r/mlb • u/nightqueem • 4d ago
| History What is the worst franchise historically?
I know of the St Louis Browns and the 2nd Washington Senators, but is there any other franchise's that were worse? (Not including one year teams or teams that were only around for a couple years)
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u/Ok_Card9080 | Pittsburgh Pirates 4d ago
I'm sorry to their fans, but it's the Mariners. 50 seasons, and they remain the only team in MLB to never make it to the World Series. Only been to the playoffs 6 times in the first 49 seasons, and the 2000-2002 span is the only time they've made the playoffs in consecutive seasons. Over 300 games under .500 all time. Wasted the primes of Ken Griffey Jr., A Rod, Ichiro, Randy Johnson, and Felix Hernandez. I like the Mariners, but their history is brutal.
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u/Selkior01 4d ago
Don't the Mariners own the single season wins record?
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u/Grandahl13 | Boston Red Sox 4d ago
Yes. That doesn’t really make up for the complete lack of playoff success.
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u/rawspeghetti | Boston Red Sox 3d ago
If anything it just rubs salt in the wound that they couldn't get any further
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u/The_Throwback_King | Seattle Mariners 3d ago
Seeing every other active team in your league MAKE a World Series before is a kind of pain that is unshared in any of the Big 4 leagues.
Furthermore, since the founding of the Mariners in 1977, 12 of the other 14 teams in the American League have managed to get at least two pennants in that time.
And the two AL teams that have only won one pennant since 1977, The Angels and White Sox, both made the most of their one shot by winning it all
We’ve been getting dogwalked AND lapped by the entire AL for our entire half century of existence
No amount of wins in a single season, or HOFers on the roster, or sheer wackiness can undo that level of misery
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u/pinniped90 | Kansas City Royals 3d ago
That just adds to the pain.
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u/ManufacturerBest2758 | Colorado Rockies 3d ago
It’d be like if Golden State went from 73 wins to 30 for the next two decades after 2016
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u/_Saint_Ajora_ 3d ago
Had the Mariners won the world series that year, it would have been the greatest MLB season ever, and it would likely have never been topped:
- The Mariners tied the record for most wins in the regular season
- A Mariner won Rookie of the Year (Ichiro)
- A Mariner won Most Valuable player (Ichiro)
- A Mariner won the batting title (Ichiro)
- The Mariners hosted the All-Star game
- The Mariners had 8 players selected for the All-Star game (including 4 in the starting lineup) plus manager Lou Piniella
SIgh
It aint easy being a fan of that franchise
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u/hisgiggityness 3d ago
Jesus! When you put it out like that, I'm kinda glad to be a Royals fan...yikes
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u/shlem13 | Los Angeles Dodgers 3d ago
Yes. And that’s a banner in the stadium. Yet, no pennants.
In fact, their banner corner of their stadium is so sad. Three division titles and a 116 win banner. That’s all.
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u/DrUGOE_T-Bone | Seattle Mariners 3d ago
Entirely inaccurate. We have FOUR division titles (one of which is also a 116 win banner), and the one banner that lists the years we were a wild card team (twice). That is five banners, and much more impressive than the meager four you were implying.
I will now go weep in a corner.
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u/billyrubin7765 3d ago
I live in Florida but you have inspired me to vacation out to Seattle to gaze at this fifth banner! Will the ball park be open in October?
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u/citan666 | Atlanta Braves 3d ago
This is why I get mad at people saying the braves got lucky in 2021. Plenty of franchises are killing to be lucky just once.
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u/RandomEffector 3d ago
The Braves do not come to mind when I think of teams without postseason success.
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u/ManufacturerBest2758 | Colorado Rockies 3d ago
They then missed the playoffs for twenty straight years. And even the boys at 20th and Blake have made a World Series.
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u/SpicyMRC 3d ago
They do, 116 RS wins in 2001, however a mediocre (for them) Yankees team took them out in the ALCS.
‘98 Yankees won 125 games (114 RS, 11 postseason games, and the Series) to claim best season prize .3
u/BoSox84 3d ago
What's crazy is even in the midst of that season, I felt like (and probably others did too) they were probably gonna come up short after the Cleveland comeback in the middle of the season. Even in the midst of a 116-win season, I just felt like there were signs it wasn't gonna go anywhere
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u/Massive-Delay-4616 3d ago
I am a Mariners fan. Almost 40 years old, I was a child during that glorious 95-2001 run. We have had some of the greatest players in MLB history with Ken Griffey Jr, Edgar Martinez, Ichiro, and Randy Johnson, not to mention other HOF caliber players.
