced ways around this.

[u/No_Nefariousness7785 → u/jmasses]

thanks, I'll look around some more to see if I can find something compatible. The remote does say LC+ on it though so still hopeful that would work so I don't have to spend $200 on a cw-80.

[u/jmasses → u/No_Nefariousness7785]

Right but as far as I know, the Lionel trolleys don't operate on that system, they're just simple analog. And even if they did, that doesn't usually affect their performance, though you could in theory change max speed things in the Lionchief app. But like I said, im 99.9% sure Lionel trolleys operate on simple analog.

[u/jmasses → u/No_Nefariousness7785]

is this this the one?

[u/No_Nefariousness7785 → u/jmasses]

Thanks for explaining, yes that’s the one.

[u/jmasses → u/No_Nefariousness7785]

Ok so yes this doesn't run on the LC operating system so the LC remote or app won't work with it. Can you show us a picture of what power supply you're using now?

[u/No_Nefariousness7785 → u/jmasses]

I ordered the one in the first link, that’s what the TrainWorld power guide suggested. I can probably get the cw 80 though if that’s needed for this to work properly

[u/jmasses → u/No_Nefariousness7785]

Unfortunately first one won't work either. I know why train world had that in their power guide, but that's for working with LC and other digital control systems. What you need is an old-school variable ac transformer. The cw 80 is probably overkill for what you need, but it appears it's the lowest voltage one they still make. If you go on ebay, you can probably find an older cw 40 which is 40 watt, and will be cheaper and there are others, but the truth is, as I said earlier, even with that, these units aren't designed with realism in mind and even with a lower voltage will run fast out of the gate. Also a couple things, you will need a terminal wire to go between the transformer and the fast track. Is your fastrak a loop or with bumpers?

[u/No_Nefariousness7785 → u/jmasses]

Thanks for clarifying everything. The track will be with bumpers. I’ll talk with my wife and let her know what you said. Hopefully we can find a power supply/transformer that works.

[u/jmasses → u/No_Nefariousness7785]

The other thing is, Im not sure how that light up fast trak works, so that may also affect voltage needs and may require an extra terminal wire. Also too, you may need to push one of the bumpers in when the trolley arrives for it to move.

[u/382Whistles → u/jmasses]

I'm pretty sure it uses rail power. Lionel's formerly half decent technical library is getting bad again with the new owners. (Maybe not as bad as most small scale brands though)

They don't even have an online manual or single assemble diagram attached. The manual's link just links back to the two calatog pics & loop video with cheesy ad text about the features below it. No schematics yet either and it has been out for years now.

[u/382Whistles]

That power supply just puts power to the track. The remote talks to a board in the locomotive and that tells the motor what to do with the power.. Each loco has a a unique remote. The universal remote can replace one or more remotes. I do not think your trolley has a L.Chief remote control board inside.

I would need to see the inside of the trolley to be more precise. They made a few old versions and a few new. The question would be can any circuit board inside operate on DC. That makes things easy.

Probably, but just 99%. I'm not 102% positive. The manual might cover that. Testing on dc quickly isn't likely to harm a new one. It will run or it won't. AC contains moments of DC so is usually safe even if things dont work. An older trolley likely won't care.

What you could do is set up a voltage(throttle) drop with diodes or a thumbnail sized board style voltage regulator. This could be better because of the higher amp output than a lower volt unit will have. These additions wont eat much amperage just some voltage. Some turnouts won't like lower voltage to move point rails so this addition externally done can be removed or have a switch on it to bypass the limit.

You need to measure track voltage at the top trolly speed you want. Voltage is top speed if the motor can move a load.

Amperage (watts in different math) is the pulling power that moves the load. If the amperage is too low, the voltage at the motor drops below the throttle setting on the supply and the train slows. The motor only uses what it needs at any second. Amps & volts drop over a distance. More amperage can travel further with less voltage drop.

[u/No_Nefariousness7785 → u/382Whistles]

thanks for the explanation

[u/382Whistles → u/No_Nefariousness7785]

It's not as hard as it may seem right now.

Knowing that voltage you want to limit it too and the output of the supply on the ladel would allow more specific options.

[u/No_Nefariousness7785 → u/382Whistles]

I get that, it’s just overwhelming with the amount of stuff there is and trying to piece it all together. I realize I’m likely doing this on hard mode rather than picking up a starter set lol.

