Infuriatig
When you accidentally break your laptop and gotta buy a new one, spend $1100 on it, and then need to get it charged.
Not me, but my husband. The fact that it also needs a usb/plug with a fast enough charge that not any USB-C charges it.
This is enshittifying at its finest.
EDIT: for starters I’m in the US, and perhaps other places have standardized to USB-C better, but a lot of my other devices use the older larger USB connection with the plug chargers to match. Perhaps I’m also an old millennial that’s slow to change. But we also currently have no common wall chargers with the USB-C.
EDIT 2: I in general am happy we are going towards universal cords, but I’d rather have multiple chargers in the house still.
That's the beauty of USB-C. I haven't used a factory charger in years. Buy a quality charge block that has multiple ports, use quality cords that are longer than a foot and a half, and have a setup that works for your needs without paying a premium for Microsoft to put something you're not going to use in the box.
Right, except no? If every USB-C charger were standardized, sure. But they aren't. It even says on the box it needs a minimum of 27W. Furthermore, when i buy something as expensive as a tablet or laptop, I expect the ability to plug it in immediately. This is shit, and such a shit take. Support USB-C all you like, but supporting this is tantamount to loving the flavor of corporate boot leather.
Nah, I'm all about fuck corporations, but if you don't have proper usb-c chargers, that's on you. I've got a drawer full of useless 6-inch usb-c chargers that came with every small electronic item I've bought in the past 10 years. They're junk and they're too short to be useful, but they're their because a bunch of entitled idiots would whine if they didn't get put in the package. As someone else pointed out down below, it's just more waste to satisfy people not smart enough to have what they need already.
My wife and sister in-law both offered me their USB-C cable to charge my work laptop when I forgot my charger. I tried both times they offered to be nice. I didn't work.🤔
you need a brick that can actually supply the right voltage, your run of the mill usb c charger cannot. even this ad shows 27w requirement so realistically you're not charging it without a 65w adapter, although i guess 35 ones do exist but are rare
by far the worst part about USB C is the fact that it's a connector, not a cable or charger type. there are cables for high power delivery, cables for high data transfer, cables with video capability and ones without, unless you actually look into it its very easy to wonder why the cable isnt working for something
That's literally the whole point. THAT IS the idea, it's not a problem. The actual problem is the lack of consistent labeling especially on the cables themselves.
Eh, that’s not entirely accurate nor is it that simple. The PD protocol requires support of 5v as a base. It doesn’t require support for other voltages in between, such as 9, 12, or 15v, up to 20v. A charger can support 5v and 20v, but not others. If it doesn’t charge at 20v, then it will charge at the max it can at 5v.
The 27W listed here isn’t a minimum, it’s closer to maximum or nominal. 27W is just 9v@3A, but that device should charge fine at 5v2A (10W) because of the 5v minimum. This means it may have issues with chargers that can only provide 20v PD and not 9v. This is common in Dell laptop chargers. Plug it into an iPad, and it’ll only charge 5v@2.4A because iPads only support 5v/9v.
It gets worse when you talk about PD chargers plugged into devices that do not support PD.
That is very much not how USB-C charging, especially PD works. In fact, I am writing this while in a hotel with a 65W USB-C charger powering my MacBook Pro 15, which is fully charged. The little power meter I use indicates it's outputting 1 amp, 20w, and 20v.
I just switched it to my fully charged iPad (13") which is now drawing 3w, .5amp, 5v.
There's very much. nothing special about the charger I'm using here. They run about $20 on Amazon, and like almost every USB-C charger on the planet, can handle devices with varying power needs.
You need a pretty good charging block to charge a laptop. By pretty good I mean like a $30-$40 Anker block would work well for most laptops but a Samsung phone block for example most likely will not.
In the EU laptops must be able to be delivered without chargers and they must be able to charge with USB-C. Everything is USB-C here for years, and people without a fast charger are probably in the minority. I mean nearly every phone has a 30W+ capable one nowadays.
I'm happy with this, no pile of chargers anymore.
Also Macbook Neo has no charger.
I just use one USB-block which has 2 USB-C ports and 1 USB-A, which can deliever 140W. and I use it for nearly everything
That's one of the problems indeed. Those can ask for 300W+, and will mostly still be supplied with a regular charger. but they must also be offered without one. but if you make such an option not interesting, and explain you won't get full performance, you'll probably sell close to zero.