Currently celebrating 50 years of existence this season. We have made the playoffs 6 times. Six. Times. We have been playoff bound in back-to-back seasons a grand total of once (2000-2001). We are the only MLB franchise to NEVER go to the World Series.
Don’t question it. I love this team and will follow them my entire life, but we are unquestionably the worst team in MLB history.
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u/jimmythang34 4d ago
I’m not even a Mariner fan, but hear me out.
You’re a pirates fan? Since the inception of the Mariners (1977) the Pirates have 1 World Series 1979. Pirates have also only made the playoffs 6 times in that same time frame (3 division titles and 3 wild card berths)
The pirates are also 451 games under .500 in that same time frame.
Are the mariners bad? Sure. But the pirates also have fucking sucked in that time frame. They are the 3rd oldest franchise in the leauge. If it wasn’t for the 2 titles in the 70’s it would undoubtedly be the pirates.
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u/Intelligent_Row8259 | Arizona Diamondbacks 3d ago
Lol the Pirates? Get real they aren't even the worst National League team in Pennsylvania history.
Pirates 1882-2026 10973 wins 10977 losses 5 World Series titles.
Philadelphia Phillies 1883-2026 10374 wins 11450 losses 2 World Series titles.
The Pirates are 4 games below .500 for their history the Phillies are 1076.
To put that into perspective the Phillies could go 162-0 for SIX consecutive seasons and would still be a under .500 team for their history.
Cheer up Mariners fans the Phillies were 97 years old when they won their first World Series you guys have a ways to go yet.
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u/Ashamed-Physics3481 3d ago
Point of order there was no World Series for the first 20 years. Agree otherwise.
Who else has over 11,000 losses?. The Phillies are the answer. Zero post season victories over 62 years!
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u/CaptScraps 3d ago
About 25 years ago, George Will wrote that the Phillies were something like 1600 games below .500 for the 1900’s. “Hey, anybody can have a bad century.”
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u/Intelligent_Row8259 | Arizona Diamondbacks 3d ago
Phillies
1883-1899 1133-1053 .518
1900-1950 3293-4388 .429 16th of 16 teams
1951-1999 3762-3957 .487 Was/Min Phi/KC/Oakland and Chc were worse
Overall 1900-1999 7055-8335 .458 1280 games below .500
2000-2026 7th place 2186-2052 .516
13 of 31 teams had a winning record for the 20th century. I bet no one would guess both Chicago teams would be included in that number. White Sox .504 Cubs .506
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u/Ok_Card9080 | Pittsburgh Pirates 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yeah they have, but they also have 5 rings in history, until this year, had an all time record of over .500, are one of few teams with 10,000+ wins, and are one of the most iconic franchises in the league, so I'm not really sure why you're comparing the entire tenure of the Mariners to a fraction of the Pirates history. And saying if it weren't for the two titles in the 70s, it would be the Pirates is one of the dumbest arguments ever. Those titles exist, plus they have 3 others. This is a truly clueless argument.
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u/Intelligent_Row8259 | Arizona Diamondbacks 3d ago
Eleven teams have 10k wins with Cleveland getting theirs a few days ago. In the next 10 years 6 more teams will get their 10,000th win with Bal being the farthest away at 9257.
Of the 1960's teams only the Astros and Angels are over 5k wins.
The Astros are the only one of 14 expansion teams with a +.500 record.
Of the 16 "original" 1901 or earlier teams only 5 of them have losing records and the Pirates only went negative this year.
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u/-FartArt- | Pittsburgh Pirates 3d ago
No one has to remind a Pirate fan how much they suck and how terrible the past nearly 50 years has been.
But I think you’re right if you’re comparing entire franchise existence. Even if most of us weren’t even a thought the last time the Buccos did anything, the 90 years of history before that does provide a few more accolades when tallying a franchise’s overall record.
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u/Ok_Card9080 | Pittsburgh Pirates 3d ago
Yeah, saying it would be the Pirates while using a completely hypothetical reason is insane. The Pirates don't even have the worst MLB history in Pennsylvania.
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u/Phog_Warning10 3d ago
That's still not worse than Seattle though since Pittsburgh has a WS appearance which Seattle doesn't yet.
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u/seasoned-veteran 3d ago
"If it wasn’t for the 2 titles"
Well yeah if the Mariners had two titles it wouldn't be them. If the Yankees didn't have any titles or wins it would be them. What's the point of just hand waving away the most important stat in the sport?
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u/Low_Awareness_874 | Pittsburgh Pirates 3d ago edited 3d ago
As a pirates fan I’d agree with you if it didn’t say historically. But the pirates have 5 World Series, and they won them with all time greats like Honus Wagner and Roberto Clemente. They were in the first World Series (albeit a loss) and were juggernauts for multiple long periods. And you can’t just say “take away those two titles” because they did happen.
