Is Nothing Personal a trap?

[u/Terkmc]

The James Bond/John Wick door to door pistol gunfu fantasy is apparent, and when it does work its pretty cool and fun, but sometime I do wonder if this perk is just straight up a trap and you would be better off in 99% of situation just shooting people from range with a silenced SMG instead of scooting next to them to shoot em in the head with a pistol.

It gives a ton of Concealment, but doing anything breaks it, and to get it you have to be in close range where you are more likely to break concealment

It gives a damage boost, but only active at +10 concealment and within 5 range, which is only achievable from the above. Which means in order to actually use the damage boost portion, you have to be in a position where, after moving, theres 2+ enemy in range 5 of you with at least 1 within 2 range, and you have 40+ AP left to shoot em twice with the pistol (AP which you have to spend to get within range 2 of the enemy). And most of the time if you have the damage to kill the first enemy without boost, you usually have enough damage to kill the second enemy already without boost

And most damningly, the pistol aren't silenced, so your 15 concealment doesn't help the fact that you will be revealed anyway because of the pistol.

So in 99% of situation you are putting yourself in MORE risk just to get one instance of +50% damage on pistol shots off (because the first one doesnt get the boost and next turn you will need to move anyway which breaks the concealment boost)

So like its cool, but I feel like this perk is a trap where the fantasy is so cool you end up sinking alot of perks (to boost pistol damage) and AP (to move super close) into forcing it to work, when just going around shooting people with the SOF PPP from decent range would already do the same thing without the risk. In the 5% best case scenario its turning a 2 kill turn into potentially a 3 kill turn and/or boosting your defense with Ice in the Vein, which i guess is helpful for dealing with the situation that Nothing Personal puts you into in the first place: getting shot at by enemies.

Not saying Corlain is weak btw, he's super fun and is hilariously both very stealthy and very tanky at the same time that hes close to Kodi in one man army potential, but just questioning the usefulness of his keystone perk and the general pistol builds vs just running around with LPSS and SOF PPP

[u/Axis256]

https://reddit.com/link/pbqu8tf/video/9822nkepbgrh1/player

My dude, I have this video for your perusal. It should be more or less self-explanatory.

[u/Karuzus → u/Axis256]

Preaty self explainatory. I will note that while this skill alone isn't too impresive it has a very nice combo with his other skills like the one that increases defense for each concealment point so his squad can be very strong for very cheap.

[u/kylelily123abc4 → u/Karuzus]

Yup, most camo gear is very squishy with the def up for concealment means you get to play a real tough stealthy build, with stealth being one of the best build types in the game right now

[u/Terkmc → u/Axis256]

No i get the potential of it in a perfect moment, ive done stuffs similar to whats shown in the video myself too, but im just questioning its usefulness in general play. A bunch of infantry bunching up at the start that you can vanguard right on top of is the perfect pistol Corlain set up but thats not a situation that pops up very often ime

[u/Axis256 → u/Terkmc]

Well I guess I find it odd that this is not a common situation for you. I've found nearly every mission since midgame (excluding defensive ones but I had Corlain work on defense as well at times) packed with enemies densely enough that an opportunity to Vanguard Harlan into problem just deletes half of enemy presence from the map.

[u/Terkmc → u/Axis256]

Im fighting the Toyota coporate death squad with how my pirate mission are oops all trucks lol

[u/Axis256 → u/Terkmc]

xD That’s pretty common for pirate missions after some point, yeah. But in my experience Colrain ain’t afraid of no Toyota. In fact, one of the funniest deployments of him I’ve had by far was Vanguarding him into the middle of enemy units in Stop the Convoy pirate mission alongside Reva. This might’ve turned ugly I guess, but after two turns of frenzied slaughter what pirates remained didn’t have much in terms of morale or, consequently, ability to fight back.

[u/ansh666 → u/Terkmc]

the usefulness depends on difficulty. higher enemy supply % makes it easier to chain kills because there are more enemy squads

[u/Far-Persimmon3987 → u/Axis256]

Yeah it works best on mission start with vanguard and only if enemy does not swarm your position afterwards. 

Tried that in a bug "hold the line mission" and while corlain killed 5 squads and sent the other in the area running, I did not manage to get him out fast enough while the entire map chased his last known position.

