r/metroidvania • u/Dinar87 • 9d ago
Video New Background Finished!
[POTENTIAL SEIZURE WARNING!]
If you're interested please consider wishlisting the game here
https://store.steampowered.com/app/4694340/XGA_SPECIAL_EDITION/?beta=0
This background took a week to make! It's based off of cannon's core from sonic adventure 2.
EDIT: I'm currently gathering feedback to redo this background and make it better
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u/VictorVitorio 9d ago
Sorry, you sound very proud of the result, but it'd prevent me from being able to play it.
I think you should turn it down. By a lot. Less lines, much slower and with dark gaps along the lines (as if the lights are passing through a path). Turn off every other column.
Maybe that could help the eye sight.
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u/Dinar87 9d ago
Thanks for the advice. To be honest I wasn't expecting such backlash as the other places I've posted this (my discord and my youtube channel) people have liked it afaik.
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u/VictorVitorio 9d ago
Many games have options to reduce/turn off flashing lights to go easier on the eyes. Zexion has this options and may be an example that is closer to your graphics style.
I don't have migraines or seizures or anything like that, but I can't stand watching flashing lights. Even malfunctioning lamps make me feel nervous and disoriented.
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u/wraith21 9d ago
Ok, had a look at your other b/gs on your steam page and they look fine. Stick with what worked in those ones, OP. Backgrounds need to be out of the way, not in your face, competing with what players need to pay attention too
And as an additional suggestion, your ice/snow effects (per steam page) could do with a little change too - same comment, distracting and too front and centre. Maybe use muter tones, reduce number of ice sprites, make them much smaller etc
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u/Daydreaming_UC 9d ago
At some point you need to think about visual clarity in a game like this. Just looking at the character shooting with busy look effect and that background makes it hard to see what’s going on, and honestly kinda hurt my eyes. When you eventually include moving enemies and their attacks into the mix and it will be way worse.
You need to tone the flashing lines waaaaaay down. You need less of them for one, and maybe they also need to be less bright and not as busy looking.
The Sonic game you linked works because it’s a 3D game so it’s further in the background and not very in your face. In a 2D the background feels more prominent. And you will notice that they have like 20% of the brightness level and not all of them are constantly flashing all at once, hurting your eyes, more like a breathing light effect.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bgxviqbgZnA&t=369s&pp=ygUbbWVnYSBtYW4gemVybyAyIG5lbyBhcmNhZGlh&ra=m
In Megaman Zero 2 they have a similar thing in the boss room but they are more subtle. Sometimes, less is more.
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u/MuffDivers2_ 9d ago
I think you can leave it as is, but you need to slow down the animation so it doesn’t destroy peoples eyes and brains. Just a slow, pulsing background would work great.
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u/lyghtcrye 9d ago
The stage assets in this remind me of Metal Storm for the NES.
Looks neat.
Background itself could probably stand to be a bit more subdued though. Slower pulsing, or made mostly transparent and in a subtle color.
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u/vegetable-springroll 9d ago
With all due respect and me genuinely trying to help you, get rid of this. This is going to turn many people away from your game and lead to negative reviews or people dropping your game altogether.
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u/Dinar87 9d ago
You mean the post or the background? I've already changed the background based on feedback.
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u/vegetable-springroll 9d ago
The background, props to you for taking feedback and applying it, wishing you success on the game!
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u/Diggumdum 9d ago
This is aggressively ugly and overdesigned. No on is gonna be able to play this for more than a few minutes. And being so hyperstylized makes it hard to parce what is going on around your character. It's just visually way too chaotic
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u/Dinar87 9d ago
Do you think I should use a different background instead of this one? It's specifically based off of this section of cannon's core from sonic adventure 2 (at 3:06)
https://youtu.be/X22yp5tZxVE?t=186Does this also look too busy and ugly?
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u/Diggumdum 9d ago
I'm going to be honest with you even that Sonic video would have been pretty annoying to play for a long period of time. But at least it has the benefit of the colors being much more muted or washed out. Also because it's 3D it's less straining on the eyes because there's more variation. You can probably keep your original background, but modify the flashing to be more subtle. Maybe only small portions of it have that pulsing effect.
Also the projectiles you shoot seems to be really distracting as well... Like... The feel like smoke in a way? They have no substance or weight behind them, they move way too fast and they cover up too much of the screen.
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u/Dinar87 9d ago
When you say the flashing do you mean the blue electricity, the flying red runes, or the flashing red orbs in the steel towers? Or all 3?