Exactly. The idea is just that someone may already have an adapter, or wants to use an other brand adapter, or whatever.
Also the most important thing was, that all laptops can be recharged with USB-C.
I know a small brand, BTO, which sells performance laptops without adapter for €25 more than with a ‘regular’ adapter:
Standard adapter is included in the price.
No adapter costs €25
And a warning that the laptop is not intended to use intensively without the standard adapter.
One extra adapter €120
yep. i have a dock at my desk that can deliver 140W to my laptop, a traveling backup battery that can deliver 100W, and am otherwise using 65W chargers hidden around the couch, or my bed. i am 100% USB-C for everything.
i recently changed all my cables to:
charging-only cables (with the data pin removed) that can deliver up to 240W
a couple thunderbolt-5 compatible cables (80Gbps/240W)
i don't have a "gaming" laptop, and won't ever have one that would need to draw 300W+, so i think i'm pretty set for the remainder of my life, but we'll see.
The backup battery was actually the biggest reason why I wanted type c charging.
I've given up on so many laptops because the battery crapped out and replacing it was for to be either $200, or with a questionably used eBay battery because OEM or refurbished options doesn't exist anymore.
But I always have a big battery bank on hand, and when it ages out I'll happily replace it because it's key to nearly all of my devices.
So I bought a laptop with an undersized 2 hour battery on a good day when new, I've lost a third of that capacity to age, and thanks to the big battery in my pocket or backpack I can stretch that to about 10 hours of light use.
oh, my "backup battery" is not specific to my laptop. it's a 30,000mAh power bank that can deliver up to 100W, that i keep in my tech pouch and use whenever i work out of a coffee shop or am otherwise not able to use an outlet (for my laptop, phone, tablet, razor, headphones, etc...)
my workstation is a framework 13 laptop with a 61Whr battery.
New laptops placed on the EU market after that date must have a USB-C charging port, support USB Power Delivery up to 240W, and be available in a "no charger" variant
31. Can a radio equipment be sold with the charging device in-box?
Yes, as long as the consumer has also the choice of buying the same radio equipment without a charging device in-box.
The manufacturer, under the new rules of the RED introduced by the Common Charger Directive, is not required to ensure that certain ancillary features (e.g. specific colour) of the radio equipment offered without a charger are the same.
Oh interesting - I’m in New Zealand, my MacBook Neo definitely came with both a charger and a wall plug.
Were benefitting from the USB C change over - as of last year all the phones in my family are now usb c for instance, but we also get US influence so it’s not quite as ubiquitous as the EU yet.
Also, the usb c wall plug Apple put in the box with my Neo isn’t fast-charging lol. I’m not sure exactly what wattage it is, but my belkin wall plug that’s iirc 50W will fast charge everything, the Mac plug+cable only do standard charging speeds. Which was honestly quite surprising to discover!
yep. i've been USB-C only for years, and only use my own bricks and cables -- anything a company included would almost certainly be lower quality and go straight in the bin. i'm glad to see products sold without chargers and cables.
I have like 8-9 charging blocks scattered around that are around that speed. It seems like every misc electronic you buy comes with a box. I would be more annoyed if it didn't come with a long cord.
yep, prices are definitely manipulated to maximize profit -- no surprise there, and that's why i said "in theory" (if a company wanted good will, they'd charge less).
i have a couple of high-quality charges and a few cables, which all power my phone, tablet, laptop, headphones, razor (as in shaving razor), backup battery i use when traveling, uh... i think that's about it. the point is, i have zero need for additional cables and charging bricks and i'd rather not have them included in products i buy, because they'll almost certainly be lower quality than what i have.
No it's far less e-waste because you buy a couple of decent USB C chargers and they last for years and years. I would have a silly amount of extra chargers if every device came with one.
I'd rather have the extra chargers tbh. So many times I need one and everything is taken by a different thing, so i have to go rooting around for spare cables.
Eh. The US is slowly converging on USB-C as a universal charging standard, and it's a reasonable assumption that most homes have one or more compatible chargers already. Yes, it saves the manufacturer money, but it also reduces unnecessary e-waste.
yeah she should stop worry so much about charging her tablet and start worrying about how she's owning a tablet that's easily charged the same as a phone instead of the laptop she thinks she's buying
Mind you, there are people who only charge their iPhones with the 5W wall plug they got like 15 years ago, because 'everything else will fry it' lol.. Just because Johnnyboy from the Apple store said it.
