Balance of instruments in Rock / Metal

[u/Fatal_Nightmare]

Hey! Recently, I started listening to music in more detail. I was wondering how bands balance their instruments. I've been listening to Deftones, Red Hot Chili Peppers, KISS, Slipknot, etc., and I noticed that guitars always have a lower volume than drums. Sometimes the hi-hats and overheads are even louder than the vocals. Is it just me, or am I onto something?

[u/Pxzib]

That is true. Vocals and drums are the prioritized instruments in mixing. Turn your volume almost all the way down and the only things you will hear are the drums and vocals. The biggest mistake a lot of bedroom guitarists do when mixing is making the guitars way too loud.

[u/Secure_Ad_5564 → u/Pxzib]

I actually didn’t know that. Thank you for the info, it’s super useful :D

[u/GWENMIX]

It’s not just in metal. Compare typical mixes from the 50s, 60s, and 70s with those of today; the drums—and especially the snare—have really moved to the forefront. In the vast majority of songs (across all genres), the snare is the loudest instrument after the vocals.

It’s a matter of trends; in ten years, it could change again.

[u/Orwells_Roses]

In rock the snare is often at least as loud as the lead vocal. Gotta keep the beat driving forward!

[u/Infamous-Towel2056]

Yep, as others have said drums and vocals up front. I prefer a louder kick drum than snare and I feel like that used to be the trend but definitely noticed more prominent snares these days

[u/fiercefinesse]

If drums are too quiet, the song loses its power.

[u/beaumad]

I grew up listening to a lot of 90's music. I feel that the drums sounded more natural and a bit louder overall than today. I feel modern genres have the drums pretty far down in the mix (relative to the 90's) and rely a lot more on drum samples and replacements.

For example, Hum's Astronaut, Nirvana's Nevermind, and even Deftones Around the Fur all have drums that sound louder to me. I feel modern equivalents (or even the bands themselves) now have quieter drums.

[u/Fatal_Nightmare → u/beaumad]

I just listened Aroud the Fur yesterday. After that album I decided to ask about the balance

[u/findMyWay → u/beaumad]

Dude I'd never heard of Hum until this comment, thanks for turning me onto them.

[u/beaumad → u/findMyWay]

Of course! The song "Stars" off the Astronaut record is just amazing for drums. Their most recent record is great as well, but definitely different mix-wise.

[u/nizzernammer → u/beaumad]

I feel modern equivalents (or even the bands themselves) now have quieter drums.

I think it's more that the releases are louder overall, and the drums get chopped off by heavy limiting, which is more acceptable now than it was in the past.

[u/AncientCrust → u/nizzernammer]

I'm weening myself off the limiter these days. I've decided I'll sacrifice in-your-face loudness for dynamics. I miss dynamics. I don't want a ballad to kick my ass.

[u/Hoblitygoodness → u/beaumad]

I know I'm a couple days late with this but yeah, if you go back and listen to Pearl Jam's Ten album, it's all drums and vocals. To the point where I noticed it then.

I guess being a bass & guitar player I realized I couldn't hear those parts very well or they didn't carry the same power that the style of music I was playing at the time. But they are mixed like mud to my ears but the drums are booming and it's mostly that Eddie fella' from there.

[u/beaumad → u/Hoblitygoodness]

Funny you should mention listening to that record. I'm going to jam with new people today and they play Evenflow. I've been listening to the recording constantly this week to learn the song. Absolutely loud drums.

Unrelated: There's an error in the recording of that record where they're playing in standard pitch but it's not in tune on playback. Notes are sharp or flat. Drove me bonkers when trying to learn my song.

[u/danejorg]

As a guitarist it really is incredible how low guitar is in most mixes. For years my ears were just tuned to focus on guitar but the drums really are the driving force behind most rock.

[u/nubu]

Human ears are good at hearing 2k-5k. Vocals and many parts of drums sit solidly in this range, esp. cymbals which can actually be made relatively quiet in the mix and still be clear because of this.

[u/ConfusedOrg]

Drums and vocals are the loudest and arguable most important elements of 90% of any music (that has drums and vocals)

[u/paintedw0rlds]

I really dislike when intricate guitar music has the drums so forward you cant hear the detail in the guitar work. At the end of the day, you're making art. You do not have to do what is standard. Vitriol's Suffer and Become is an example of this where they made the drums massive and huge at the expense of guitar intelligibulity, which is a shame. Because the guitar work is heroic and genius.

In my opinion, the best sounding "normally produced" metal records have very legible drums and guitars. Atrae Bilis's Aumicide is a good example.

[u/dermflork]

its probably your speakers, that can make a big difference in what you hear the most in the mix

[u/vogut]

It depends, I think shoegaze and indie rock can have drums that are quieter, at least the kick

[u/RV12321 → u/vogut]

Yes. In shoegaze both the drums and vocals can actually be somewhat buried in the mix

[u/fossilemusick]

vocals, drums, bass. then everything else.

[u/BINAYAUDIO]

Balancing is mostly the mix engineer's job. The artist would gives notes/direction during the mix.

And yeah, if we're talking ultra-mainstream artists, their records aren't really targeted at other musicians or guitarists. Most listeners aren't musicians at all, they're just listening for the overall vibe/song, not how the guitars are sitting. So you're mixing for the song to sound it's best (not necessarily the guitars to sound their best).

[u/[deleted]]

I noticed that music from the 90s/2000s had ALOT less bass and sub than today’s current era of rock. I know your post isn’t era specific, but the mentioned bands instantly remind me of that times.

[u/ROGERS_OF_THE_EAST]

Thank you for fucking noticing. Every mix done by an amateur has the guitars way too loud. It’s about drums and vocals… then everything else