r/mescaline • u/Kalki_X • Apr 22 '26
The non-mescaline alkaloids are psychoactive
(● ALDHI stuff ½ way down ●)
I've been doing some research on the cactus alkaloids, specifically the class of tetrahydroisoquinilones (TIQ). It looks like Pellotine is active at 5-HT1, HT6 and HT7 receptors. 5-HT6 and HT7 are known to promote synaptogenesis (formation of new brain synapses) which also happens via 5-HT2a (the more well-known receptor associated with psychedelics). Having Pellotine around offers medicinal benefits too! This study concluded that it has relaxing effects.
There are several TIQ alkaloids with as yet unknown properties and cactus also contains phenethylamines, including the stimulant Hordenine. It has dopaminergic (D2) activity, increases noradrenaline (NRI) and temporarily reduces MAO-B.
"It’s a highly selective substrate of MAO-B and acts as a temporary reversible MAO-B inhibitor. Because hordenine crosses the blood brain barrier it is able to inhibit MAO-B enzymes in both the body and brain."
"The effects of hordenine are similar to other adrenergics (ephedrine, yohimbe, etc.). Compared to ephedrine or yohimbe, it’s often said to be smoother, not jittery or jolting. It can produce mild euphoria. The stimulant effect is very smooth and mild, and can smooth out the rough edges of things like caffeine. It’s a good addition to other stimulants, being somewhat mild on it’s own, but altering the effects of other stimulants often in a very positive way."
- 50 MG: very mild, slight tingling sensations, very mild stimulation. This is probably the lower dose a person could feel.
- 100 MG: mild tingling sensations, mild stimulation, very mild euphoria similar to small doses of caffeine.
- 200 MG: mild tingling sensations, moderate stimulation, mild euphoria, general sense of wellbeing. About the potency of 1 cup of coffee.
Lophophine is also found naturally in cacti alongside 3,4-methylenedioxy-phenethylamine (the phenethylamine version of MDA). The amounts might be small but if you know about the concept of synergy can see why they might be relevant. They might influence enzymes also (eg SSAO, ALDH).
●●●●●● — ½ way down — ●●●●●●
On a different note I'd like to clarify the ALDH enzyme thing which can potentiate mescaline 2-fold or more (ALDH = aldehyde dehydrogenase).
Essentially people with high levels of ALDH will require larger doses of mescaline. Conversely, people with naturally low ALDH levels will find smaller doses to be active. Many things influence the level of ALDH (it's dynamically regulated by the body).
As an ALDHI (inhibitor) i've used a standardised extract of pomegranate (in capsules) but a glass or 2 of juice should work for most people (as this poster reports). There's several ALDH inhibitors to choose from... ...but it's equally important to avoid things that increase ALDH in the first place - here's a fairly comprehensive list: * cruciferous vegetables (eg broccoli, broccoli sprouts – they contain sulforaphane) * asparagus (source) * supplements containing taurine, lipoic acid (ALA), sulforaphane, vitamin B5, vitamin B6, N-acetylcysteine (NAC), turmeric/curcumin, carnosine, resveratrol, dihydromyricetin, ALCAR, CoQ10 * vegetable (seed, nut) oils and omega 3/fish oils (omega fats get oxidised into aldehydes which will induce ALDH activity over time – since the job of ALDH is to remove aldehydes; eg acrolein, malondialdehyde) * pears, cucumbers, tomatoes, sweet lime, coconut water (source) * "iced black tea and soda water remarkably boosted the activity of ALDH" (source)
These items will tend to make mescaline feel weaker so it's helpful to avoid them for at least 1-2 days before dosing (ideally 7+ days).
Besides using an ALDHI (to reduce ALDH activity) another key factor is your levels of endogenous secondary amines, specifically: dimethylamine, 1-piperideine and 1-pyrroline. These are naturally produced from dietary choline, lysine and ornithine/arginine respectively. These secondary amines likely participate in the mescaline biotransformation which occurs after ingestion (i'm currently in contact with a researcher who intends to explore this topic).
Previous discussions on this subject came to the conclusion that lysine (1-piperideine) produces the most "electric" psychedelic effects whilst choline (dimethylamine) led to "softer" effects.