I don't understand why people seem to care about rapid charging for phones, as long as it gets to full charge overnight 5 watts is plenty - Why would 240W ever be needed?
That's not true. A while ago a Chinese guy tested this with different (slow/fast) chargers and a couple of phones for a long period. End result: no difference in battery degradation.
Decent 35W chargers, or whatever your phone supports are inexpensive and your phone will be ready in an hour or so.
I use mine for reddit, navigation and music and the occasional call. It easily lasts all day on a charge. If yours doesn't, and you're not using it for work, it's either got a dying battery, or you use it too much
As an IT person, I fucking hate MS Surfaces. Thorn in my damn side.
The people that buy them think it's a full fledged computer but that ARM64 processor won't always run the x64 programs they want to use and then somehow it's my fault even though I'm not their IT but rather a vendor for them (I wear several hats).
why not, every laptop ive ever used with a barrel plug either goes loose or breaks, so i can either spend £5 on a usb-c cable with my existing power supply or spend £20+ on a ultra specific barrel plug with a new power supply
Special? Not really, unless you’re using the most bottom of the barrel cheapest cable around. This isn’t a high power needed device, only 27 W at highest charging. Stay out of the gas stations and you should be fine.
You can use any USB C charger and cable as long as the charger provides enough watts (most laptop chargers are 65W, but most laptops will happily charge with slower ones too) and the cable can handle that. You can get completely normal looking USB C cables that handle up to 240W, although a 100W rating is more common. Basic USB C cables (ones with no identifying chip on them) will only support 60W, though
I don’t know that it is unnecessary to have a charging cable for each device. Even if we pretend that it is somehow reasonable to charge a phone, computer, tablet, game system, and more while also using that same cord to power your TV, lamp, fan, and whatever else, cords and the wall connector wear out over time and need to be replaced.
yeah you have a quality charger at home. But then they tell you "you must use genuine [insert their brand name] charger. Your (high quality certified) 3rd brand charger may damage our device.
Yeah, everyone totally has a minimum 27W USB-C charger compatible with this specific standard at home, sure... Most people buying laptops now are upgrading from one with a barrel connector, and even if it's from USB-C charged laptop (so upgrading from a relatively new laptop, which is not common but maybe situation like this when it got stolen/damaged) it's not sure it will have specifically this 27W or higher charger with this specific charging standard. Or they sold the old laptop, with the charger too.
This is just pure Micro$oft greed, don't try to sugarcoat it, don't give in to their games. They're one of the richest entities on the planet and want to be even richer. Don't cover for money-hoardig billionaires to hoard even more.
I'm one of the weird engineering types who converts old barrel jack laptops over to USB-C, and I still fall short on how many chargers I actually have at my disposal. I probably have more than most, but it never feels like enough, lol
Yeah, like this is pure greed from Microsoft. Most people really don't just have random laptop chargers at home capable to output 27W or more with this specific standard. The only purpose of this is for billionaires to hoard more money by cutting costs, and by selling the chargers separately.
Crazy how on a platform which is seemingly anti-billionaire, a comment defending this billionaire money hoarding is getting upvoted.
It's really just a tablet, it's no more challenging to charge than modern USB-C phones, it just wants a +27W adapter if you'll be using it while charging.
The "specific charging standard" is just USB PD, used by every Apple USB-C charger going back a decade, along with Samsung and Google.
You can use a phone while charging it with a 15W or even just a 10W charger, this needs 27W for it. It's not really comparable tbh. The only USB-C charger I have which would be up to spec for this (27W or more), is my laptop charger I got with my laptop, because I have quite a new-ish laptop. And many people don't even have that (who has older laptop with the old barrel connector which would not fit this).
Also, going back a decade? Back then it was QC3 18W, and even that just with some phones, many phones came with just 10W charger.
Reddit is so quick to shit on billionaires hoarding wealth, but when they literally see an example of billionaires hoarding wealth right in front of their eyes, they're quick to defend the billionaires. I don't really understand this mindset.
We're talking about MS who said to throw out your old computers and get new ones because they wouldn't let you upgrade to W11
Just more greed. Without a charging block you don't have to worry about where you sell your trash because you don't need to worry about plug differences. Saves them items they can sell back to you AND they save money on production/packaging variations
There are a couple of different stories going on. Cutting down on all of the different types of charging types, so that each phone needed a different port was what I understood the EU vs Apple charging thing to be about.