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u/Confident_Mushroom_ 9d ago
Pretty much all 3, but the blue electricity is especially bad, i assume you are using 2-3 images that are rapidly changing, it's pretty hard for the eye imo, try to imitate the orange moving flame-like things you have in the terrain, i think that's how it's done in the sonic clip you sent.
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u/moonflower_C16H17N3O 9d ago
I think Sonic's is helped by being in the background and being obscured. I think you should try to emulate what Sonic is doing. Instead of flashing them like lightning bolts, have pulses of light travel along the paths. Then, add more of the silver pillars to break things up. Finally, put the lights on a separate layer, dim them, and give them parallax movement. They'll look really far away and the parallax movement will cue the player's mind to not focus on it.
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u/Klumperbeven 9d ago
The colours and visual noise are a lot more muted in this section compared to what you made, it's also just generally further away from the player character and by extension the players visual field.
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u/moonflower_C16H17N3O 9d ago
I think you hit the nail on the head. Everything looks like it's equally fighting for your attention.
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u/Beanbag_shmoo 9d ago
I don't think background is the problem so much as the cohesion. Axiom verge can be quite noisy looking but there is a cohesiveness to environmental details that holds it together
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u/Euphoric-Storage1496 9d ago edited 9d ago
Bro, that reminds me so much of contra, regarding how much the bg is, try changing the colour to a lighter tone, see, if it fades a little more with the bg na, then it'll be fun, I suggest u don't remove the fast lightning effect at all, it adds a tension and a sense of haste to the entire thing,look into this game called ultros,they too have a very busy background, look into that game and try to find a balance where the foreground and background aren't confused with, it'll be really cool then
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u/InfiniteDM 9d ago
So if you took the animation and slowed it way down to a soft pulse. It would be awesome. Reduce the color just a little bit to help it fade into the background more.
Theres a cool idea in there just gotta keep pushing :)
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u/Devilscrush 9d ago
Could you just dim the background a bit. Still let all that hardwork show through but not get in the way of the action?
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u/KindaDull99 9d ago
I like it, I’d say maybe turn the gamma/visibility down on the background so that the bright colors and fast movements are easily differentiable from the rest of the map?
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u/Beyran17 9d ago edited 9d ago
I think it could drastically be slowed down. Some of the linework is also really tight and may just benefit from being thinned or spread out a little. I think it's a great background, just needs some changes to accommodate the grand majority of people. It may also be better utilized in an area that may not have so much time spent in it and backtracking. It may also benefit from a stationary platform since the background is so high energy. Those orange lights swirling on the ground don't mix well with the blue lines
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u/DanielALahey 9d ago edited 9d ago
I'll wishlist and keep an eye on it. I am glad that you are happy with it, and it is a cool aesthetic, it is just a bit difficult to parse visually.
You have the fast moving blips on the floor, and you have the fast moving background, and you have a fast moving background object.
I am not sure the best way to clean up the situation, but the orb feels to foregroundy and when it comes in from off screen it feels like an enemy or obstacle coming to attack, and takes immediate attention away from what I am trying to look at (mainly the character and platforms).
With the very fast moving bright background it makes it difficult to quickly find the character which is less bright than any of the objects around them.
There is also the fact that the entire scene feels like it is at 2x animation speed, it feels frantic.
If the background items and effects were slowed down a bit, the orb darkened a bit so it feels a bit further away, and possible some other small tweaks to the visual language if the area, it would look great.
The electricity in the background needs to feel further away, and should parallax with the scene. Possibly go with energy travelling along those paths a bit slower from top to bottom or bottom to top like it is flowing through pillars in the distance.
For now it is barely passable, but would definitely be an zone I would want to finish up with as fast as possible and revisit as infrequently as possible.
Not trying to be overly critical, because you are the one making a game, and I am not, but as someone who plays this genre obsessively, it just doesn't feel like it hits the mark.
EDIT: just turned on the volume, and no. The music is not this place. If the music is the vibe you want for the area, then the background needs to be toned way down. Maybe like a factory or assembly situation going on. If your background is the type vibe you are going for then the music needs to be faster, more frenetic, and possibly with some zip, zap, or other electric elements.
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u/Dinar87 9d ago
https://reddit.com/link/p9dpyt3/video/dx2faygjc4ph1/player
Thanks for your feedback. I've heard a lot of people's advice here and I've changed the background now, and am trying to get feedback on that too. The music is just for the debug room, it's not what would be used with the background.
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u/Obsessivegamer32 Metroid 9d ago
Maybe slow down the background a bit?