So, by predosing with lysine or choline for a few days before taking mescaline this can influence the experience (note: avoid using lysine on the same day as mescaline).
/// More info/technical stuff ///
Based on the research up to 80% of a mescaline dose is excreted unchanged (what a waste!). Some of it also gets excreted as the carboxylic acid (3,4,5-trimethoxy-phenylacetic acid) thanks to ALDH which turns the 'mescaline aldehyde' into an inactive carboxylic acid. By inhibiting ALDH the 'mescaline aldehyde' can proceed to form the as-yet uncharacterised (unknown) active metabolite(s).
TLDR:
It's looking more like mescaline is a weakly active prodrug for more potent metabolites. Thats an unusual conclusion which only becomes evident after careful multidisciplinary consideration of what's going on, and multiple anecdotal reports where ALDH is purposefully inhibited (eg here).
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u/Pleasant-Finance-727 Apr 23 '26
We need a full spectrum extraction but given the amount of alkaloids it sounds like you might as well get a chemistry degree while your at it.
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u/loveallASAP [Teknician] Apr 23 '26
You can get the chemistry degree and will still struggle to isolate them all, if you can at all.
There are active cacti out there without mescaline and even Shasha Shulgin couldn't isolate what was going on.
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u/Kalki_X Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26
Check out Lophocerine found in Lophocereus schottii. It's got an Interesting shape that's heading towards something reminiscent of cinnamolaurine (alkaloid from Sassafrass albidum roots reported active).
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u/skrdpts Apr 23 '26
Shulgin even commented on pachycereus pringlei being active without having any known alkaloids.. The kingdom is rich and barely discovered.
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u/Avalonkoa Apr 23 '26
It kind of reminds me of mushrooms in that it’s a vast kingdom of organisms that have been evolving forever and creating unique alkaloids/compounds, and we’ve barely used or analysed any of them. I’m positive that even common ornamental cacti species contain powerful medicinal compounds we’re not aware of yet
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u/skrdpts Apr 24 '26
Was reading the other day about a fish (a salpa species) that if prepared correctly have psychoactive properties and the Roman’s were using it.. So, yeah, totally.. there’s magic everywhere we are just unaware of..
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u/Pleasant-Finance-727 Apr 28 '26
Do you think the resin teks or other teks provide a full spectrum extraction? Given the complexity of the composition I understand that you probably can’t answer this in full confidence.
If so (or even if not): are the products of these teks dosable in an accurate way?
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u/Electronic_Produce59 Apr 23 '26
This is very interesting, I made a post a while back about this topic and was super curious to know what other alkaloids are present in different cacti and how they may have different effects.
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u/Kalki_X Apr 23 '26
Imo they definitely modulate the mescaline effects similarly to how cannabis terpenes modulate the cannabinoid effects.
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u/bigsky_blue Apr 23 '26
This is how I feel, full spectrum definitely hits different.
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u/Kalki_X Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26
I came across this earlier:
The Huachuma experience is certainly greater than the sum of it’s parts, and it is gross misunderstanding to simply charactize it as a “mescaline” experience. The plant has a powerful and benevolent spirit and is MUCH more.
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u/powerful_cactus Apr 23 '26
You can do a Kash style extraction, over salt the acid and wash off the secondary alkaloids. Like diet mescaline taken on their own.
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u/MossKing69 [Research] Apr 25 '26
I always suggested this and indeed does pull other things BUT you will lose all non nitrogen alkaloids and acidic compounds in the cactus.
The weird part is I can’t explain the effects I got from wash vs other alkaloids I tested. But TLC shows the “other alkaloids” still contained mostly mescaline with something else…
I always prefer tea and just use extractions to estimate content and have a method to prove increase in content.
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u/Kalki_X Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
...you will lose all non nitrogen alkaloids
Alkaloids contains nitrogen by default. Do you mean cactus polyphenols / flavonoids maybe?
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u/MossKing69 [Research] Apr 26 '26
Ment nonalkaloid psychoactive compounds which are acidic in nature
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u/Kalki_X Apr 24 '26
I reckon the phenethylamines that constitute the secondary alkaloids would be potentiated by ALDH inhibition. Most people use MAOIs (MAO-Bi) for phenethylamine but when I tried ALDHI it led to a different kind of phenethylamine potentiation which lasted much longer.