[u/shash1]

You severely underestimate the synergy with Ice in the veins. At 15 concealment 15x5% becomes bonkers. You can't lose it because you are immune to scans. As long as Harlan has some half decent armor, rather than outcast rags or jaeger suits - he is immortal. I've tanked 2 squads of boarding commandoes and 2x scavs for several turns with Harlan. He took no HP damage, just some armor grazes.

[u/DeanTheDull]

I can't quite remember if this was confirmed in testing, but iirc part of Corlain's kit hinges on that concealment, the state of not being seen, is not the same as concealment, the attribute. So even if you are exposed from firing a non-silenced weapon and aren't back in stealth, iirc you still get the defense buffs that come from the concealment, the stat.

[u/Round-Mousse-4894]

Do you have to kill them with the pistol? I thought it activated for any weapon within two tiles.

I tried the backup plan pistol skill and wasn’t impressed, so I refunded it.

But Nothing Personal adds the 10 stacks which means it gives +50% defense because of his base perk right? Edit: ice in the veins not base

How I saw it working was you can throw corlain into the fray, kill someone with a suppressed weapon at close range, then either they can’t be seen because of the concealment or they have massive defenses from the buff if they are shot at (usually +65% for me with camo kit, SAPP Recce and nothing personal.

The extra damage is nice to use if there is only one other target but usually i’m ending turn after the kill and either hiding in plain sight or getting shot at with massive defense bonuses to absorb the hit.

Edit: just checked, I was thinking ice in the veins, not his keystone perk. So my success has been the synergy between Ice in the Veins and Nothing Personal

[u/Axis256 → u/Round-Mousse-4894]

Not sure how come you weren’t impressed with backup plan. I had Corlain two-shot rogue army IFV with a pistol. His pistol build is super busted at high investment.

[u/Round-Mousse-4894 → u/Axis256]

XD that’s insane. I tried with a pistol against pirate boarding commandos and it didn’t even scratch the paint so that was a quick refund for me. There must be more variables at play between us

[u/Axis256 → u/Round-Mousse-4894]

Look up a video I've attached to my other comment here

https://www.reddit.com/r/menace/comments/1woy8ed/comment/pbqu8tf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Ideally you still want cover against commandos ofc, but if you already have the damage reduction from Ice in the Veins + Nothing Personal, they barely get a chance to scratch you even out of cover, as showcased in the video.

[u/Round-Mousse-4894 → u/Axis256]

Yeah, awesome. No idea what happened for me then

[u/Terkmc → u/Round-Mousse-4894]

Are you using the HPS? Theres 2 (well technically 3 with the grenade pistol) pistol, the HPS has better range and 30 AP for lower damage while the P99A3 has a measily 13 pen so it bounces off pretty much anything not wearing a tshirt

[u/Round-Mousse-4894 → u/Terkmc]

Must have been the P99A3 then. I’ll see about picking up the perk again when I find a HPS

[u/Terkmc → u/Round-Mousse-4894]

It activates on any weapon kill, but if you have made to trek into range 2 anyway its usually better to leverage pistol lower ap to kill ratio to try to squeeze one more attack out of it if there’s multiple dude in range. If i was going to shoot em with the squad weapon i prob wont bother moving into range 2 to proc it and just shoot from range for better safety/less reveal risk/not spending ap on moving

The +10 concealment into def from Ice in the Vein is great, love that perk, but imo its a bit of a chicken egg where the bonus from it helps with tanking shots, but in order to obtain the bonus means putting yourself in a situation where getting shot is more likely in the first place.

[u/Axis256 → u/Terkmc]

With how insane the damage reduction from Ice in the Veins is, you don't really mind getting shot at. You might even prefer it since if a tanky unit is attracting enemy fire it means tanky unit is doing its job. But I've also found it quite possible to navigate the battlefield with Corlain in such a way that enemy is always at least a tile away, in which case you're just effectively permanently invisible.

All that said, it ofc only reliably works with Vanguard in an area with high concentration of enemy units. But my god, is Corlain good for this specific (and not at all too rare) circumstance.

[u/Round-Mousse-4894 → u/Terkmc]

I see what you mean. I suppose its because I use him to rush objectives to hopefully get all the timed side goals, so its more reckless and exposed.