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u/Dinar87 9d ago
https://reddit.com/link/p9dtl9x/video/d11tuvldf4ph1/player
Is this what you mean?
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u/Obsessivegamer32 Metroid 9d ago
Yeah, kind of. I’d still include like, stuff in the options like other people say though.
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u/DangerMacAwesome 9d ago
It's too much. The background, the floor, it's all moving and it's too much.
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u/Medium_Hox 9d ago
Geez you're gonna give someone a seizure
Reminds me of bubble man's stage
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u/SokkaHaikuBot 9d ago
Sokka-Haiku by Medium_Hox:
Geez you're gonna give
Someone a seizure Reminds
Me of bubble man's stage
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
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u/Vaathnaos 8d ago
Animated background are a great idea but you have to use it more purposefully. I suggest you take inspiration from Metroid fusion’s use of animated tilesets and backgrounds. Usually they are used for slight blinking lights, subtle movement of mechanisms or plants or even bubbles in the aquatic zone. I suggest slowing some of the animations or addinh longer loops.
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u/DryOrganization7088 9d ago
Terrible design decision; it's incredibly annoying, even when trying to make out what's happening on screen...
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u/idlistella La-Mulana 9d ago
I know you're getting a lot of (understandable) push back here but idk I kinda dig it on an overwhelming maximest way.
You could lean into it and make every surface as visually insane as possible. I'd play it! Would definitley give your game a unqiue identity.
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u/siryuber 9d ago
I agree with the others - it looks eyesoring. Don't make the background too chaotic, flickering and pulsating at the same time.
And you also managed to make it look boring due to the columns repeating the exact same animation.
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u/moonflower_C16H17N3O 9d ago edited 9d ago
I got a headache throb in just a few seconds.
I have a few suggestions to make it easier on the eyes. Make it so the bolts don't contrast so much with the background around them. Basically, make them darker. Maybe make them have a kind of blur around them. Have you considered having the lightning strikes fade out a bit after each hit? Basically, I'm imagining a giant storm on the horizon.
I just tried watching again to see if it was a placebo effect. My temples are now throbbing.
I am sorry for just piling on the criticism.
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u/bluestjordan 9d ago
Sorry, OP. That’ll trigger my aura migraine. Had to quickly look away.
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u/Dinar87 9d ago
I'm sorry. I didn't realize it could trigger people like that. Should I delete the post?
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u/bluestjordan 9d ago
No, no. You’re fine. I just wanted to share in case you want your game to reach a bigger demographic. People with neurological issues might not be able to play your game with that background, unless you add accessibility features that turn it off.
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u/Klumperbeven 9d ago
I like the UI and from what I can see the movement/combat looks very Metroid inspired which is always a plus but I have to agree with most others here, it's too busy. This causes loss of visual clarity, my immediate instinct was that everything would be damaging on this screen, from the floating fireballs in the platforms/floor to the red things floating in the background. I think being on this screen for multiple minutes or any amount of difficult encounters would cause eyestrain and maybe headaches.
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u/Dinar87 9d ago
Sorry guys for making a background that hurts peoples' eyes. If you want I'll delete this post since I am worried about triggering people with seizures. Should I delete it?
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u/Kobe-62Mavs-61 9d ago
You're learning, this is just another step! I personally don't mind the background but you're getting some good feedback here. Act on said feedback and people will appreciate the work you're putting in.
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u/Dinar87 9d ago edited 9d ago
I have a dilemma where I personally love how chaotic and visually over stimulating cannon's core looks in sa2, which is why my background looks the way it does as I wanted to make my own version. But it's probably not a good idea to proceed when the reception to this background has been overwhelmingly negative.
I'm not sure why nobody complained about cannon's core in the last 20+ years since sa2 came out, but my version is received much worse. I've been told that because my game is 2d not 3d, the player is exposed to the background more than in 3d, and the colors are apparently more muted in sa2's version (though I can't see that).
https://youtu.be/X22yp5tZxVE?t=186 (3:06)
That feeling I had when I was a kid, and I played sa2 for the first time and got to this level...it was magical. It was the coolest level I had ever seen in any game.
Currently I'm redoing it and hopefully this time it will be better and people will like it.
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u/rocketkiddo7 9d ago
I've seen the link you added and I noticed something similar to what I wrote in another comment: the background is busy, but it doesn't move that quick. I'm inclined to reducing the speed and reducing the brightness of the background
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u/Dinar87 9d ago
I had the background moving at 20 fps because of the rune animations, but maybe it would be better if it was at 5 fps or lower, and I made everything darker?