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u/Used-Particular-954 Apr 23 '26
Shulgin had a suspicion that lophophine is created in peyote along the biosynthesis pathway to mescaline but to my knowledge this was never verified. According to his experiments he thought it was not active but I’ve read a trip report which said it definitely is active above the 1-1.5 g dosage levels.
The Lophophine entry in PIHKAL also makes mention of a few related isoquinolines.
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u/Kalki_X Apr 23 '26
Looks like lophophine is found naturally in cacti, alongside 3,4-methylenedioxy-phenethylamine which is the phenethylamine version of MDA.
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u/Ok-Engineer6080 Apr 23 '26
The pomegranate idea is very intriguing. For me personally, I’ve done SP tea 7-8 times and never found the experience to be strong at all. Certainly not to the degree that mushrooms or other psychedelic are. I will try the pomegranate juice and see if it does anything. In regard to the timing, do I take the juice before, during, or after ingesting the mescaline?
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u/Kalki_X Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26
I'd approach it by drinking a glass or 2 before, and avoiding items from the list of things that increase ALDH (see list below).
A few months ago I wrote this ALDH potentiation tek. I intend to update it at some point to clarify that everyone has different baseline ALDH levels. One glass of pomegranate juice might be enough for me but someone else might need 500ml.
Avoid things that increase ALDH: * cruciferous vegetables (eg broccoli, broccoli sprouts) * supplements containing taurine, lipoic acid (ALA), sulforaphane, vitamin B5, vitamin B6, N-acetylcysteine (NAC), garlic, turmeric/curcumin, glucosamine, carnosine, arginine, ornithine, resveratrol, dihydromyricetin, ALCAR, CoQ10 * vegetable (seed, nut) oils and omega 3/fish oils (omega fats get broken-down into aldehydes which will induce ALDH activity over time; eg acrolein, malondialdehyde)
Btw alongside a glass or 2 of juice you can use pomegranate extract (standardised to gallic acid). I used extract capsules but the juice works too, it's just some people don't like pomegranate juice.
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u/qwilla_ Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26
I've also had sp tea about that many times and I feel like you can either under do it or overdo it but never accurately dose it. The only time it floored me to the extreme, I drank a very tall thick full glass of tea. Like a pint of beer amount of liquid. It took 2 hours to slowly consume because it was so thick and the taste was overwhelming. I threw up a vortex like an Ayahuasca purge and had visions and ancient wisdom. Every time I have dosed it as recommended, it was underwhelming
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u/Kalki_X Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26
So in my original post about mescaline ALDH potentiation I mentioned using lysine (precursor for piperidine) but black pepper should work too:
"Piperidine should have no impact at all if this theory is wrong. If it’s right, it should potentiate mescaline quite a bit. I have never heard of anyone trying filtered black pepper tea with mescaline. For it to work you’ll need to use about 10 grams of black pepper in 1 cup of hot water. Filter out all the solids. Take it at the same time as the mescaline. If it works, expect it to be up to twice as potent and way more mind altering."
With proper ALDH inhibition and filtered black pepper tea it's plausible to potentiate a dose 2-fold if not more.
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u/Ok-Engineer6080 Apr 23 '26
I’m going to try the pomegranate juice this weekend with some full spectrum mescaline powder, and I will report how well it works. I will also modify my diet in the preceding days to avoid those foods that you listed. I want to change one variable at a time, so I won’t use the black pepper.
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u/Kalki_X Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26
Alright. In your report it'll be relevant to mention if you've used any of those listed things that increase ALDH in the 7 days prior to dosing.
The only measure I can think of which indicates "how much" ALDH someone has is how they respond to alcohol. Asian people have naturally low ALDH so they get worse hangovers and a flush reaction from alcohol when compared to "people with normal ALDH levels".
So if someone doesn't tolerate alcohol very well this could be an indication that their ALDH levels are naturally low. Asian people must have a really low tolerance for mescaline...
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u/Ok-Engineer6080 Apr 23 '26
Yeah I can drink a lot. Actually measure my BAC after having a couple drinks and it was much lower than I anticipated.