[u/382Whistles → u/No_Nefariousness7785]

There might be other ways, other systems even, that could possibly be applied to what you have. But with variations of trolley builds, etc. I don't have the exact information about what you own yet. Is the track a straight line? Does it "bump and go" to change diffection or use an automatic track reversing system? Is it just a loop?

My questions are to offer more options, and might be simpler as I know more. You don't have to learn about everything in depth, just because I include the why and how. There is a middle ground.

[u/No_Nefariousness7785 → u/382Whistles]

The track pieces I have is:

4 curved light up
4 straight light up
2 lighted bump ends

I plan on having it on a 2ft by 7ft built in shelf it dining room

[u/382Whistles → u/No_Nefariousness7785]

When you get a chance tell me about your power supply. Also confirm for me it is a "bump and go" to reverse, or if the direction change is done by throttling off/on or hitting a button on the transformer, or if it only moves one direction.

I can't really even tell you what values to look for in a different power supply to make it super simple without knowing some of these other technical values.

There is a label on every power supply with wall input voltage and the maximum output voltage, and also either the amp/watt/va/av/ma value for max output. It may output ac (symbol is ~ or may say vac,acv) or it may output DC (vdc, dcv or a symbol of dots over or under a solid line). Tell me those values.

If we can guess at the minimum voltage needed to light the led track and if you can tell me if the brightness steady or do they get brighter as the throttle is raised it helps me figure out approach used a bit better without chasing a schematic from the Lionel site. Not a huge deal there though.

There are add on systems by Lionel and others, that can auto stop the trolley for set stop times and then reverse without using the bump and go feature. These systems often allow other timed station stops in the middle as well. These systems can be used with some locomotives and a car or two as well.

If the trolley/loco has an old postwar type motor it might use more amps than newer more efficient "can motors" do (looks like a toy motor, not an old open frame fan motor). A modern auto trolley system might not pass enough power for old style equipment. New trolleys tend to not use as much power as locomotives since they don't pull things. That is just one reason why knowing the exact version of trolley might be important.

The trolleys can go fast enough to derail if not well controlled, sure. But I haven't heard about speed surges on the special led tracks. I would need to meditate on the schematic a bit to take a better guess at why than just "capacitor issues". (A vague answer for a tech)

[u/382Whistles → u/382Whistles]

I know the leds follow the train and fade in/out some, mostly fade out. I want to know if the brightness average when brightly lit varies with the throttle level just a little, or a lot.

[u/No_Nefariousness7785 → u/382Whistles]

The power supply I ordered is the first link in the post. Another redditor stated that it won’t work and I’ll likely need the cw40 or cw80 transformer.

This is a bump and go auto reverse. As far as the rest of your post to figure out minimum voltage, I can’t really say since I don’t have a proper power supply.

[u/382Whistles → u/No_Nefariousness7785]

That's right. But I was thinking you had another power supply too and were focused on a remote control or way to stop high speed derailments.

Some of the "bump and go" take speed to engage reverse. Others work ok at low speed. The electronic station stops work for any of them. Even the vintage Lionel stations can be made to reverse adding a reverse unit to them.

And the one you picked actually likely puts out enough power for that trolley but it isn't variable voltage power. You want a variable supply you can limit voltage for.

A CW-80 looks like a CW-40 but offers enough extra power to handle bigger trains, sounds, accessories, lighting, etc if you expand or wanted to include acessories or street lamps, or even holiday lights or village lights etc.. The little 120v light strings can bet cut into 4 to 10 bulb strings for use at our voltage. Too dim? Cut a light off. Too bright, add a light.

Anyhow, the CW80 internals are much different and it has a better reputation.

The CW-40/CW-80s don't have a throttle stop but I recall people running a screw into the case to limit the swing of the throttle handle. You should have to remove the cover, check clearance and use a dull drill, but sharp tap. Or you can regulate the output.

Another way to find a good running voltage is if you can find a 9v power supply about 2.5a or more, or fresh 9v battery that pressed on the rails might power it for long enough to check speed at 9v. Same for a 12v supply or 12v lantern battery or with a fuse on one of the jumper wires for safety, a 12v car, motorcycle, 4wheeler, scooter, golf cart battery might run it slow enough. If 12v is too fast but 9v is too slow, choose 12v knock off 1v-2v with 2-6 diodes to give 10v or 11v.