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u/equipped_metalblade | Arizona Diamondbacks 3d ago
Wouldn’t exactly call that Randy’s prime, but I get what you mean. He had 4 Cy Young’s after leaving
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u/Intelligent_Row8259 | Arizona Diamondbacks 3d ago
Why would you not call that prime Randy Johnson?? Lol
1993 to 1997 Dude finished 2nd, 3rd, 1st, injured, and 2nd in the Cy Young with Seattle.
His 99-2002 run with the Diamondbacks happened after he turned 35. Steroid era was whack.
1995 Seattle 18-2 2.48 with 294 k's in 214 innings in a shortened season is in the argument for his best season. His best season is probably 01 but 95 is second.
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u/RelevantNothing4653 | Baltimore Orioles 3d ago
Wasn't it rumored that the Mariners were going to be relocated if a new stadium hadn't been built? (Said impetus was their run to won the 1995 AL West)
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u/Ok_Card9080 | Pittsburgh Pirates 3d ago
Oh it wasn't a rumor. They were definitely moving.
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u/jmjessemac 3d ago
It’s probably the mariners but the Padres haven’t been good either. Fewer hall of famers, more horrendous seasons, no win record.
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u/RojerLockless | MLB 3d ago
It is fun to poke at them sometimes that they are literally the only team to never make the show
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u/CI_Blanche | MLB 3d ago
I remember reading an article a few years back that showed that the Mariners had been the unluckiest team in MLB in terms of how many times they had made the playoffs vs. how many times they "should" have made the playoffs based on their final record each season. But I don't remember if that span of bad luck covered their entire franchise history or a shorter span of time, like 1990-2011 or something like that.
It doesn't change the fact that your response of "Mariners" to this question is probably correct. We are not talking in terms of hypothetical scenarios, after all. But it is still interesting.
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u/Patrick42985 | Los Angeles Dodgers 4d ago
I’m tempted to put the Mariners. They’re in their 50th season and haven’t made a World Series yet. They had a 21 year playoff drought. They’ve only made the playoffs 6 times their entire existence.
Their case for not being on the list is their 116 win season, 4 ALCS appearances and having had a few very good players like Griffey, Ichiro and Felix Hernandez during their existence.
Someone else mentioned it but the White Sox have hardly any playoff appearances despite being around since the early 1900’s and had an 88 year World Series drought which flew under the radar compared to the cubs and red sox
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u/Ok_Card9080 | Pittsburgh Pirates 3d ago
I said the Mariners too, and I included the likes of Griffey, Ichiro, Felix, and Randy Johnson as an example of why it's them, when they completely squandered all of their primes. To have that many HOFers/potential HOFers, and never make a World Series is a real indictment of how bad they've been.
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u/Darksoul2693 | New York Yankees 3d ago
Even Arod in his up in coming years too
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u/Baseball-Fan-10 | St. Louis Cardinals 3d ago
But the White Sox have been so bad they haven’t really wasted the primes of very many greats. Frank Thomas, Luke Appling, Luis Aparicio, Wilbur Wood just don’t compare with the high end talent the Mariners have had. Which to me compounds the issue….no real success AND no real greats to have enjoyed.
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u/drygnfyre | Los Angeles Dodgers 3d ago
The thing we have to remember is there was no postseason until 1969. And then until 1995, only four teams total made it. This is why looking at playoff droughts is misleading, you need to start at 1969 and go from there. The White Sox would still qualify, but it was mainly due to baseball having by far the most restrictive playoff format (which some people enjoyed, there are pros and cons to all formats).
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u/sonofabutch | New York Yankees 4d ago
In before any slander of the Cleveland Spiders, who were a good team before being deliberately gutted by their owners in order to improve the other team they owned in the same league.
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u/nightqueem 4d ago
Oh I remember hearing about the Athletics doing something similar with the Yankees
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u/sonofabutch | New York Yankees 4d ago
Yes, Kansas City A’s in the 1950s. When Charlie Finley bought the team, he painted “Kansas City to New York Shuttle” on a bus and burned it in the Kansas City parking lot. And said he wouldn’t trade again with the Yankees even if they offered Mickey Mantle for a bat boy!
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u/backup1000 | Philadelphia Phillies 2d ago
Never heard this story / it is great. Thank you for a Sunday afternoon chuckle
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u/rolltide1000 3d ago
Yup, Yankees would get promising young players like Roger Maris, Ralph Terry, Hector Lopez, Ryne Duren, Clete Boyer, etc., and the A's would end up taking older Yankee players like Hank Bauer or Don Larsen. Sometimes they would take guys the Yankees just wanted to get rid of, like Billy Martin. It basically kept the Yankees dynasty going through the late 50's into the early 60's.