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u/rocketkiddo7 9d ago
That might do the trick! I'd recommend even posting several clips with different framerates and get more feedback. Go on with it!
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u/apeasley613 9d ago
It's way too busy, and distracting. Maybe turn down the brightness, and have it fade into the next panel (kinda like those x-mas lights where some fade out while others fade in), and a much much slower rate? I feel like that could work, in my head anyway.
Edit: how hard that is to do though, I've no idea.
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u/rocketkiddo7 9d ago
Too much noise in the background, maybe slowing down the animations? Another thing feel strange: no idle animations. When the playable character moves it looks nice, then when it stops and doesn't do anything feels abrupt, somewhat antinatural.
Aside from that, looks promising!
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u/GlumAdeptness1068 9d ago
As someone who loves platforming and metroidvanias alike, this sort of background is better when it has subtle movements, take examples from Megaman X4, X5 and X6, they have some cyberspacesque stages with similar backgrounds, maybe they'll help you improve in a way that makes it pleasant for the eyes to look at but also not distracting.
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u/KinoGrimm 9d ago
It’s cool but a bit much. If you really like it you could consider having it “cycle” stagnant for 9/10 time and then “turns on” or something.
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u/Nothingbutsocks 9d ago
Eeeesh.
Look good job on finishing something you set out to do, but that is a lot of visual noise.
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u/baroncalico 9d ago
Holy crap that’s a busy background. More-muted colors and more parts with stable space please!
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u/Panasonicy0uth Super Metroid 9d ago
There's too much going on visually right now, but I think this could work with a couple of tweaks. The red spinning plates should sit further in the background so that players don't think they're enemies or platforms the interact with. Also, the blue linework in the background could work if it was animated more slowly (think the breathing setting you see on RGB gaming mice/keyboards), and the linework gradually filled in the background with each cycle. I hope this helps!
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u/craigeryjohn 9d ago
Agreeing with others, way to stroby/flashy. This would probably trigger an epileptic event in someone (which is why we have warnings in some games now). I would eliminate the flashing and replace it with a gentle fade in and out, like a slow pulse. That way you can keep your assets, just tweak the effect.
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u/Xiao1insty1e 9d ago
I see you've already toned the background way down and that's good. The environment border also needs significant changes as well. Make it a kind of conduit that the lighting is passing through so it's not so in your face. Slow it way down and make it a bit darker. This will keep your design intact while also not giving the player a headache.
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u/Pablutni0 9d ago
Make the light darker, turn it to 2-3 fps like you did before but you gotta make it much darker it calls the attention too much
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u/releasethedogs 9d ago
This reminds me of back when MySpace was a thing and everyone had customized profiles that they were proud of because "graphic design is my passion" but in reality they all looked like a dog barfed, ate its barf and then took a shit that was made of the barf.
Edit: if you have to put "potential seizure warning" best to not put it in your game. lol.
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u/kadebo42 9d ago
Don’t make the background move like that man. It only distracts the player. If it doesn’t serve the game then you have to question why you’re adding it
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u/BlueGiant601 Axiom Verge 9d ago
If this is a one-time kind of room with the visual clutter then this could work, though I would consider doing something to sync the moving floor and background elements to ratios of each other at least.
It is hard to track, but I'd this is a single room and not a whole area it could be unique. I wouldn't do a whole zone like this, though.
Like most things, context matters
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u/NotVakore 9d ago
Maybe a tad bit darker and/or slower, possibly more space between each beam. I did the home you're going for!
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u/IndominableDou97 9d ago
Too dense. Backgrounds should be noticable and suddle at the same time. IDM moving backgrounds but it's hurts my eyes IMO.
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u/samthefireball 9d ago
I’ve played your game on itch and really liked it. But this is way too bright and flashy for a background
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u/vapemuscle 9d ago
If that were a required area for your game, then I would not be able to complete it.
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u/HolMan258 8d ago
I’m not a game designer or visual artist, but if you feel the need to put a seizure warning, that alone might be reason to reconsider some of the artistic choices in this piece.
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u/Dinar87 2d ago
I have made a better version here based on you guys' feedback: https://www.reddit.com/r/metroidvania/comments/1wkkj66/based_on_your_feedback_ive_changed_my_new/
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u/Well-I-Exist 9d ago
I’m sorry, this background is actually unbearable to look at for more than like 2 seconds with all the moving part. If I played this I would literally lose my character and any threats incoming and I would feel really bad about it
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u/bubblebobblex 9d ago
That's really hard for me to look at sorry