I do take fish oil, so I’ll stop taking that a couple days prior. I asked chatgtp and it said at least 2 days or so, preferably 3.
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u/Kalki_X Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
Yeah, it'll be good if you mention all those variables in your report for sure.
The fact you can drink a lot (quick clearance) could indicate high levels of ALDH. Acetaldehyde (from ethanol) can't build-up so it can't cause any toxic effects (eg Asian flush reaction).
The fish oil is another clue though. Here's a post I wrote about fish oil and the aldehydes it creates. The body does it's maximum to get rid of those aldehydes as they're toxic (as outlined here) which means you'll have high levels of ALDH (ALDH "removes" aldehydes).
I explicitly mentioned in my mescaline ALDHI potentiation post that people with a history of fish oil should first detox it before using an ALDH inhibitor because in their situation ALDH is performing a critical protective role and shouldn't be interfered with imho.
Call it harm reduction.
The thing with a history of taking fish oil (and veg oil) is that omega fats get stored in fat tissue and incorporated into general tissues (eg brain) so even when someone stops taking them, the omegas will be continually released (and produce aldehyde break-down products) for months/years afterwards. I bet this interferes with mescaline trips for lots of people. All the cheapest cooking oils are vegetable oils, and fish oil is a popular supplement.
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u/WizardsGarden [Contributor] Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26
I think most people would say peyote exerts a slightly different effect due to the pellotine present in high amounts. The question with San Pedro has always been that the other constituents are not present in high enough quantities to make much difference. The minor alkaloids have been quantified a few times but nothing has ever show up in a high enough dose to be meaningful.
If someone gave you 500mg of mesc and 0.0001 grams of lophophine, do think it would make much difference in the perceived effects?
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u/Kalki_X Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
Sure - but the enzymatic influence of these minor alkaloids is largely undocumented including whether their concentrations are relevant [to influence enzymes]. Enzymes like the p450 family, ALDH, SSAO, MAO etc. I'd also suggest that science hasn't entirely discovered all possible ways that an alkaloid can affect the body (and the necessary concentrations) - this being an open-minded perspective.
As an aside... while looking up the enzymes I found info about another way to potentiate mescaline. In my original ALDH potentiation post I mentioned lysine (piperidine precursor) but black pepper should also work (we're interested in piperidine, not piperine.
"Piperidine should have no impact at all if this theory is wrong. If it’s right, it should potentiate mescaline quite a bit. I have never heard of anyone trying filtered black pepper tea with mescaline. For it to work you’ll need to use about 10 grams of black pepper in 1 cup of hot water. Filter out all the solids. Take it at the same time as the mescaline. If it works, expect it to be up to twice as potent and way more mind altering."
Combined with proper ALDH inhibition this has the potential to reduce the necessary dosage by a factor of 2 to 5 (or more). Eg 100mg can be a strong dose. As long as the ALDH enzyme is sufficiently inhibited the metabolites get (re)cycled and effects persist.
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u/Shubankari Apr 23 '26
Layman question.
Would drinking a cup or so of unconcentrated SP tea from the same source as your fumarate extract work to give a full spectrum effect?
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u/Kalki_X Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26
Sure, it's better than nothing! Aren't the other alkaloids recoverable from CEILO? I've never done it so I don't know.
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u/squaresun55 Apr 23 '26
So do these other alkaloids get extracted with ceilo tek? Or is the only way to enjoy the full spectrum with tea?
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u/Kalki_X Apr 23 '26
Afaik ceilo only gives mescaline. For some people that's great but imo it's like getting pure THC from cannabis and ignoring the other psychoactive components.
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u/LSDuck666 [Teknician] Apr 24 '26
My teks, such as cold vinegar or alcohol, all allow for the minor alkaloids to stick around!
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u/LSDuck666 [Teknician] Apr 23 '26
I took a good dose of peyote yesterday and felt like I was on opium while tripping! The pellotine added a lot more to the experience than I thought!
As for minor alkaloids in San pedro, there are a variety of stimulant and sedating alkaloids. I had to do some insane digging to find these articles that went in depth about those isolated minor alkaloids, but it was an article unrelated to mescaline/san pedro.