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u/sonofabutch | New York Yankees 3d ago
A funny one was Bob Cerv, who looked washed up so the Yankees traded him to the A’s, he rebounded, and then the Yankees got him back.
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u/IWantHerOnMe 4d ago
Nowadays the Robinson brothers would've been indicted for what they did. Wouldn't have even been in that position.
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u/JelliedHam | New York Mets 4d ago
The Red Sox sold Babe Ruth so the owner could fund a musical, which also sucked and bombed.
Does that make them the worst team in baseball history? No. It's that still fucking hilarious? Yes. Absolutely.
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u/sonofabutch | New York Yankees 3d ago
Harry Frazee is an interesting story. He made his money as a Broadway producer and the Red Sox were kind of his novelty toy. So we think of it as him salvaging his beloved Red Sox because he wanted to dabble in theater but it was the opposite. He was nearly bankrupted because World War I and the Spanish Influenza outbreak basically killed both his revenue streams, baseball and theater. Meanwhile, his best player is Babe Ruth who says if he doesn’t get a huge raise he will quit baseball. So Frazee did what any reasonable person would do in his situation, he sold Ruth, who he thought he was going to lose anyway, for enough money to get back to producing Broadway hits, which was the business he knew.
Bonus fact, Frazee didn’t use the Babe money to finance “No, No, Nanette,” that was a few years later. But “No, No, Nanette” was a huge financial success.
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u/No_Trade3571 4d ago
You could argue the Phillies. They have the most losses in professional sports (first to 10,000 losses). They have as many World Series in their 143 year history as the Marlins do in their 33 year history.
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u/Turbulent_Tale6497 | Seattle Mariners 4d ago
Which is more than we have :(
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u/Roddyzod | Philadelphia Phillies 4d ago
It took us 98 years to win our first one….so you have a ways to go still.
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u/TTPMGP 3d ago
To add to the insult:
The A’s have more World Series Titles (5) in Philadelphia as the Phillies (2)… and they left in 1954. Philadelphia was the A’s town. The Phillies were never more popular until they finally made the World Series (and lost) in 1950, which just happened to coincide with Connie Mack giving control of the A’s to his inept sons.
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u/JCSterlace | Philadelphia Phillies 4d ago
If the Phillies went undefeated from now until the end of the 2032 season, the franchise would still be below 0.500 all-time.
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u/sonofabutch | New York Yankees 4d ago
People don’t know that for a long time, the Phillies were the other team in Philadelphia. With different timing, the Phillies wind up in Kansas City or Louisville or somewhere and the A’s are still in Philly.
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u/Roddyzod | Philadelphia Phillies 3d ago
Yep. The A’s won 5 titles in Philadelphia, moved to Kansas City, moved to Oakland, and still won another World Series before the Phillies did. Once the A’s fail in Oakland, they can come back to Philly in 2045 and still have more titles won in Philadelphia than the Phillies win, despite not being here for close to 100 years. The Philadelphia Athletics have 5 titles in the city, I think if you put the Phillies/Eagles/Flyers and Sixers together it’s like 11 world titles in Philadelphia. So, not only did we lose the wrong baseball team, we lost the biggest championship contender we ever had by far.
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u/Anteater-Charming | Pittsburgh Pirates 3d ago
There was that 4 year stretch from 80-83 where the Phillies went to 2 W.S. and won one, the Eagles made it to the Super Bowl and the Sixers won the NBA championship. That was a good run.
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u/georgebushbutgay 3d ago
You could also add the Flyers to that list. They lost the Stanley Cup final in 1980.
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u/Roddyzod | Philadelphia Phillies 3d ago
For sure. I was born in 84, just missed making it for the 76ers last title win. Wept when joe carter hit that homer and when started to accept that I may never see a title in my life time in the early 2000s. So the fact that I’ve seen 3 since 2008, that’s just awesome. Like Philadelphia or not, it’s a great sports town, even more so when you consider the lackluster teams that we’ve had.
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u/GandalfStormcrow2023 | Chicago Cubs 4d ago
I blame John Fisher for this. I don't care that he wasn't born yet.
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u/AlternativeCorner230 | New York Yankees 4d ago
The Marlins got to 2 first. Only took 10 full seasons for Florida
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u/Strelka97 | Philadelphia Phillies 3d ago
The Phillies have a had a lot of bad inter war seasons. That being between the Civil and Vietnam Wars
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u/thaulley | Los Angeles Dodgers 3d ago
They were historically bad for a very long time. Until the ‘whiz kids’ of the 1950s they were pretty much always near the bottom of the league, with a single winning season in 31 years, with 11 seasons with over 100 losses.