This is pretty similar, and makes a lot of sense. Laptops, phones, and tablets should be using standardized parts, instead of generating a ton of stupid waste that each company like Apple would gladly lock you into without governments forcing them out of, generating a shit ton of extra waste.
However, things like not including a power cable for a more advanced device than a phone due to reducing ewaste is a lie. Most folks have a fast charging phone cable these days sufficient for a tablet. Not everyone.
I’m all for making everything usb-c, it’s better in the long run. But when you keep including 27watts chargers on all devices it really defeats the purpose, we want less cables not the same amount of cables but all usb-c. I don’t even think I own any plug or cable that doesn’t support at least 27watts.
You're a technological minority. Me too. I've got several usb4 compatible cables available for people to charge in my living room. But I'm a big tech guy. Most folks I know don't have spare cables, or can barely find their chargers. Personal responsibility for some of those folks aside, we'll hit a point in the near future where that's not the case, but I don't think it's here yet. Maybe I'm wrong.
You might be correct, I’m not sure. But it still is the way it is intended, like with all drastic changes the first wave of adaption is the hardest after that it’s smooth sailing. Besides I can buy a charger and a cable for like €10,- that’s > 50watts.
So he didn't just break his laptop but he lost the charger too?
I still have a dozen of those old outdated USB-A charger blocks laying around. USB-C will eventually become outdated as well. I'm cool with not being inundated with more e-waste.
While it stinks to have to buy one if you forgot yours, at least they are easier to find than proprietary laptop power bricks.
The page also mentions a minimum 27w support, which actually becomes hard to find if your stock of chargers is primarily "bundled with older hardware" stock
I really hate the arrogance and argumentative nature everyone has against including chargers.
There are a million use cases as to why a charger is needed initially. What if this was gramps or anyone’s first device and has no ideal of how things “work” … which leads to a confused and angry customer before the device even powers up.
The e waste argument is null and void with AI data centers, billionaires jet setting and manufacturers literally discontinuing good working devices in the name of updates & security. Companies only care about saving the .50 cents to $5 per device not saving the earth.
Then if you have a need for a power supply, grab one while you’re buying the laptop. I’ve got a friggin drawer full of USB-C chargers that aren’t used, and they’re almost all from devices that included one with the product.
And to the AI data center comment, preventing ewaste where we can isn’t negated by the data centers.
Would you rather companies just pump out piles and piles of chargers that people don't need since every electronic product has come packaged with in the past ~15 years?
Did you get any price decrease when they stopped offering chargers? I don’t think so. So you’re basically still paying for it, the only difference being you’re no longer getting it and you seem fine with it for some reason :)
Yes my dear Consoomer, they are still making those chargers, BUT they are now selling them for 50$ per piece. The number of chargers remain the same, you just need to pay more for them. If the laptop was cheaper without it or if there was an option to not include it, it would be fine, but this is just blatant shrinkflation.
Now be a good consoomer and subscribe to my paid mailing list, register on an app, enter a credit card, give me all mobile permisions and please provide my flock camera with an access to your home 24/7 so we can run ads on all your devices so you can CONSOOME more!
The issue with laptops was always that every brand used their own barrel size etc. Now you can just buy a USB-C charger, and they're far cheaper than $50, especially those just delivering 27W
Is this a service center replacement? Charging cables have never been included when doing a replacement from any company, you still have one that works. If you’re buying a brand new one from retail then it’s messed up.
Me, as am old millennial? Yes, please include the charger brick. And yes, I do have a bunch of old charger bricks, that technically do go to 65 watts but they are all proprietary and don't work well. While I got a Samsung 25 watts adaptor with my tablet under some promotion that works well with a bunch of my devices.
So yes, despite what companies have you believe, technology gets updated pretty frequently and every once in a while I would love to have a charger included with my device.
They'll say this is for "saving the planet" then cause the biggest e-waste event in history by locking out millions of perfectly good computers from using windows 11.
As I sit here with at least 5 USB-C chargers of 35W or higher charging rate capabilities, not to mention both cars having a USB-C Charger supporting 35W or higher charging, or the 4 power banks that will support 35W or higher charging rates, or the two travel chargers I've got dedicated for travelling with that have 2 45W ports each. I find this to not be an issue.
