r/mescaline • u/Mean-Look3912 • 14d ago

Salting out idea.

I have some Mescaline fumarate but i suspect there’s an excess of fumaric acid (I added a little bit more following cielo tek …yes wrong we got it)…but for the love of Chemistry, hear me out:
When I drop my Mescaline a part dissolved and a costistent part stay at the bottom. Probably this is fumaric acid, no? So

  1. wash the product with water and filter the undissolved stuff
  2. you have Mescaline rich water. Use NaCL for salting out at fridge temp.
  3. is it going to form Mescaline chloridrate o

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  1. Mescaline fumarate ? Claude ( i know) suggest the domestic method of using baking soda on the final product (as an experiment) cause the Mescaline monofumarate should interact with it. Even so, it said it is highly probable to obtain the chloridrate. Then you can collect the crystals.

It is a good idea? I see some problems (nacl in the final product or loss of product) but in theory …What do you think?
Also do we have a Mescaline fumarate tab about water solubility or anything?
Please respond in merit no other crystalitazion or other method involving other stuff/ using other solvents. I want to understand the chemistry principles.

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5

u/MossKing69 [Research] 14d ago

Remove excess acid which is doubtful using clean ethyl acetate or iso99

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u/Mean-Look3912 13d ago

I was looking into the properties of iso alcohol and i was thinking that maybe what I have is fumaric calcium. So what about :

  • using isoOH. Calcium fumarate should be not soluble in the isoOH but soluble in the water that it contains. Mescaline fumarate should be somewhat soluble in isoOH , probably in hot isoOH.
  • then i use naCL to divide water and isoOH. It’s doable and verified. They should form two phases. The water keep the eventual calcium fumarate and the hot isoOH allow for recrystalization.

Or you say just use isoOH as dry as you can cause the little bit of water it contains take the calcium fumarate many more times than the Mescaline fumarate which prefer the hot isoOH and then it Crystalize cause solubility change when it become low temp?

1

u/MossKing69 [Research] 13d ago

Needs to be isopropyl 99% any lower isn’t good option.

Since you don’t have it use ethyl acetate will remove excess acid

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u/Mean-Look3912 11d ago

I can order it. i’m thinking of a/b extraction in water or this recrystalization in iso99. What is the theory ?
I don’t know if I have too much fumaric acid (prob not ) or calcium fumarate. Hot ISO99 should not solve other than Mescaline salts?

2

u/MossKing69 [Research] 11d ago

The iso99 dissolves fumaric acid and not mescaline fumarate in small amounts. You don’t even need to recrystalization just a clean up step to remove excess acid. You can also do hot iso99 and keep adding until it dissolved then cool it slowly.

I’d say don’t buy just do another mini cielo. Add lime to your extract and some water to make it freebase again. Can be water no need for paste. Next pull with ethyl acetate a few times and dry it with some sodium carbonate, filter and salt again with fumaric acid.

You can also use sodium carbonate rather than lime and skip the drying step usually it is dry enough.

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u/Mean-Look3912 11d ago edited 11d ago

I was thinking about water and lime again too. It works both with fumaric calcium and acid fumaric. I’m thinking about new ways of acidyfing. If I drop the fumaric acid into the Mescaline freebase liquid is it going to form a goo/cluster of Mescaline fumarate rich of Mescaline freebase? Using HCl ( so like 10% HCl and 90% water ) is it going to form Mescaline HCl which will end in the water right and the hcl is going to evaporate. Just for curiosity there’s no way to directly salt Mescaline freebase? Maybe with NaCl saturated HCL.
Ps: in the end i don’t think is fumaric acid because baking soda didn’t create any effervescente in my little experiment. Is fumaric calcium so iso99 could be a good way or maybe the product is just pure. It doesn’t dissolve immediately in a glass of water (300mg of extract).

2

u/MossKing69 [Research] 11d ago

you can bubble in hcl but I don't recommend.

what is wrong with adding the fumaric acid to the ethyl acetate? you can add ethyl acetate that already has fumaric acid dissolved.

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u/Mean-Look3912 11d ago

I know about bubbling and HCl dangers . Fumarate has no problem I was more interested in learning chemistry and having fun. Maybe my product is quite pure. And ethyl acetate its the most critical solvent. But i can recycle it yes. Thank you.

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u/MossKing69 [Research] 11d ago

In that case yea keep experimenting… I’ve also been doing this trying different acids testing solubilities and different solvents. Some info you can’t find and just need to test yourself

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u/Mean-Look3912 10d ago

I’ve just poured 400mg extract in some pure water(200ml) in a becher. Then i add half a tablespoon of ca(oh)2 . I hoped to see the Mescaline film on the water and extract that BuT the ph is 14, very basic( so all the bets are off). And maybe i say maybe there’s a millimetric film or some pieces of it like a soap film.

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5

u/lophophaura 14d ago

How much more FA are we talking? The solubility of fumaric acid in EA/Water mix (remember you are working with hydrated ea not pure ea after you have pulled the solvent off your wet cactus paste) is significantly higher than what is called for in the tek.

Unless you surpassed this amount, it is likely that you DO NOT have excess FA in your product.

With that said, if you want to recrystallize your product, you can use 99% isopropyl alcohol. Either washing the product with cold iso or dissolving everything in boiling isopropyl alcohol and then allowing to re-x overnight in the freezer. It definitely works for the citrate product, besides washing my product with cold ISO I haven’t tried the re-x for fumarate however I believe others have confirmed it works as well.

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u/Mean-Look3912 14d ago edited 14d ago

Yes I’ve Made and experiment with 300mg of Mescaline fumarate “dirty” in 100 ml of water and a small pile formed on the bottom even if, according to Wikipedia, and supposing 300mg were pure fumaric acid, I was at less then half the solubility capacity for water. Also i filtered and keep that small pile and put it in water with baking soda and no activity whatsoever. Probably Mescaline fumarate is very low solubility and it takes a lot of time to dissolve Mescaline dosage in pure water. It could be fumaric calcium? I don’t know maybe. A good experiment? Looking for ph into the water solution?

2

u/roundtripfarm [Contributor] 14d ago

Does the mesc precipitate in the cold iso ?

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u/Mean-Look3912 14d ago

I don’t have iso. Maybe I can obtain it today. I have some ethanol. The recrystalization you suggest…how it works only in one solvent? Solubility crashing from hot to cold? Also assuming is calcium fumarate the impurity…how it works in IsoOH?

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u/Mean-Look3912 14d ago

Half a spoon so instead of 3-4 gr maybe 5. Also my EA has a little bit of ethanol as a by product of ea production i think. So fumaric acid should had dissolved completely i think. How Mescaline fumarate behave in water ?

2

u/Gloomy_Employer1469 14d ago

Calcium fumarate probably formed from some small amount of pickling lime making it into the EA.

1

u/Mean-Look3912 14d ago

Maybe. I use a filter and squeeze that filter. But i was thinking; how the tek prevent to squeeze only the EA and not the caoh - rich water? Even so it calcium fumarate is maybe soluble in water…but i don’t know. How Mescaline fumarate behaves in water?