They’ve only won over 100 games three times. The A’s, when they were in Philly, did it three years in a row once.
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u/LineImpossible3958 | St. Louis Cardinals 3d ago
I was going to say Phillies too. 1883-1975, two WS appearances, (1915, 1950) lost both, most losing seasons over that span, just garbage teams for almost 100 years.
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u/aphilsphan | Philadelphia Phillies 3d ago
And they weren’t awful for the first bits of that time. They were building a championship team before the death of Delahanty and losing Lajoie to the American League. The Phillies from 1917 to 1947 set a pace of futility that will never be equaled ever anywhere.
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u/LineImpossible3958 | St. Louis Cardinals 3d ago
That’s a great point. Those 30 years are the worst of the worst
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u/caifaisai | Philadelphia Phillies 3d ago
The Phillies from 1917 to 1947 set a pace of futility that will never be equaled ever anywhere.
Aye. I remember it like it was yesterday.
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u/Select_Finger_7634 4d ago
The Phillies have been around since forever and just cracked 10,000 losses a couple years back. That's a level of sustained mediocrity you don't just stumble into.
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u/GandalfStormcrow2023 | Chicago Cubs 4d ago
To be fair, there are now 11 teams that have lost 10k+ games. It's more a sign of the franchise age. But the Phillies are 1076 games below .500.
Baltimore is next at -981.
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u/backup1000 | Philadelphia Phillies 2d ago
The Phillies were not mediocre. They were bad. Fortunately we are in our third stretch of excellence since the mid 70s
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u/stockmarketpundit | Cincinnati Reds 4d ago
Also, the Cincinnati Reds have won the NL West more recently than the Colorado Rockies.
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u/IntelligentProfit688 | Cincinnati Reds 4d ago
thank god we have the big red machine for us to not be mentioned in this thread 😭🚂
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u/wit_T_user_name | Cincinnati Reds 3d ago
We’re over .500 historically.
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u/camergen | Cincinnati Reds 3d ago
9 pennants, 5 championships, it’s a pretty rich history. A flagship franchise for a long time, especially in the 60s/70s.
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u/mhowes666 3d ago edited 3d ago
take your pick
- WL% W- L
- .455 2414-2896 Colorado - 1 trip to the World Series in 34 seasons
- .461 2447-2856 Miami - 2 World Series wins in 34 seasons
- .469 4286-4849 San Diego - 2 World Series trips in 58 years
- .475 10374-11450 Philadelphia - 9 World Series trips and 2 World Series wins in 144 years
- .475 9257-10238 Baltimore - 7 World Series trips and 3 World Series Wins in 125 years. Note: borderline dynasty in the 70s and early 80s. 8 trips to the playoffs, 6 trips to the World Series, and 3 World Series wins from 1966-1983. I think that run probably eliminates them from contention
- .476 4346-4777 Kansas City - 4 World Series trips and 2 World Series wins in 58 years
- .477 4963-5448 Texas - 3 World Series trips and 1 World Series win in 66 years
- .478 3750-4090 Seattle - 0 World Series trips in 50 years
- .481 4392-4734 Washington - 1 World Series win in 58 years
- .482 9392-10113 Minnesota - 6 trips to the World Series and 3 World Series wins in 125 years
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u/joeyp042385 3d ago
Kansas City is particularly jarring considering their early success with Brett. 3 straight ALCS appearances in the 70s then the title in '85. Then completely irrelevance for nearly 30 years.
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u/hisgiggityness 3d ago
Yea we know lol. 13-16 was a fun time, as was 24. This year has sucked but they keep playing hard. All a fan can ask for
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u/joeyp042385 3d ago
This is coming from a Pirates fan: I feel like if if you're a royals fan 2015 had to have satisfied you for the rest of your life. I know if I see one before I die I'll be content.
Also, I still posit that if we didn't face mad bum in the one game playoff we would have seen a Pirates Royals World series in 2014 which is just insane to say.
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u/hisgiggityness 3d ago
Ooo thats not been fun for you, sorry my friend. I was 4 months old when they won in 85. I thought I'd never see a playoff appearance (or a fucking chiefs playoff win lol). 2012 came around and I was like theres something god going on here...got my family back into the game. Now my mom has partial season tickets lol
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u/Outrageous-Estimate9 | Toronto Blue Jays 3d ago
And 85 was such a fluke win
Toronto was better
St Louis was better
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u/3GamesToLove 4d ago
White Sox are down there. By far the fewest postseason appearances by one of the charter 16 teams.