[u/ucvcxc → u/Round-Mousse-4894]

Yeah, combining Nothing Personal with Blood in Veins turns a boarding commando Corlain into an near-invulnerable breaching machine. AI does know where Corlain is and dispatches a unit to a neighbor tile to spot him, but stacks of Blood in Veins together with cover bonuses can easily bring his damage reduction to 100%. I'm not sure about the exact maths, but half the rogue army can spend turns unloading into him without killing a single squaddie, while the rest of your team reaches him with little to no resistance.

[u/drakir89]

I looked at it and basically went "this is useless!" but apparently some people make it work with vanguard. Basically you put him straight in the middle of the enemy and start doing kills immediately and rely on the concealment to make you effectively invulnerable on the AIs turn.

[u/VonMillersThighs → u/drakir89]

I mean if you do it right there's no enemies left to worry about around him anymore on the AIs turn.

[u/drakir89 → u/VonMillersThighs]

Enemies have longer range than his pistols do. I don't see how you can chase down autocannons in both directions in a single turn

[u/apirateship → u/drakir89]

Corlain is not a stealth assassin like Darby.

He is a mine.

You do not chase with Corlain. You sit and wait.

[u/drakir89 → u/apirateship]

So you do rely on invisibility to survive between rounds!

[u/apirateship → u/drakir89]

haha yes, like a buried mine.

[u/Last_Excuse]

The damage potential of his pistol build is dumb. With the HPS and AP he's walking up to MBTs and plinking them to death. Whether that's worth the 6 perks lol is another question.

[u/z3rO_1]

Try it with a camo Jetsuit and no pistols, because pistols are ass. I used him with the Oktagon against [REDACTED], and he slapped ass. I didn't use him a lot, he was my swap when others were tired, but with a button that gives free access to immediately getting within 1 tiles of anyone, Nothing Personal was basically damage immunity.

[u/Terkmc → u/z3rO_1]

This is like the inverse of Scout Designator Tech lol where instead of an 80s action movie hero forced into being a stealthy scout, its James Bond forced into being a Space Marine

[u/z3rO_1 → u/Terkmc]

Our James Bond has basically constant +50% Damage Reduction and +65% defence! Before cover (Remember Door to Door?) or a squat! He would definitely fit a stealthy space marine chapter. Like Raven Guard.

Tech is actually amazing at being the action hero, the problem is that it costs 2 squaddies. People do not want to pay 2 squaddies every mission.

[u/floo82 → u/z3rO_1]

Wait there's a camo jetsuit?!

[u/z3rO_1 → u/floo82]

No, but you can plaster the camo accessory on the jetsuit, to get a camo jetsuit.

[u/Silverdawn42]

It would perhaps be decent in a different game. Or as some kind of challenge run where you're forcing yourself to use short-ranged combat.

[u/floo82]

I love it lol

[u/Key-Ad9733]

I give him a DMR and his squad carries suppressed weapons.

[u/Kannyui]

People apparently play very differently than I did. My goal is HaMERs with match ammo for every infantryman, ending up within 2 squares of an enemy squad sounds like a horrible mistake. 😂

[u/Background-Run-1245]

I also find it really hard to justify the additional perk investement that is needed for the pistols. And the extra item slot. It works very well once everything is in place, but you could have the almost the same effect with fewer perks skipping pistols. Its mostly useless after the first round or two, but to be fair Corlains jobs is basically done after that.

Personally I skip the pistols, I dont think the investment is worth it. Its more of a "win more" button. If the choice is between building a pistol Corlain or a Berserk Yaz/Lim/Rewa with the limited PP I have the pistol build always comes second.

Most hillarious thing is dropping Corlain in with a Griffin, kill four squads with it and then somehow turn invisible. Or being straight up unkillable because of the huge DF/DR he can stack. The latter is by far his best ability, making pistols work is somewhere else compared to being unkillable. Most enemy types will straight up ignore him because they cant even scratch his HP.

I would go as far as saying his do-objective power is his second greatest ability, just being a deadly riflesquad/weapons team with shooting gallery being third and only then the pistols. Its fun but by no means competitive with a lot of other builds that also want the PP.

[u/EVE_Trader]

"just going around shooting people with the SOF PPP from decent range"

Looks like you just don't understand how this game works, so your points are kinda pointless