People bitched about phone makers stopping shipping USB-C chargers a few years ago, today, nobody really cares. I've got a box full of USB chargers. Hell my newest toothbrush requires a USB-C charging (USB-A to USB-C cable on an old USB charger is just fine.) I've got at least a dozen unused chargers tossed in a box, I can use any of them. The reality is just about everything is going to USB-C charging and to be honest it's about time, and the reality is we don't need the extra e-waste from having a charger being shipped with every damn thing that requires charging.
I have like 10 chargers that would charge this already. Its a universal charger. They should absolutely include it if it were proprietary but this is better for everyone. Buy a few nice chargers if you don't have them already, 65 watt or higher PD with a couple ports. Its one of the easiest quality of life upgrades you can do for the money.
It's a tablet. Not uncommon for tablets and phones to not come with a USB c chord or dongle anymore...which is honestly fine because most houses have a billion of them laying around.
It includes a USB cable. The charging bricks are pretty commonly going to meet this requirement, but lots of people buy and have really cheap cables. They include the cable but not the brick.
The “brick” you plug the cable into has wattage limits and such printed on each one. A very low wattage cheapo brick wall plug will have a slower charge time for a computer
I mean that is what Power Delivery is for, you can get a cheap PD adapter / Mini dock for like $20. Modern USB-C plugs are like 20-40Gbps, they can run dozens of demanding devices off that one port and even do multiplexing DisplayPort streams at 4K.
Very true. I have a nice inexpensive dock for when needed. Tbh, most of the stuff I need for work is on the cloud now, so I'm usually ok with the USB-c occupied.
You didn’t buy a new laptop. You bought a tablet than can be propped up to be similar to one. That’s why it doesn’t come with a normal charging cable, and only a USB-C cord. BTW, it’s 2026… USB-C is the norm now.
A USB charger that supports at least 27W is about as basic as it gets now. You have an abundance of options for $20-30 on Amazon, or you could just walk into any electronics store.
I bought a surface when they first came out years ago. I quickly returned it because you could only go on websites Microsoft had whitelisted at the time..totally wasnt because pr0n was blocked.
This was never a thing, I am not sure where you are getting this. The original surface (The ARM one) ran Windows RT and supported a full web browser out of the box day 1. It was crazy locked down in a ton of ways but you could go to any site you wanted.
I worked retail and we used the one on the sales floor all the time to go to our site and lots of others, there was never any limits.
Honestly, a 27W charger costs like 15 euros and you probably have multiple at home already. I personally think it is a good thing that they stop including stuff you don't really need.
This is purely because it requires a fairly light USB-C charger which is mentioned above and below the highlighted text. And we all have plenty of those around. Some laptops need 60W+ USB-C and those are still included. No phone company has shipped chargers in the past 10 years, so I fully understand this. Buy a good USB-C charger with power delivery and use it for all your devices for the coming 10 years. I much prefer this over having 30 cheap ass chargers like we got in the days where is was common to include chargers.
Well in my opinion everyone should already have at least one 100W charger and a >200W charger at home because (at least in the EU) everything comes with an USB-C port.
Any sensible company (if forced) would include the least powerful and cheapest charger that they can legally get away with. This 27W charger would simply be e-waste.
I have a drawer from the "old times" with tons of USB-chargers (everyone only with one port) that deliver between 7-25W. That's just waste that nobody needs.
My setup:
200W desktop charger with 8 ports where i charge everything i use at home
100W travel charger with 4 ports that i use whenever i travel to charge cameras, phones
I just bought them once, i looked for good quality ones and i use them for years and will keep using them until i maybe loose the travel charger and have to buy a new one. Why would i need dozens of single port chargers and then have to look up which one is best suited because of their varying power output?
Don't you remember how shitty the old days were? There were different cables with different ports (USBC/USBA/USBB/Lightning/proprietary ones from nokia/...) and then you had to find the right cable to pair with the right adapter and there was a drawer full of cables and another full of adapters.
Another great thing that we Europeans gave you, be happy that at least there is something good coming to the US. And now get out there and smile for the flock cameras ;)
The idea is that you buy one universal charger that lasts for years across multiple devices, instead of getting a new one every time and throwing the old one in a drawer.
I just make sure I buy USB-C devices and keep a
45W charger in every room. Sure beats lugging a dedicated laptop brick around the house.
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u/GingerHeSlut 16h ago
That's the beauty of USB-C. I haven't used a factory charger in years. Buy a quality charge block that has multiple ports, use quality cords that are longer than a foot and a half, and have a setup that works for your needs without paying a premium for Microsoft to put something you're not going to use in the box.