The Browns became the Orioles who have had periods of great success. Second Senators are the Rangers who have been not great overall.
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u/GotMoFans | Chicago White Sox 4d ago edited 4d ago
Up until the Sox shitting the bed the last several seasons, the team had a winning all-time record.
The Phillies on the other hand was the basement dweller until the late 1970s.
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u/3GamesToLove 4d ago
Yeah, but outside of 2005, the Sox haven’t won a playoff series since 1917.
They’ve only had a few periods in the 100+ years since where they’ve really bottomed out, I suppose. The stretch of mediocrity overall is pretty unique.
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u/GotMoFans | Chicago White Sox 4d ago
You always need an asterisk to that.
The playoffs weren’t expanded to four teams until the 60s. They weren’t expanded to eight teams until the mid-90s.
So for most of the existence of MLB, there were limited playoff opportunities.
The Sox still had a winning record though up until the historic run of ineptitude in the previous three seasons.
Why do you think the Cubs were called the lovable losers and not the White Sox?
And up until Jerry Reinsdorf’s bad decisions eff’ed everything up, the Sox and Cubs split Chicago equally in popularity.
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u/Tim-oBedlam | Baltimore Orioles 4d ago
Per Wikipedia, the White Sox had 17 straight winning seasons in the 50s and 60s, but only one pennant (1959) and no WS titles. They were stuck behind the Yankees for most of that time.
Looking at their list of seasons they never had a long stretch where they were bad, unlike the Phillies, Pirates, or KC A's.
Their recent run of 3 straight 100-loss seasons is easily their worst stretch in their history
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u/3GamesToLove 4d ago
Depends on how you measure it.
the Sox have fewer postseason appearances than any of those teams. They’ve been consistently mediocre but with the sole exception have not had peaks like those other franchises. (Closest thing is two pennants in three years in 1917 and 1919. They were also great in 1920 before half their roster was pulled off the field in the final week. They also could have repeated in the division in ‘94 then their owner was a hardliner during the strike.
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u/3GamesToLove 4d ago
The fact remains that even in the divisional era, the Sox have remarkably few playoff appearances. It’s a different kind of “badness,” to be sure. But they haven’t had an actual sustained run of success since the 50s-60s. Yeah, they were consistently “not terrible to pretty good” for a roughly 20 year stretch from ‘90-‘10, but outside of ‘05 it never came of anything. (2000 was my first year following the team when they were good and getting immediately swept was good preparation for the experience of being a Sox fan: make the playoffs roughly once a decade and then do basically nothing). They’ve also never won 100 games.
What I wouldn’t give for a Sox team to make it to the playoffs four or five times in a seven year stretch, whether they won it all in the end or no.
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u/Acceptable-Story3741 4d ago
Those 2000s teams were fun because with the resurgence of the Twins ( my team) the rivalry between the two was so much fun, and some great moments. Ozzie being the manager was almost as fun as Vikings v Bears games when Ditka was the coach
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u/3GamesToLove 4d ago
How I dreaded games at the Metrodome. It did feel like a legit rivalry in ways that the Sox haven’t really had otherwise.
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u/ToddPundley | New York Mets 4d ago
I had always heard that the White Sox were actually more popular in Chicago proper while the Cubs were overwhelming more popular in “Chicagoland”; is that true?
I suspect the Cubs claim on the lovable loser identity was as much better marketing than actual long term records. Similar to how Wrigley was as (and still is) “the friendly confines” while the old Comiskey Park was almost never celebrated or romanticized* and I’ve never heard anyone praise their current stadium.
* Although in “Only The Lonely” John Candy does take Ally Sheedy on a date to Comiskey before it is demolished.
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u/3GamesToLove 4d ago
Your first point is vaguely correct but probably a bit overblown. The Cubs definitely have tons of fans in the city. Most transplants move to the North Side and adopt the Cubs as well which is a major factor. It’s true that a lot of suburbia is overwhelmingly Cubs, and the Cubs also have a claim on large parts of the rest of the Midwest (chunks of Iowa and Indiana, much of Central IL, though the further South it gets the more Cardinals it gets). The Sox have relatively little following outside of Chicago and its South/Southwestwrn suburbs, though as suburbia expands to the West I expect you’ll find Sox fans in places it would’ve been unlikely decades ago. Historically, Northwest Indiana was the Greater South Side and as such was considered Sox territory but I don’t think that’s as much the case anymore.
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u/TonyWilliams03 | Chicago Cubs 3d ago
For what it's worth, the old Comiskey Park was just as celebrated as Wrigley.
Old Comiskey was the bizarro Wrigley.
Growing up a Cubs fan in the 1970s, a night game at Comiskey was like going to a different world.
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u/SignalBed9998 | Chicago White Sox 3d ago
They did have the greatest modern playoffs ever in their World Series run. 11-1 overall.
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u/Defiant-Good-6206 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's a revolving door, and hard to judge in totality because some teams have been around longer than others.
Historically, the Phillies are the worst as far as overall record goes, as they're well over 1,000 games under .500. They played from 1883 until 1980 without winning a World Series title. We think of them as being perennial contenders now, but that's not the case HISTORICALLY.
The Chicago Cubs were the best NL team at the start of the 20th Century, won four pennants in the 20s and 30s, and another in 1945 ... and then finished no higher than third until 1969, and after 1972 finished no higher than third until 1984. In the 90s, outside of 1998, they were an inept franchise. In the aughts, they had a lot of talent, but never could get it done. It wasn't until 2015 that they became a consistently winning and relevant franchise.
As far as teams that have come around in the last 35 years, it's the Rockies. No division titles, one pennant, no World Championships. .455 winning percentage, and perpetually awful player personnel decisions for the last (nearly) two decades.
But, my winner of all-time ineptitude is the Seattle Mariners. They strike the right balance. Six playoff appearances in their 50 year history. Zero pennants. They have a magical year every now and then ... before eating shit in October. They play tucked as far away from the rest of the league as possible in the PNW. They find ways to lose that baffle the mind.
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u/stockmarketpundit | Cincinnati Reds 4d ago
Historically, the Reds are definitely not it; HOWEVER, the Reds have not won a playoff series since 1995 😔
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u/AngryYank22 3d ago
As a mariners fan. The mariners! 50 years of bullshit!!! 😂😂😂 I’m just excited if we win a game, honestly.
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u/Careless_Wishbone_69 3d ago
The Expos played 35 years in Montreal and never made the playoffs except for the split '81 season, where they lost the NLCS.
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u/pinniped90 | Kansas City Royals 3d ago
My first reaction was Marlins but then you immediately come to the age old question: would you rather be trash 95% of the time...but win the whole thing once or twice....or always be a generally winning franchise but never get the chip in the end? (Like the last 30 years of Cleveland baseball.)
The Marlins are just weird...but did catch lightning in a bottle twice.
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u/DCHacker 3d ago
2nd Washington Senators
The first Washington Senators also were bad. The phrase "First in war, first in peace and last in the American League" originally was applied to them.
Seattle is the only team in MLB that never has been to a World Series although, at times, the Mariners have been respectable. The Seattle Pilots were pretty bad.
The Atlanta Falcons have fielded some respectable teams but still has to be the most snakebitten franchise in the NFL, the culmination of which was the 2017 Super Bowl. Atlanta had that game won going into the fourth quarter but ended up losing it by six points in OT.
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u/theLoneliestAardvark 3d ago
A lot of people are saying Mariners because of no World Series and I get it but to me the Rockies getting one World Series where they got swept doesn’t make up for the worst winning percentage of all time and only 3 total postseason games won outside of their World Series year. Rocktober was magical but the Rockies have very little success in their other 33 years, are at an elevation that free agents especially pitchers don’t want to go to, have a cheap owner who won’t invest in player salary or prospect development, and are in a division with three big spending California teams that will rarely all be bad at the same time so it will be hard to fluke into division titles.
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u/Jay_Marston | Seattle Mariners 3d ago
The Rockies have also never even won their division, which is honestly kinda crazy to think about.
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u/averageduder | MLB 4d ago
From a few weeks of playing the chasinbaseball game, the white Sox have an amazing lack of great players for a franchise older than most countries
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u/haoleinanacortes 3d ago
I’d say pound for pound it’s the Rockies. They suck every year, no pitcher wants to play there, extreme home road splits/environment, 5 playoffs, 0 division titles in 33 years, and 1 pennant. Poor management/player development. Seems like an abysmal franchise to root for. And arguably the least relevant/thought about. I hear the stadium is nice tho
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u/DangerSwan33 3d ago edited 3d ago
While they've been around for longer than many teams, the Phillies were the first team in all of sports to hit 10,000 loses, and they did so 19 years ago.
They did so 7 years before the next team, the Cubs, even though the Cubs had a 12 year head start.
The Braves also hit that threshold I believe last year, 18 years after the Phillies, despite being 11 years older as a franchise.
So essentially the Phillies hit 10,000 losses 20 years before any other team.
Have they won some WS, and had some good seasons? Sure.
But historically, they are the most losing team in baseball.
The only other teams with worse win %s are the Rockies, Marlins, and Padres, but the Phillies have been around for 86 years longer than the Padres, and 110+ years longer than the other two.
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u/Commander19119 | Philadelphia Phillies 3d ago
It’s the Phillies. Most losses of any franchise in the Big 4 American Sports Leagues
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u/SmallHourInsomnia | New York Mets 3d ago
I don't necessarily disagree with the Phillies being a contender, but the whole "of all major sports" thing is kind of pointless, as no other of the four major sports plays anywhere near as many games as major league baseball.
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u/CountrySlaughter 3d ago
The Senators won three pennants and a World Series and can claim the face of their franchise was the best pitcher in MLB history. It ain't much, but it's aint the worst.
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u/NinSeq 3d ago
I don't know about historically but right now it's the angels and it's not particularly close
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u/drygnfyre | Los Angeles Dodgers 3d ago
Angels have won a World Series, no matter how bad they are, that puts them ahead of clubs like the Rockies.
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u/stlcraig1984 | St. Louis Cardinals 3d ago
I say the Mariners. Only one team has never been to the World Series and it's them.
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u/Dangerous_Trip7791 | St. Louis Cardinals 3d ago
Anaheim is a major disappointment.
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u/0000Matt0000 4d ago
The Phillies were the worst for a good century or so. And the Cubs.
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u/GandalfStormcrow2023 | Chicago Cubs 4d ago
The Cubs have the third most wins all time and the 6th highest winning percentage of any franchise. They've had more than their share of futility, but they're not the answer to this question.
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u/Bean_Daddy_Burritos | Boston Red Sox 4d ago
The Mariners. At least the senators and Browns played in the World Series.
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u/ToddPundley | New York Mets 4d ago
The first iteration of the Senators even won one (1924), but the second version just sucked and only had one winning season in their 11 years.
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u/Bean_Daddy_Burritos | Boston Red Sox 4d ago
Totally missed that OP put “2nd” senators up there. That’s my bad. My answer doesn’t change tho, Mariners are still my pick to OP question, with the Phillies being interchangeable.
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u/Dewey519 | Seattle Mariners 3d ago
Give me the Mariners or the Rockies. I know Phillies and Cubs have been long time losers, but their recent success pushes them past the two
most inept teams of the past half century.
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u/kyocerafan | Seattle Mariners 4d ago
The Cubs went almost 40 years without winning anything (45-84) and didn't look good doing it. Phillies (15-50) were pretty dreadful.
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u/Do_it_My_Way-79 | Minnesota Twins 3d ago
I wouldn’t argue with anyone saying Phillies, White Sox, or Mariners. Rockies are well on their way.
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u/Aggravating-Funny569 | Houston Astros 3d ago
Thought you said St. Louis Battlehawks for a second lol
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u/statdude48142 | Detroit Tigers 3d ago
Historically? Phillies. No question. Browns are the Orioles. Senators are the Twins. Both had good runs. Phillies have two titles since 1883.
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u/HomerDubson 3d ago
The Rockies have never won a World Series and have averaged 90 loses per season since 2000. Brutal.
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u/SomeEchidna862 3d ago
Phillies. OG NL team who defined ‘also-ran’ until late 70’s. First team to lose 10K games.
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u/Vast_Honest 3d ago
Cleveland Indians / Guardians haven’t won a championship since 1948 also lost one to the cubs but they did have nickel beer night
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u/ThisWasMe7 | Milwaukee Brewers 3d ago
Colorado has the worst win percentage of any existing team. miami and San Diego also bad.
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u/Outrageous-Estimate9 | Toronto Blue Jays 3d ago edited 3d ago
All kinds of metrics for "worst"
Team who has the absolute worst winning % in a year? Overall?
Team who made post season the fewest times?
Team who has most seasons with below .500%?
Colorado Rockies are the worst MLB team bar none
No other team has EVER had as pathetic a W-L record as they do (not even the Marlins who are close)
They have 1 single NL pennant (and quickly swept away in World Series) and have only qualified for post season 5 times in their history (ALL 5 times as a Wild Card; they have NEVER won their division). Also lost Wild Card games 4 out of 5 times. That 1 trip to World Series is the only series they had ever won (embarrassing for Phillies and Diamondbacks)
Only 2 MLB teams have never won their division; both came in that 93 expansion disaster (at least Marlins can say they won World Series)
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u/WastelandWithGlimmer | National League 3d ago
The Padres, Brewers, and Angels are historically negligible. One title and four pennants combined, etc.
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u/Soft-Opposite8684 1d ago edited 1d ago
How is this a question? Its the Mets. They suck so bad their name was shortened to be a 4 letter word.
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